Could "Bryzo" go on waivers a third time?

[brelic]

if he ends the season with 60 starts and 20 of them were terrible, then blast away. right now, with 23 starts, the run of 5 bad games are pulling his numbers way down.

besides, what do you mean "ignore"? you can freak out all you want about what ever you want. you aren't going to make a desicion on what to do with him or his contract, so you can take whatever point of view you'd like. my point was if we are going to examine his stats at this point of the season, that one particular sting of bad starts are weighing way more heavily than they will by season's end.

to make my point more clear, if you remove that string of bad games from oct 15th through oct 27th, but leave the rest of his up-and-down play, he would have a 2.45gaa and a .914sv%. again, that is including the less-than-stellar starts he has had outside of those 5 games. that his how much those few games are influencing his to-date stats. i agree with you, he has not been great, not even close to worth his salary, BUT his play outside of that lost in the woods run has been adequate. by season's end, when those 5 games represent 8% of his starts instead of 25%, his numbers will be much closer to on-track with the rest of his career.

he was still a mistake we will be able to bitch about for just shy of the next decade, but you are allowing statistical anomolies to influence your arguement.

All good points I agree with. I'm just saying that even during the winning streak, he let in quite a few stinkers, and a game like yesterday is a prime example of where we needed our goaltender to be able to make a difference and keep us in the game. In no way am I blaming him for that loss, but only pointing out that Bryz has not done that for this team yet this year. He has had some very good games, like the Pens game the other night. But he hasn't had any great games, and none that he has flat out stolen for us.

We'll see how this all stacks up at the end of the year, but you'd think we would have seen that 'difference maker' aspect by now, no?

Maybe my opinion really is tainted by all those lost-in-the-woods games. All I know is that I don't feel that our goaltending has been upgraded.

Anyway, I'm kind of done talking about it because there's nothing we can do about it... it will not change for a long time.

[aziz]

We'll see how this all stacks up at the end of the year, but you'd think we would have seen that 'difference maker' aspect by now, no?

honestly, no. as i screamed over and over last may and june, bryzgalov is not one of those difference-maker goalies. a team can win in front of him, but he is not and never has been a goalie who wins games by himself. very very few goalies are. overall, with the exception of that slump, bryzgalov is being exactly the goalie i expected he would be. which is to say, he is above average but not a world beater, and needs the team in front of him to carry their weight. he will give up soft goals now and then, but will be steady enough to backstop a winning team.

like i said months ago, bobrovsky is the better goalie, and the team would have been far better off tapping him as the guy, and getting him a partner to lean on for the next season or two. the team didn't do that, and now we just have to deal with that reality. bryzgalov is not an obsticle the team will have to overcome, but he is not a reason they will be successful, either. his impact will ultimately be neutral. outside of the cap problems his contract has and will represent.

[Vanflyer]

e is above average but not a world beater, and needs the team in front of him to carry their weight. he will give up soft goals now and then, but will be steady enough to backstop a winning team.

My only problem is how is that any better than what we already had in Bobsky? In my mind, I had to think that Bobs was going to be able to take a step forward from his rookie year. That seems to me to be about the same as where we are now, yet we would not have a 9 year albatross / 5.5m per year cap hit hanging around our necks. Heck, maybe we could have even got Vokoun on the cheap for a couple of years- whom I think would have been more than adequate platoon goalie to help nurture Bobs along.

There are a couple of things that really bother me about Bryz. First- his completely nutty personality. To me he is a flake. I know many goalies are flakes as it is the nature of the position, but Byrz seems to be the poster child for goalie flake.

Secondly- Bryz and Bob are not close what-so-ever. In one article I read (either on Bryz or Bobs), the question was posed to the affect of how is their relationship (goalies) and the response was "fine- we don't talk much".

[aziz]

@Vanflyer

hey, i agree completely. from the day the "we should get bryzgalov" talk started last april, i've shouted at anyone who would listen that bob is at least as good right now, and is likely to be far better in short order. in a perfect world, the flyers would have some way to undo bryzgalov's contract and bob would start 4 of 5 games the rest of the way. it isn't a perfect world, though. snider had to appease the masses by addressing laviolette's goalie mismanagement in the most splash-tastic way, and here we are stuck with the flyer's second best goalie as the starter for the next 8 seasons. my pro-brzgalov posts are only to say that he isn't going to be the reason the flyers do poorly. he also isn't going to be the reason the flyers do well, and you really would hope for more than that for the cash he is making.

[brelic]

honestly, no. as i screamed over and over last may and june, bryzgalov is not one of those difference-maker goalies. a team can win in front of him, but he is not and never has been a goalie who wins games by himself. very very few goalies are. overall, with the exception of that slump, bryzgalov is being exactly the goalie i expected he would be. which is to say, he is above average but not a world beater, and needs the team in front of him to carry their weight. he will give up soft goals now and then, but will be steady enough to backstop a winning team.

like i said months ago, bobrovsky is the better goalie, and the team would have been far better off tapping him as the guy, and getting him a partner to lean on for the next season or two. the team didn't do that, and now we just have to deal with that reality. bryzgalov is not an obsticle the team will have to overcome, but he is not a reason they will be successful, either. his impact will ultimately be neutral. outside of the cap problems his contract has and will represent.

I rarely saw Bryz play before he was in Philly, so numbers were the only thing I could go on, and he had excellent numbers. But if what you say is true, how does the scouting staff not pick up on this? I mean, maybe say to Homer "Look, I know the old guy basically told you to get Bryz, but don't do 9 years, you'll regret it... do 2-3 and leave it at that. If he won't sign, move on because he's not that type of goalie."

Just seems like an important detail, you know?

[flyercanuck]

also keep in mind out in AZ that team preached D all the time. Lavy system is sort of a run and gun type offensive type style. so you will see allot more odd man rushes vs the flyers and 2 on 1's down low

Sure, but that doesn't explain a 2nd year goalie, and just about every other one in the NHL having better stats than our 51 million dollar man.

[brelic]

@Vanflyer

hey, i agree completely. from the day the "we should get bryzgalov" talk started last april, i've shouted at anyone who would listen that bob is at least as good right now, and is likely to be far better in short order. in a perfect world, the flyers would have some way to undo bryzgalov's contract and bob would start 4 of 5 games the rest of the way. it isn't a perfect world, though. snider had to appease the masses by addressing laviolette's goalie mismanagement in the most splash-tastic way, and here we are stuck with the flyer's second best goalie as the starter for the next 8 seasons. my pro-brzgalov posts are only to say that he isn't going to be the reason the flyers do poorly. he also isn't going to be the reason the flyers do well, and you really would hope for more than that for the cash he is making.

To be fair, Bob has not shown so far to be a clear cut better goalie. His .908 (25th) and 2.72 (27th) are nothing to write home about. Who knows how he would be as the starter.... would he be the Bob we saw early last year? Or the one who started to fade toward the end of the year?

[aziz]

But if what you say is true, how does the scouting staff not pick up on this?

my opinion? bryzgalov was the goalie the hockey media had tapped as the best available goalie last summer, and the flyers felt they had to make the most immediately impressive move they could. the point was, as bak's sig will attest, to maximize the PR spin on the flyers finally signing a #1 goalie.

as to the term, the ultra-narrow focus the flyers had on bryzgalov as the only guy who would net them the headlines they wanted forced them to trade for his rights before his contract expired. once they'd done that, they were behind the 8 ball, as they'd already spent resources to get him. under no circumstances could they let him go UFA (more bad flyer goalie buzz), so they were at his mercy in negotiations. he wanted to be the highest paid goalie in the league, so they had to make him the highest paid goalie in the league. the only way to make that even vaguely affordable was to stretch the term out. in case you didn't realize, bryzgalov is making $10mil this season. he wanted it, the flyers had to give it to him. professional scouting didn't enter into it. the point was to appease the amature scouts who paid for season tickets.

[Vanflyer]

that he isn't going to be the reason the flyers do poorly. he also isn't going to be the reason the flyers do well, and you really would hope for more than that for the cash he is making.

agreed. The thing is that everyone wanted a goalie that would steal us 3-4 games during the regular season and rise to the next level in the playoffs. Its clear that Bryz is not that guy (at least on the games witnessed thus far).

[aziz]

To be fair, Bob has not shown so far to be a clear cut better goalie. His .908 (25th) and 2.72 (27th) are nothing to write home about. Who knows how he would be as the starter.... would he be the Bob we saw early last year? Or the one who started to fade toward the end of the year?

you're right, it's just my opinion. he has been limited to spot starts and relief apearances this season, and that is a far harder situation to excel in. imo, if he were to start 5 straight, we'd see a very high level of play. like i said, just my opinion, though.

[brelic]

my opinion? bryzgalov was the goalie the hockey media had tapped as the best available goalie last summer, and the flyers felt they had to make the most immediately impressive move they could. the point was, as bak's sig will attest, to maximize the PR spin on the flyers finally signing a #1 goalie.

as to the term, the ultra-narrow focus the flyers had on bryzgalov as the only guy who would net them the headlines they wanted forced them to trade for his rights before his contract expired. once they'd done that, they were behind the 8 ball, as they'd already spent resources to get him. under no circumstances could they let him go UFA (more bad flyer goalie buzz), so they were at his mercy in negotiations. he wanted to be the highest paid goalie in the league, so they had to make him the highest paid goalie in the league. the only way to make that even vaguely affordable was to stretch the term out. in case you didn't realize, bryzgalov is making $10mil this season. he wanted it, the flyers had to give it to him. professional scouting didn't enter into it. the point was to appease the amature scouts who paid for season tickets.

Yeah, I know he's making $10M this year, which makes the robbery even more outrageous

In any case, I agree that Snider basically handcuffed his GM and all negotiating leverage with his public comments, but at the end of the day, the Flyers could have gone after Vokoun, whose numbers are as good or better than Bryz over the past 5-6 years. Granted, he's older, but he played on a shitty Florida team and put up good numbers. Now, on a stacked Washington team, he has the worst numbers of his career. Probably wouldn't have been any different here.

But, you're right.. the moment they traded for his rights, Team Bryz had Homer by the balls. Sure, it was only a 2nd round pick, but the PR hit would have been greater.

[Vanflyer]

Now, on a stacked Washington team, he has the worst numbers of his career. Probably wouldn't have been any different here.

Yeah, but that is also on a Washington team that

a) quit on its coach

B) plays as a group of individuals instead of as a team

I guess at the end of the day, what could 1.5M risk for one year have hurt for Vokoun. It would have been PERFECT to try and give Bobs the reigns.

[flyercanuck]

Yeah, I know he's making $10M this year, which makes the robbery even more outrageous

In any case, I agree that Snider basically handcuffed his GM and all negotiating leverage with his public comments, but at the end of the day, the Flyers could have gone after Vokoun, whose numbers are as good or better than Bryz over the past 5-6 years. Granted, he's older, but he played on a shitty Florida team and put up good numbers. Now, on a stacked Washington team, he has the worst numbers of his career. Probably wouldn't have been any different here.

But, you're right.. the moment they traded for his rights, Team Bryz had Homer by the balls. Sure, it was only a 2nd round pick, but the PR hit would have been greater.

You mean as opposed to having a bum signed for 9 years and taking up 10% of your capspace?

[flyercanuck]

Yeah, but that is also on a Washington team that

a) quit on its coach

B) plays as a group of individuals instead of as a team

I guess at the end of the day, what could 1.5M risk for one year have hurt for Vokoun. It would have been PERFECT to try and give Bobs the reigns.

We have a BINGO! here.

[Spinorama]

Don't worry, be happy!

wasn't that Bryz's quote from 24/7?

[OH1FlyersFan]

but us diehard flyers fans expect better from someone taking up 10% of the cap

That's exactly the point. If it wasn't the fact he has this huge contract, over a huge number of years, that he's being paid as much as he is to be as good as he isn't, then it's no big deal. He's playing like a back up goalie, not the starter he was supposed to be, not the "star" his contract reflects. I'm fine with this guy as a solid #2, but not fine at all paying him what he's getting to be the number one guy with the stats he's putting up. It's embarrassing. Maybe he'll get himself sorted out over time, but come on, he's supposed to already be there. He doesn't merit cutting any slack to at this point. Call it doom or gloom or whatever. That's crap. I call it just being able to meet appropriately set expectations. Fail.

Edited December 19, 2011 by OH1FlyersFan

[OH1FlyersFan]

Breez goes something like 9-1-1 in recent games, lays an egg, now should be put on waivers? What have you done for me lately? They are battling for 1st place in the East, a point or two out of tops in the league and people want to see what Leighton can do?

My concern is that as soon as he goes up against a legitimate contender, this is what happens. Actually, My concern is for the entire team. Let's look at just the last five games.....Bryz's wins came against Washington, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo. Washington and Tampa Bay have been weak lately. Buffalo ain't all the hot now either. Decent win against Pittsburgh but even they are sitting at 3rd in the Atlantic now. And the one loss was against a really good Boston team. And he's given up 15 goals in those five games. I'm not saying put him on waivers, necessarily, but he's not inspiring confidence. Even in his 9-1-1 span. The 9 wins are great, I'll take a win even if we give up 10 goals to get it, but there's a fragility there, just under the surface, that his recent record is hiding and when it comes to playing the really good teams, when it counts, it's going to get exposed. Just like it did against Boston. His losses to Montreal and Winnipeg didn't help much either. And I understand the whole shooting match doesn't rest on just his shoulders alone. It is a team effort, but he's the guy making the big bucks. He's our last line of defense.

[Irishjim]

That's exactly the point. If it wasn't the fact he has this huge contract, over a huge number of years, that he's being paid as much as he is to be as good as he isn't, then it's no big deal. He's playing like a back up goalie, not the starter he was supposed to be, not the "star" his contract reflects. I'm fine with this guy as a solid #2, but not fine at all paying him what he's getting to be the number one guy with the stats he's putting up. It's embarrassing. Maybe he'll get himself sorted out over time, but come on, he's supposed to already be there. He doesn't merit cutting any slack to at this point. Call it doom or gloom or whatever. That's crap. I call it just being able to meet appropriately set expectations. Fail.

thank you, you and i are on the same page.

[wcflyer]

My concern is that as soon as he goes up against a legitimate contender, this is what happens. Actually, My concern is for the entire team. Let's look at just the last five games.....Bryz's wins came against Washington, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo. Washington and Tampa Bay have been weak lately. Buffalo ain't all the hot now either. Decent win against Pittsburgh but even they are sitting at 3rd in the Atlantic now. And the one loss was against a really good Boston team. And he's given up 15 goals in those five games. I'm not saying put him on waivers, necessarily, but he's not inspiring confidence. Even in his 9-1-1 span. The 9 wins are great, I'll take a win even if we give up 10 goals to get it, but there's a fragility there, just under the surface, that his recent record is hiding and when it comes to playing the really good teams, when it counts, it's going to get exposed. Just like it did against Boston. His losses to Montreal and Winnipeg didn't help much either. And I understand the whole shooting match doesn't rest on just his shoulders alone. It is a team effort, but he's the guy making the big bucks. He's our last line of defense.

The only goalie not being exposed to anyone right now is Tim Thomas, other than that every goalie has their weakness. We have won 7 in a row against teams we should have beat w/o our best dman, not many teams can do that. We lost to Boston w/o Giroux and Pronger, it would definately be a different story if they were in there. We have been exposed, which is a good thing because I don't think Homer will go with 2 rookie dman and a 4th line of rookies for a p/o run. I think Ed Snider is getting a little antsy for a cup. We are a little head of pace at this time last year with better goaltending. Nothing against the rookies who are doing a great job so far, but I worry more about them in the long run than I do Bryz.

[flyercanuck]

@wcflyer

Maybe the only goalie not being exposed is Thomas, but our goalie is being exposed worse than almost every other goalie in the league. It's not like he's the 10th best but we expect more. He's 65th. Without looking it up, I'm going to guess this is the worst goaltender statistically we've ever had.

Yes we're still winning, but it's because we're the highest scoring team in the league. And Bryz' bad goaltending and horrible puckhandling skills have had just about zero to do with that. Will he come around? God, I hope so. I thought it might take him a few games, but not 30. I mean I never thought he was worth his contract for one second, but I sure wasn't expecting a worse version of Michael Leighton. And Pronger and Giroux aren't enough to beat Boston. It may have made it less of a beating.

Snider is antsy for a cup? Great. He's the reason we're in this mess with the goalie. What's next, we sign Hal Gill to a 10 year $50 million NMC?

Edited December 19, 2011 by flyercanuck

[canoli]

@wcflyer

Snider is antsy for a cup? Great. He's the reason we're in this mess with the goalie. What's next, we sign Hal Gill to a 10 year $50 million NMC?

No, he'll will wait till Lidstrom announces he's hanging em up, then he'll coax him back for 3 more years with the promise of $9.5 mil per. We'll gut our platoon of young forwards to make room for him - no problem.

The one saving grace is that Nik Lidstrom won't be bought for any price once he says he's done...so we'll be spared. Ed will immediately call Scott Niedermeyer and offer the same deal.

[canoli]

In all seriousness, we better start playing Bryzgalov every damn night. He obviously hasn't learned how to "cool down" even for 1 lousy game. Playing him excessively in the regular season is part of the reason why his PO numbers suck - but oh well, too bad. We just have to live with it. For 9 fkng years...because it appears Bryz will turn in crap performances after every game off.

To be fair, Saturday's game was about as "setup" at they come for failure and even the soft goals are Team Failures. The Flyers had been on the road and winning, playing great. They come home for one day for an afternoon game - against the best team (the best goalie) in the NHL. A lopsided loss wasn't very surprising. Embarrassing but not surprising.

[flyercanuck]

I actually thought we might lose to Montreal. We were "due". So it didn't come as a surprise we got throttled by Boston. We were overdue for a loss. We're injury riddled. And they're a better team. The big difference being Chara and Thomas. We've got an answer to just about anything else they can throw at us, but nothing for those two.

[xganarchy]

wow, reading some of these posts you might think we haven't won in 10 games. I'm ecstatic being in the position we're at right now, I was ready to write this entire season off while the new kids got adjusted. But we're COMPETING here! We're right there with the top teams, surprisingly. We're more of a run and gun type team so far this season, and yeah we're going to have some defensive breakdowns.

[flyercanuck]

@xganarchy

I'm thrilled with how the forwards are playing. The kids have been an absolute bonus. Our D has been good and bad. But considering Pronger is out, and we've been using 2 rookies back there, I have no complaint. The one area that was supposed to be our strength however, has been our weakness. Yes we've been winning games in spite of our latest bi-polar goaler, but it doesn't excuse him for not earning his pay. The good thing is, he's taken a lot of heat off JVRs underwhelming performance.