Thanks for playing, Dan Bylsma...

[B21]

...but I think your shelf life as coach of the Pens has expired. It's not all your fault. But a big majority. No adjustments. No laying into the players from what I can see. You seemed more concerned (that most coaches) with playing little games about who would start in net, what the line up changes would be and who was hurting where. Sid is #2 behind you but we know he's not going anywhere. After that it is the veteran leadership that was supposed to come from guys like Orpik, Morrow and Iginla. All but Orpik will be back.

So this one is on you, Dan. Let's face it. If Shero didn't have the smarts to bring in Vokoun, you would have been golfing weeks ago.

I'll throw out my list of replacements worthy of discussion...

Guy Boucher

Alain Vigneault

Tony Granato

Doug Houda

Jaques Martin (gasp!)

[Polaris922]

...but I think your shelf life as coach of the Pens has expired. It's not all your fault. But a big majority. No adjustments. No laying into the players from what I can see. You seemed more concerned (that most coaches) with playing little games about who would start in net, what the line up changes would be and who was hurting where. Sid is #2 behind you but we know he's not going anywhere. After that it is the veteran leadership that was supposed to come from guys like Orpik, Morrow and Iginla. All but Orpik will be back.

So this one is on you, Dan. Let's face it. If Shero didn't have the smarts to bring in Vokoun, you would have been golfing weeks ago.

I'll throw out my list of replacements worthy of discussion...

Guy Boucher

Alain Vigneault

Tony Granato

Doug Houda

Jaques Martin (gasp!)

Granato would be my choice if it is done.

[yave1964]

I think Bylsma is a solid coach, top ten in the league at least. Coaches do have a shelf life and his might just be up

[mojo1917]

He might be too close to this group the way John Stevens was with Richards & Carter etc,. I also don't know if promoting an assistant from Dan's staff fixes what ails this group.

Boucher would stress defense first and while not as exciting as what ever coach Dan does, there is enough talent on the current roster to be a really effective counter punching team.

Did Vigneault really fail with that Canucks team? Or are the Sedins overrated ? He would be intriguing , not sure as a flyers fan I'd be too excited to see those guys replace Bylsma, whom I thought should have won the Jack Adams last year.

[mojo1917]

there was something missing on this version of the Pens, and it was the Jordan Staal line, here's what i remember from that cup team. whenever the opponent scored a goal , Bylsma would send Staal's line out and they would start buzzing; Cooke , Kennedy and Staal were instant momentum killers they would win the face off and cycle the **** out of the puck creating really good scoring chances. He would also often put them out right after the Pens would score and they would pin the puck deep and cycle the will out of the other teams answer to the Pens goal, then he would put Malkinstein's line or Crosby's line and in some desperate cases he'd double shift one of those guys and they would have extended offensive zone time courtesy of tired Defensmen and frustrated skill forwards.

There was nothing like that line or that combination of players on this version of the team.

Edited June 10, 2013 by mojo1917

[Polaris922]

there was something missing on this version of the Pens, and it was the Jordan Staal line, here's what i remember from that cup team. whenever the opponent scored a goal , Bylsma would send Staal's line out and they would start buzzing; Cooke , Kennedy and Staal were instant momentum killers they would win the face off and cycle the **** out of the puck creating really good scoring chances. He would also often put them out right after the Pens would score and they would pin the puck deep and cycle the will out of the other teams answer to the Pens goal, then he would put Malkinstein's line or Crosby's line and in some desperate cases he'd double shift one of those guys and they would have extended offensive zone time courtesy of tired Defensmen and frustrated skill forwards.

There was nothing like that line or that combination of players on this version of the team.

That was more a result of Bylsma's constant tinkering with line combinations. Everytime a line would start to gel he'd move something or swap someone out. It's disgusting to watch game in game out. There's just no need for it. Sutter proved himself to be more of a defensive centerman than Staal, and was pretty darn good at shutting down opposing top lines. And he did provide some scoring in the regular season as well. Just seemed no center had consistent linemates the entire playoffs.

[murraycraven]

Having an owner that basically was like Crosby's father for a number of years probably does not help either. Any Coach would be walking on egg shells around Crosby b/c heaven's forbid you lay into him or hold him accountable...

[B21]

Having an owner that basically was like Crosby's father for a number of years probably does not help either. Any Coach would be walking on egg shells around Crosby b/c heaven's forbid you lay into him or hold him accountable...

@flyercanuck

See what I mean? And you wonder why these "blanket" statements are so fuggin' annoying? Now it's Crosby getting his way because he lived with Mario the 'father figure'. Can't be held accountable. I mean I guess if he 'looks' the part, right?

[Polaris922]

@murraycraven

I think with all the publicity focused on Crosby, all the way down to what he eats for breakfast, he's held more accountable than any other player currently in the league.

[murraycraven]

@B21

@Polaris922

This was in no way intended as a slight but you dont think there is any merit to this whatsoever? You can defend Crosby all you want but something in that locker room is not right and I think the past two years have showed as much. There were whispers of Crosby wanting to play with certain players and IF they are true Crosby is intentionally or unintentionally above the Team. The very notion of this puts a Coach in a bad spot... You have the most talented offensive Team in the league yet you score two goals against the Bruins in the series and get swept - the "best players in the world" did not show up.

B21:

"See what I mean? And you wonder why these "blanket" statements are so fuggin' annoying? Now it's Crosby getting his way because he lived with Mario the 'father figure'. Can't be held accountable. I mean I guess if he 'looks' the part, right?"

Here is the deal... Pens fans idolize Crosby while the rest of the league marks him as the most "hated player in the league." And while some has to do wiht his skill level he is viewed as a whiny baby across the league. Fans elsewhere go overboard with this but heaven's forbid someone question Crosby, in any nature, to a Pens fan. Something is not working there and do I think Crosby has something to do with? Absolutely... Do Pens fans cast the same "blanket statements" about their own team - absolutely. It goes both ways here guys...

From reading the posts on this board it is simple to see that Crosby is already getting a pass for this year. Not sure why...

Edited June 11, 2013 by murraycraven

[Polaris922]

@murraycraven

How exactly has he not been held accountable? After game four, he said it was on him, and that he'd let everyone down. He credited Boston for their shutdown defense and Rask for stellar goaltending. What other accountability is there? I don't know what you expect to be done. The media has torn into him and the others. Is there something that's supposed to happen that we're missing?

The rumors about him influencing who he plays with are all media generated rumors that never once refer to a valid source. Bylsma has said in the past that he likes to keep Crosby with Kunitz and Dupuis. Crosby has said repeatedly he'll play with whomever the coach tells him to. I don't know how to substantiate anything beyond that. No player has ever come out saying "Well Sid decides who plays with him" or anything like that. And honestly, the man is humble as hell in his interviews and any public appearances he makes. I have a hard time picturing him being the prima donna he is so often painted to be.

[murraycraven]

It is a culmination of incidents that compound the hatred people have for him:

His whining about Ovie's hat trick and asking the refs to make an announcement for the fans to stop, his dives, his tossing the glove in the playoffs against the Flyers, his I "hate them" interview where he sulks las year, his temper trantrum against the Habs, the magical dive during the faceoff for the Habs, he dive against Forsberg... the list goes on and on.

Believe me when I say I greatly respect his game and think he is a better player when he is trying to get the calls. I am not a Crosby hater but thought I would just provide some insight as to why people outside of coal town think he is a whiner.

Maybe he is held accountable and maybe he is not. No one knows other than the Pens management and team. All I am saying is that Pens fans give him a pass and if you bring up anything slightly negative it is like you just kicked the pope in the balls.

Has Crosby come out in support of his Coach and laid the blame on himself? If so then kudos to him... Sorry to make so many "fuggin' annoying" statements for christ's sake... i thought this board was open to opinion.

Edited June 11, 2013 by murraycraven

[B21]

@murraycraven

I'm not offended. To answer your question - no, I do not think there is any merit to your theory that Bylsma is on eggs shells around Crosby because he lived with Mario and Mario is like a father figure to him. I've never heard or seen quoted anything that would even allude to that.

Yes - Pens fans idolize Crosby (using your word). No more than Flyers fans idolize Giroux. Almost all Pens fans will defend him if he's criticized the way Flyers fans would defend St. Claude (just ask radoran). But that's not what you have here in this forum. You have 3-4 Pens fans who, i/m/h/o, are far more knowledgeable than your 'average' Pens fan (not saying much). We are all fully aware of Crosby's reputation and my guess is we all think it is a bit overblown yet somewhat deserved. Nonetheless, if you offer a fair critcism of Crosby, we aren't going to argue. I posted a lengthy scathing review of the Pens and Crosby after the Flyers series last year and had some not so flattering things to say this year.

Fair would be something along the lines of Crosby failed in his role as Captain against the Bruins or Crosby's play did not meet expectations or Crosby had a serious problem with diving and complaining to officials in his early years in the league. All fair.

Unfair, and frankly baseless, is what you typed. Or...Crosby is a spoiled brat, Crosby is the biggest diver in the league, Crosby is a dirty player, Crosby gets all the calls, etc. etc. We'll all argue those all day long...and usually "win".

Perfect example. The OV hat trick. OV scored his 3rd goal. Hats rain down on the ice. The arena staff cleans them up. Play continues. Except the Caps fans kept throwing hats further delaying the game. All Crosby did was ask the official if he could make an announcement. Isn't that what a Captain is suppoed to do? Isn't it reasonable to think his teammates said "Hey, Sid. We gotta get this show on the road..."? But of course - the haters post their little YouTube clips and presto!...whiney spoiled baby.

"I don't like them." The complaining of the Flyers fans over this drives me nuts. Especially Flyers fans. I'd bet a shiny new dime that you can find quotes from the 1970's Flyers teams of a similar nature about the Bruins of that era. They HATED each other. Or Avs/Wings in the 1990's. Isn't "hate" like that what makes rivalries great? But noooooooooooooooooo....it's Crosby so he's whining. Now take Giroux's comments about his wrists...complaining about something that happens on faceoffs...all...the....time. He gets a pass from 99% of the posters here. Now imagine if Crosby said that? Don't think for a second that this place whould be littered with posts about how whiney he is.

And yes - we make "blanket" statements, too. Not like yours (and some others I've seen). Have you even seen me post anything like that without any shred of truth to it? Your post didn't appear to be a theory. It had an aura of fact and the accoutability comments seemed to be from way out in left field. He had a bad series. He's still the best player in the world when healthy. What should happen there to make you see accountability...Bylsma should bench him? Publicly criticize him in the media? Yes somehow we arrive at no accountability after a bad series.

Sorry to preach....you're a good poster.

[murraycraven]

Almost all Pens fans will defend him if he's criticized the way Flyers fans would defend St. Claude (just ask radoran).

That quote made me laugh to the point I was drooling water on my desk... and yes, everything you say is spot on and I would agree he is the best player in the world - w/out question. Everything is taken from a point of view in sports and everything else. I come from a biased point of view with Crosby b/c I am a Flyers fan. Same for you as a Pens fan... If we didn't stand up for our Teams and Players it how good of a fan are we

I honestly dont have a problem with Crosby and the way he is perceived, and like I said, I think he is a more effective player when he can get under the other teams skin. I think people said the same thing about #99 when he played. I will freely admit that a large part of this is b/c how good of a player Crosby is... when you are on top people are going to try to knock you down. Frankly, it is easier to throw baseless statements than to think hard- Flyers fans do the same thing aboout our own team :unsure:

I can see where you came up with the assumptions but honestly did not intend it to be conveyed that way. Truthfully, I was just shocked at how the pens came out against Boston. I knew it would be a tough series but did not expect to see the pens come out like that. My biggest question is what is going on in the locker room when you have that much talent? Maybe it is the coach and maybe it is something entirely different and this is where speculation is usually 100% incorrect.

Like I said there was no bad intentions on my part and apologize if the original post came off as baseless.

[B21]

@murraycraven

That quote made me laugh to the point I was drooling water on my desk...

Cool Wasn't sure if you were in on that but it was one of the better reads on here since this place started. The man (radoran) did well despite being outnumbered 10 to 1. I would have changed my handle to "Leonidas" if I were him.

Everything else you said....it's all good.

Now lets go pick on 54.