Norris Trophy Finalists - Winner Subban

[hf101]

1. Kris Letang

Playing an average of over 25 minutes a game Letang scored 38 points and was a +16 in 35 games playing in all aspects of the game helping the Penguins lead the Eastern Conference.

2. P K Subban

Also scored 38 points while playing in all 48 games of the season. Subban improved his defensive play by by improving from a -8 last season to a +12 this year helping Montreal finish first in the Northeast division from last place in the East last season.

3. Ryan Suter

In his first year with the Wild Suter lead the Wild to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years. He played more minutes than any other defenseman in the league. Suter while typically known as a defensive defensman finished third in points with 32.

[yave1964]

Gotta be Suter, no offense against Letang, but he is an offensive defensemen without the two way dimension of Suter. Subban carried his team on his back and would be my second place pick.

[Polaris922]

Letang by a long shot. Tied for the lead in points in ten less games, better plus/minus than the other two combined. Hell Suter was 236th in the league at a measly +2. How is that "leading" a team anywhere. Letang is a better defensive player than Suter. His skating and speed put him head and shoulders above most other players. The only knock on him is his size, but we've seen many great defenseman play positionally and get the job done.

To me it comes down to Subban and Letang... And Letang gets the edge by performing better offensively and defensively. The Pens had more goals per game and gave up less goals per game than the Habs.

As a side note in the Playoffs Letang is 1G 2A +1... Subban is 0G 2A -1 with a whopping 27 PIM.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Polaris922

[hf101]

My vote goes to Letang. I don't even think this decision is even close.

[mojo1917]

I give the nod to the "Breck Girl" Kris Letang, he's had a monster of a season.

Suter had a fine year and deserves the nomination he had the disadvantage of playing on a team that struggled to score points after some injuries, especially after Heatly's season ended.

Subban will have to be so much better than everyone else for me to consider him for the award based on his attitude.

[flyercanuck]

The Norris has gone from best defenceman to defenceman with most points. The Selke has gone from best defensive forward to player with most points who comes back over center. The Hart has gone from most valuable player on his team to who didn't win it on the Pens last year, Crosby or Malkin. The Calder is Best first year player NOT on the Flyers. Coach of the year goes to who gets fired next year. GM of the year goes to who spent the most money least foolishly.

[Polaris922]

The Norris has gone from best defenceman to defenceman with most points. The Selke has gone from best defensive forward to player with most points who comes back over center. The Hart has gone from most valuable player on his team to who didn't win it on the Pens last year, Crosby or Malkin. The Calder is Best first year player NOT on the Flyers. Coach of the year goes to who gets fired next year. GM of the year goes to who spent the most money least foolishly.

Who do you think is best defenseman? Letang shuts them down with the best of them. You disagree?

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Do I disagree that Letang shuts them down with the best of them? Ya. He's very talented (as is Subban, Karlsson, Green etc) It's just my opinion that the best defenceman should be the best DEFENCEman, not offensive defenceman. I'll take Shea Weber in my end all day every day over those guys. And I've been saying this for well over a decade.

Is it a level playing field if it's about points when Letang plays with Crosby, Malkin, Iginla etc Green plays with Ovechkin while a guy like Weber plays with....ok, I can't name anyone. :blink:

[Polaris922]

@flyercanuck

You have to admit Weber didn't have a very good year. His goal production was good at 9... but nothing else, including his defense, seemed to stand out this year. He was minus 2 for the year and lead his team to a 16 - 23 - 9 record. Despite having one of the best goaltenders in the league they were 20th in goals against. He quarterbacked the 17th PP in the league, and anchored the second WORST penalty kill in the league. I love Weber as a defenseman, and normally I would argue he belongs on that list as well... but frankly, he stunk this season. Losing Suter had a huge impact on his game. He was atrocious the first half of this season.

If you watched Letang regularly, you would see he DOES shut them down with the best of them. He's not the physically punishing defenseman many people love, but he is one of the best skating and positionally sound defensemen the league has to offer. And yes, I would take him over Weber if I had to choose between the two for my lineup.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Polaris922

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Let's imagine Weber on the team with 3 players who score more goals than the entire nashville team, and swap Letang to the Preds and lets see how great each of them are. I know you can't do that, but it's a heck of a lot easier to put up great numbers playing with the Pens squad than playing with a bunch of nobodies in Nashville.

Losing Suter had an influence on his game. Having a bunch of plumbers as teammates had an influence on his game. Having Nashville match his offersheet had an influence on his game. He probably thought he was finally going to play hockey somewhere that mattered.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Let's imagine Weber on the team with 3 players who score more goals than the entire nashville team, and swap Letang to the Preds and lets see how great each of them are. I know you can't do that, but it's a heck of a lot easier to put up great numbers playing with the Pens squad than playing with a bunch of nobodies in Nashville.

Losing Suter had an influence on his game. Having a bunch of plumbers as teammates had an influence on his game. Having Nashville match his offersheet had an influence on his game. He probably thought he was finally going to play hockey somewhere that mattered.

Somewhere that mattered?? Did the Flyers have a better start time on the course or something?

[mojo1917]

Somewhere that mattered?? Did the Flyers have a better start time on the course or something?

Oh please, there is no comparison twixt Nashville and Philadelphia as hockey cities. As an Southern expansion franchise Nash has been okay , hockey hasn't become lifes blood there like is in Philly.

[flyercanuck]

@mojo1917

Ya, I figured that comment coming from a fan of a team that borders on bankruptcy anytime the league doesn't serve them up the best player didn't deserve a response.

[Polaris922]

Just because you guys have a larger city doesn't mean Nashville isn't serious about hockey. In my experience fans in small markets are every bit the equals of fans in large markets. Sometimes even more fanatic Because that's what they have to do to keep their team alive. And highly doubt the franchise in Nashville takes their games or their season any less serious than your franchise did. I don't see any difference here in that both of them are on the golf course way too early for their fans. To think that Philadelphia is just a "better place" is just arrogant and ridiculous. The way I see it for at least the past 38 years Nashville has the same number Stanley Cups as Philadelphia. The high horse is dead.

[yave1964]

Norris if you count the playoffs has to be Brian Lashoff of the Wings, he single handedly won two games for the Ducks.....

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

The size of the city has nothing to do with it. If you don't think Philly matters more than Nashville when it comes to hockey I don't know what to tell you. There are plenty of people passionate about music in Philadelphia. Does that make it equally as important as Nashville in the music scene? Hell no.

Could I see the Preds moving?...sure. The Flyers? Ya right. When you look at the rock solid franchises in the NHL, Nashville is NOT one of them.

[doom88]

Remember when defensive play mattered? Apparently those days are long gone. Subban and Letang, hahahaha, yeah right.

Letang will win, but Suter is the better all around defenseman - and Suter actually is consistently competent in his own end.

[Polaris922]

@flyercanuck

My point is small markets have their fans too. I wouldn't be so quick to insult Nashville. They've had some recent success on their limited budget.

@doom88

You must not watch Letang much either. Suter best all around is laughable. Letang on the ice means .5 goals per game against less, and .2 more goals per game for the Pens. Thats a .7 goals shift in final scores. His absence hurts the win/loss record more than any other Penguin currently on the roster. And he averages over 25 minutes per game night in and night out. His plus 16 was eighth in the league with thirteen fewer games. Ahead of a lot of so called "defensive" defenseman. 14 ahead of Suter.

I seriously think you guys don't watch Letang. You either see his points or just dislike him enough to just assume he sucks at D. I'd take him over Suter or Subban any day of the week. And I'm a Suter fan.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Plus/Minus is statistically inaccurate.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Nashville is ranked 25th in value of franchise. There's a reason for that. The end.

[Polaris922]

Plus/Minus is statistically inaccurate.

Is it really?? If you're on the ice for more even strength goals for than against doesn't that say anything? I think it does. Is it the total judge? No... But it still paints a picture.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Nashville is ranked 25th in value of franchise. There's a reason for that. The end.

Yet their revenue per fan value is more than double the Flyers... Does that mean their fans are twice as fanatic? Twice as loyal? Maybe hockey matters twice as much to them?

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Ya, you can twist and spin it anyway you want. But when talk goes around of franchises moving, Nashville is one of the names that comes up. And Philly, who has the 2nd most valuable non-original six franchise, doesn't.

[Polaris922]

Again... so you have a huge city to support your teams. It still doesn't mean hockey doesn't matter in Nashville. Value is all about market size. Why else would a team who hasn't won a championship in so long have the 8th highest value in the league? Do you really think your management has been so stellar? Absolutely not. My Penguins host a small market.. but I'll gladly put the fans here against the fans from anywhere in supporting their franchise. Maybe we're a lot fewer, again because of the size of the city, but it doesn't mean it matters any less. The holier than thou attitude about the Flyers is unbecoming... and frankly with their lack of a recent championship, undeserved.

If you want to say you think Weber would prefer to play on a team with a more stable future, I'd not say a word, but to say where hockey matters is arrogant and unsupported at best.

[flyercanuck]

Again... so you have a huge city to support your teams. It still doesn't mean hockey doesn't matter in Nashville. Value is all about market size. Why else would a team who hasn't won a championship in so long have the 8th highest value in the league? Do you really think your management has been so stellar? Absolutely not. My Penguins host a small market.. but I'll gladly put the fans here against the fans from anywhere in supporting their franchise. Maybe we're a lot fewer, again because of the size of the city, but it doesn't mean it matters any less. The holier than thou attitude about the Flyers is unbecoming... and frankly with their lack of a recent championship, undeserved.

If you want to say you think Weber would prefer to play on a team with a more stable future, I'd not say a word, but to say where hockey matters is arrogant and unsupported at best.

This is the same franchise that has teetered on bankruptcy not once, but twice, right?

Some players like playing in markets where they can walk about after a game unnoticed. I've heard many times that Nashville is one of those places. Other players like to play where the fans are nuts about hockey. I've heard that hundreds of times about Philly. I don't live in Philly and am not being arrogant about it. Realistic is more like.

Toronto has the most valuable franchise in hockey. Is it because it has the biggest population? Hardly. It just has crazy diehard fans.