Buy Out Bryz Now - The St. Louis Plan

[JackStraw]

Remember that Read is a UFA after next year as well and they need to sign (RFA) Giroux and BSchenn (as well as Couturier if he's still here). Read may well be the odd man out in that equation regardless.

If they buy out Bryz after next season I would think that should be do-able, unless Read has a monster season. Which I don't expect. He's a good second line winger and I would hope he could be signed for an appropriate amount. If a team wants to pay him like a first line winger then good for them.

I guess I'm just not crazy about the idea of going into the season without at least the notion of a #1 goalie. Bryz at least gives you that. I don't see the Flyers being contenders next year and I'd rather see them fix one problem (defense) at a time than two. Although I'm probably in the minority I think Bryz gives you solid, if unspectacular, goaltending. I can live with that for one more year.

[radoran]

If they buy out Bryz after next season I would think that should be do-able, unless Read has a monster season. Which I don't expect. He's a good second line winger and I would hope he could be signed for an appropriate amount. If a team wants to pay him like a first line winger then good for them.

I guess I'm just not crazy about the idea of going into the season without at least the notion of a #1 goalie. Bryz at least gives you that. I don't see the Flyers being contenders next year and I'd rather see them fix one problem (defense) at a time than two. Although I'm probably in the minority I think Bryz gives you solid, if unspectacular, goaltending. I can live with that for one more year.

I've been resigned to that eventuality on board with that for a while. That said, I do think that a Halak could be a legit #1 and pretty much has been.

Just looking at the cap, however, capgeek has them at $6M above next year's cap rightnow (with Briere and Pronger). The Briere buyout just brings them into compliance (before LTIR). In 2015 they have about $35M already signed (eliminating Bryz and Briere) but only have six forwards, three defensemen (plus Pronger and Konan) and zero goaltenders signed. That's the cap they need to fit Giroux/BSchenn/Couturier/Read, replacements for Timonen and Meszaros (hopefully Gus/Gotstobehere can step up) and new goalies.

In that context, for me, Read is the most expendable asset that would return value.

[Polaris922]

I don't think Briere is a valued player right now. I think you're pretty much asking the Blues to take a boat anchor at this point in his career. If he were still worth having, his name wouldn't be popping up in every trade thread suggested since the mid-point of the season.

[radoran]

I don't think Briere is a valued player right now. I think you're pretty much asking the Blues to take a boat anchor at this point in his career. If he were still worth having, his name wouldn't be popping up in every trade thread suggested since the mid-point of the season.

Again, the major attraction for St. Louis wrt Briere is the cap space. They are not a cap heavy team. And Briere's "playoff success" could help a team that's had problems scoring in the postseason.

But, again, the question isn't "trade Briere" - as Briere has control over that - but the question of whether Halak c/sh/would be a target this offseason instead of next and what it would take to get him.

The thread's context is "Buy Out Bryz Now" - and you'd need to get a competent netminder to add to Mason to do that (IMO).

[JackStraw]

I've been resigned to that eventuality on board with that for a while. That said, I do think that a Halak could be a legit #1 and pretty much has been.

Just looking at the cap, however, capgeek has them at $6M above next year's cap rightnow (with Briere and Pronger). The Briere buyout just brings them into compliance (before LTIR). In 2015 they have about $35M already signed (eliminating Bryz and Briere) but only have six forwards, three defensemen (plus Pronger and Konan) and zero goaltenders signed. That's the cap they need to fit Giroux/BSchenn/Couturier/Read, replacements for Timonen and Meszaros (hopefully Gus/Gotstobehere can step up) and new goalies.

In that context, for me, Read is the most expendable asset that would return value.

I would prefer to trade Couturier since I don't really think there's a place for him on the team down the road anyway, and I think he would fetch a better return. Even if he's part of a package.

[OccamsRazor]

Taking Briere out of the equation - is Halak someone you would be interested in?

If with that you're telling me......bryz is not part of the flyers next year......i'm all ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please consider me in.

Edit:

And i'd imagine the loser of the goaltender battle between Halak and Mason....would be a huge trade chip before the deadline.

Edited May 13, 2013 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

I would prefer to trade Couturier since I don't really think there's a place for him on the team down the road anyway, and I think he would fetch a better return. Even if he's part of a package.

We seem to agree a lot. Are you sure you're not @ruxpin?

My only concern would be Read as a UFA just might fetch more than Couturier would (salary-wise). I think Couturier may have more trade value, especially with Malkin putting up 2 ppg in the playoffs (as opposed to when Couturier shut him down to 1.3 ppg )

I just think Read is "more" expendable than Couturier. Not a knock on either guy - I like them both.

[JackStraw]

We seem to agree a lot. Are you sure you're not @ruxpin?

My only concern would be Read as a UFA just might fetch more than Couturier would (salary-wise). I think Couturier may have more trade value, especially with Malkin putting up 2 ppg in the playoffs (as opposed to when Couturier shut him down to 1.3 ppg )

I just think Read is "more" expendable than Couturier. Not a knock on either guy - I like them both.

Short term, yeah, Read will probably get more. But if you keep Couts and somehow get him the opportunity to develop then he could cost $$$. So I'm not sure how I'd balance that. Read is so versatile and good at what he does that it would be hard to replace him, and if you did you'd probably end up paying more for a FA. Anyone can be traded of course (the Gretzky Rule) but I wouldn't be too happy trading Read for Halak when Halak might not be better than what we have already. Outside that one great playoff run with Montreal he's been good but nothing all that exciting imo.

PS: If I was ruxpin I would be you, which obviously I'm not. Reported.

Edited May 13, 2013 by JackStraw

[dilbert719]

Assuming Briere goes, is "something like" Briere/Read/11 for Shattenkirk/Halak worth it? Would Couturier/Read/11 get Halak/Shattenkirk/STL #1? Is that worth it?

Something like the first deal is definitely worth it. I'm almost violently opposed to the idea of trading Couturier, under any circumstances, so the second deal isn't, to me.

However, OccamsRazor had me thinking. Read's obviously got positive value. St. Louis would likely want at least a steady D presence if they're moving someone like Pietrangelo, who's clearly their best D. Maybe the deal to consider here is Coburn/Read/11 (or, if we can get away with it, next year's #1) for Pietrangelo/Halak. I don't think we get their first in any deal that returns Pietrangelo, but he's still the best fit in terms of finding someone who could step into Kimmo's shoes next offseason. Kimmo going, along with buyouts of Bryz and Briere, and trading Coburn/Read, would probably free up enough cap space to offer appropriately sized contracts to Giroux, Couturier, B. Schenn, Pietrangelo, Meszaros, and Halak/Mason, which would lock down a solid core for the foreseeable future. A defensive corps in 14-15 of Pietrangelo/Schenn, Meszaros/Grossmann, and Gustafsson/some combination of Manning/Lauridsen/reasonably priced vet FA would be solid for a good long time, Mason/Halak is quite a competent goalie tandem, and it'd let us keep practically the entire forward corps together.

[radoran]

You could throw Meszaros in instead of Coburn (I know people want to get rid of Coburn). Meszaros has an expiring contract. really depends on what STL is looking for.

I do think that Pietrangelo is something of a pipe dream, but why not shoot high and see what you hit?

St. Louis has assets to trade and a young, exciting team to add some pop to.

[radoran]

PS: If I was ruxpin I would be you, which obviously I'm not. Reported.

So, you're Seravalli then? (don't worry, I just reported myself)

[JackStraw]

So, you're Seravalli then? (don't worry, I just reported myself)

Then based on your earlier post, that would indicate that you are in fact, Seravalli. In which case you should not only be reported, but banned.

[radoran]

Then based on your earlier post, that would indicate that you are in fact, Seravalli. In which case you should not only be reported, but banned.

Again, I'm clearly not Seravalli.

For example: I reported something.

[Mad Dog]

Again, I'm clearly not Seravalli.

For example: I reported something.

Oh Seravalli still reports stuff. The substance of those reports is a whole different matter altogether.

[radoran]

Oh Seravalli still reports stuff. The substance of those reports is a whole different matter altogether.

There is "reporting" as in "writing in the paper" which is really just "reprinting"

Then there is "reporting" as in "researching a story" which would, for example, reveal the fallacy of a column asking "which" of Briere or Bryz would be bought out.

I meant the second one

[doom88]

If STL wants to talk I'd listen, but this stuff here sounds like dreaming.

[radoran]

If STL wants to talk I'd listen, but this stuff here sounds like dreaming.

Any trade talk, by definition, is dreaming...

I'd agree trying to solve address two major issues in one trade is probably stretching it, but we've seen bigger moves.

You don't think STL would be interested in moving either of their two goalies? Even with Elliott's "struggles" they still rode him in the playoffs.

I gotta think the Blues are looking to add scoring. And they have assets and depth in goal and on D.

[Phillygrump]

Taking Briere out of the equation - is Halak someone you would be interested in?

Absolutely.

Also, I know we want to hold on to our assets, but the odds of this franchise drafting a young defenseman that can be a cornerstone piece to a championship team is very slim. They just don't seem to scout that talent well.

I'd be willing to move a guy like Couturier or Schenn or Read in a package to get a young #1 defender. Its going to cost a kings ransom for one as well but that's the NHL I guess.

[Clarke2Leach]

The Blues depth chart at centre shows:

Backes

Jaden Schwartz

Sobotka

Andy McDonald

Steen and Berglund (I believe) can take regular turns in the middle. That ain't no great hell, right there.

If you want to offer them something they need, it had better include a centre. Schwartz has a bright future, but at 5'10, he's never going to be their #1. As much as I like Couturier, that might be your carrot (plus someone). The return better be a top pair d-man, though. If I could get Pietrangelo back, I would trade any centre except Giroux.

[radoran]

The Blues depth chart at centre shows:

Backes

Jaden Schwartz

Sobotka

Andy McDonald

Steen and Berglund (I believe) can take regular turns in the middle. That ain't no great hell, right there.

If you want to offer them something they need, it had better include a centre. Schwartz has a bright future, but at 5'10, he's never going to be their #1. As much as I like Couturier, that might be your carrot (plus someone). The return better be a top pair d-man, though. If I could get Pietrangelo back, I would trade any centre except Giroux.

AndyMac is a UFA, too.

That was part of the concept of sending "#1 C" Danny Briere - and a possibility that being an actual "#1 C" on a potential contender would be an encouragement to take the trade over the buy out.

I like Pietrangelo, but have a hard time seeing STL deal him. Thinking maybe a Shattenkirk? Does a Brayden Schenn get you Pietrangelo?

Spitballing.

[Clarke2Leach]

They'd be nuts to deal Pietrangelo, but I would think that any discussions would begin with B Schenn and a few more additions (top 4 d-man and a pick?). The Schenn brothers probably wouldn't be too far off if the Blues were interested in dealing.