Polaris922 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 This is the same franchise that has teetered on bankruptcy not once, but twice, right?Some players like playing in markets where they can walk about after a game unnoticed. I've heard many times that Nashville is one of those places. Other players like to play where the fans are nuts about hockey. I've heard that hundreds of times about Philly. I don't live in Philly and am not being arrogant about it. Realistic is more like.Toronto has the most valuable franchise in hockey. Is it because it has the biggest population? Hardly. It just has crazy diehard fans.Again bankruptcy is more about the number of fans than how well the fans follow the team. Yes the Pens were teetering on bankruptcy... and Lemieux saved it more than anybody. Does that mean the fans are somehow worse? Not at all... it means there aren't six million of us spending eighteen dollars each. There are 1 million of us and we have to do more with less. I've personally spent thousands each and every year for my franchise. Does that make me a worse fan because there aren't five million more able to do the same? And if memory serves our much smaller market has more than double the consecutive sellout record of your die hard crazy Flyers following does... so maybe Nashville doesn't have a huge following that allows its team to get rich on even the $37 per fan they spend... it doesn't mean that hockey doesn't matter, or that their fans are any less fanatic than yours... there are just a lot fewer of them. You're the fifth largest city in the country... Nashville is 26th... Pittsburgh is 61st.Forbes magazine ranks Pittsburgh the NHLs best fans... that surprises me. http://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2012/11/28/the-nhls-best-and-worst-fans/Your argument was about whether hockey matters there. I'd say for the simple fact that they ponied up the money to stop you from pilfering Weber that it does. You still hate swallowing that pill... but it's medicine and you have to take it. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 @Polaris922 Trust me, nobody is questioning your loyalty here Polaris, and my city has about 140,000 people. As much as I like Weber, that contract was ridiculous. I have no problem whatsoever swallowing that pill. I actually think Nashville may have been a little foolish to match, but kind of had to. And I'll stand by my opinion that hockey matters a heck of a lot more in Philly than it does in Nashville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 @flyercanuckI just think its a disservice to the true hockey fans in Nashville that are just like you and me who love their teams to say it doesn't matter. I think there are a lot of them, and they often fall middle of the road in polls about fan loyalty. I suppose I've been afraid to lose my team enough to take exception to it, and stand up for the little guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 @Polaris922\ Believe me I know what it's like cheering for something (Flyers) in an area where it's not the most popular thing around. I'm sure Nashville has some great hockey fans. But I really don't consider it a great hockey market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 So who's going to win the Norris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 @B21 Weber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I'm sticking with Letang. That's my honest opinion of who is the best overall defenseman in the league right now. Not homerism, as I made evident by saying I'd put Tavares for the Hart over Crosby. I just feel Letang brings more all around to the table than any other D man right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 @B21Weber?Nah. 28 points in 48 games. -2. Don't care who he plays with, the numbers have to be better. Fair or unfair. The award is for the best all-around defencemen so point production should be a big part of things.I'm good with either Suter or Letang. Really no clear cut favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Nah. 28 points in 48 games. -2. Don't care who he plays with, the numbers have to be better. Fair or unfair. The award is for the best all-around defencemen so point production should be a big part of things.I'm good with either Suter or Letang. Really no clear cut favorite.Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 @hf101 "Also scored 38 points while playing in all 48 games of the season. Subban improved his defensive play by by improving from a -8 last season to a +12 this year helping Montreal finish first in the Northeast division from last place in the East last season." Not that it changes things to much, but P.K sat out the first 6 games of the season in a contract dispute. So he piled up 38 pts while playing in 42 games. He's only going to get better as he matures. A lot of the selfish aspects of his game seemed to fall to the wayside. He was much more responible last season, more of a team player....even a little less mouthing off to opponents, I think he's starting to respect the game a bit more. If he does not win this year, he will win one in the near future. On offense, he's the most dynamic force in the league when combining shot, passing and skating. I don't agree with Suter getting the nod over Duncan Keith either, Duncan does not get enough respect in this league...I'd take him any day over Suter. Duncan is a star in all 3 zones, and his on ice vision puts Suter to shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Nah. 28 points in 48 games. -2. Don't care who he plays with, the numbers have to be better. Fair or unfair. The award is for the best all-around defencemen so point production should be a big part of things.I'm good with either Suter or Letang. Really no clear cut favorite. Put Weber on a pp with Crosby Malkin and Iginla and put Letang out there with the plumbers from Nashville. You don't think there's a huge swing? Weber only had 28 points, but the point you're missing is, HE WAS THE TEAMS LEADER IN POINTS!!! The top scoring winger on the Preds had 16 points! Defensively and physically Weber wins hands down. But the Norris has become who scores more, which is a joke. Especially in a situation like this where one team is so inferior offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Put Weber on a pp with Crosby Malkin and Iginla and put Letang out there with the plumbers from Nashville. You don't think there's a huge swing? Weber only had 28 points, but the point you're missing is, HE WAS THE TEAMS LEADER IN POINTS!!! The top scoring winger on the Preds had 16 points!Defensively and physically Weber wins hands down. But the Norris has become who scores more, which is a joke. Especially in a situation like this where one team is so inferior offensively.You mean the same PP that usually struggles when Letang is not on it? Not disagreeing about what the award has become. But it's going on 20+ years now where it's clear there needs to be pretty decent offensive output to be considered along with the +/-. It is what it is and "what it is" makes Letang a more deserving candidate this year over Weber. Also, Weber was +21 last year with basically the same supporitng cast...sans Suter. Maybe Weber's success was due in part to having another Norris candidate play along side him?If Lidstrom (or any D-Man) isn't scoring, he's not winning. Lidstrom won 6 of 7 years from 00-01 to 07-08. Didn't win in 03-04. Why? Point total dropped to 38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Sure Suters loss is going to take away from Webers output. He's the only other offence that team had going. Now it's down to Weber. Heck, give him Crosby OR Malkin OR Iginla and he'd have better numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Sure Suters loss is going to take away from Webers output. He's the only other offence that team had going. Now it's down to Weber. Heck, give him Crosby OR Malkin OR Iginla and he'd have better numbers.Better, yes. Norris-worthy? Debateable. Very debateable this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) @B21Crosby, by himself, in another season where he was injured almost outscored Nashvilles top 3 centers. If you don't think having that, or NOT having that, AND Malkin is a huge impact on the points those guys put up, I guess there's no further point discussing this. Think Hartnell has a chance of scoring 37, or Neal of scoring 40 playing on a line with Legwand and Butler?. That's some offensive firepower there. Edited June 1, 2013 by flyercanuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 @B21Crosby, by himself, in another season where he was injured almost outscored Nashvilles top 3 centers. If you don't think having that, or NOT having that, AND Malkin is a huge impact on the points those guys put up, I guess there's no further point discussing this.Think Hartnell has a chance of scoring 37, or Neal of scoring 40 playing on a line with Legwand and Butler?. That's some offensive firepower there.Fine. Have it your way. No one who plays with Crosby (the same Crosby who has missed about 50% of the Pens games the last three seasons) can ever be nominated for an award because...well...it's all Crosby...even when he's not playing. Same three season where Letang has blossomed....just coincidence.We'll give the award to the guy who lost his Norris-nominated partner and ended up a -2 while that Norris-nominated partner managed to maintain his numbers with a team that is a shade better than Nashville.I'm not even knocking Weber...just not at all deserving to be considered this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I have to add....what Vezina-nominated (and has finsihed in the top 5 for the Hart) net minder was there to bail out Letang? If that is the argument against Letang (playing w/ Crosby) it works the same way for Weber (playing w/ Rinne). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I have to add....what Vezina-nominated (and has finsihed in the top 5 for the Hart) net minder was there to bail out Letang? If that is the argument against Letang (playing w/ Crosby) it works the same way for Weber (playing w/ Rinne). That's a fair point. I was just responding to your knock on Webers point production and plus minus. Webers team is terrible at scoring and Letang has arguably the two best players in the world on his team. Weber doesn't have another guy in the top 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Weber just stunk this year. He was pretty lost without Suter. He really doesn't belong in consideration for this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Weber just stunk this year. He was pretty lost with nobody else on his team. He really doesn't belong in consideration for this year. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Weber just stunk this year. He was pretty lost with nobody else on his team. It was as though he were playing for the Flyers. He really doesn't belong in consideration for this year. Fixed.Fixed again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Weber just stunk this year. He was pretty lost with nobody else on his team. It was as though he was playing for the Flyers. It certainly wasn't like playing on the ref/league assisted Penguins He really doesn't belong in consideration for this year.Fixed.Fixed again. Annnd yet again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Weber just stunk this year. He was pretty lost with nobody else on his team. It was as though he was playing for the Flyers. It certainly wasn't like playing on the ref/league assisted Penguins... or the even more ref/league assisted Cryers... He really doesn't belong in consideration for this year.Fixed.Fixed again. Annnd yet again!And one more time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Weber just stunk this year. He was pretty lost with nobody else on his team. It was as though he was playing for the Flyers. It certainly wasn't like playing on the ref/league assisted Penguins... or the even more ref/league assisted Cryers... He really doesn't belong in consideration for this year.But still looked way better than Letang does against the BruinsFixed.Fixed again.Annnd yet again!And one more time!Oh what the heck....another! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 This had to be one of the closest in voting. Congrats to Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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