Stephen Weiss in Free Agency

[Howie58]

Greetings:

Apparently longtime Panther Weiss will go for free agency. The guy is a solid two-way player.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3000

The Panthers will also be in the hunt for Vinny. So Weiss may be expendable.

He is only 30 and has been pretty durable. I'd have to think playing for the O and B might be more appealing than my backyard Panthers, who seem to take one step forward and two back in perpetuity, despite Tallon's good drafts.

On a related note, I suspect Clemmonsen and Theodore will also be available...either might be a good backup to Mason.

Best,

Howie

[JackStraw]

@Howie58 - always liked him as a player, and he seems to be one of those guys that always hurts the Flyers when we play Florida. That said, I don't really see a spot for him on the Flyers. He probably would be a good fit for 2nd line center, but I'd rather stick with Schenn and let him develop.

[ruxpin]

I like Weiss, but yet another center. I'll pass.

I have never been a fan of Theodore. In my opinion, one of the more overrated goalies who has never impressed me. That said, he could come reasonably cheap and wouldn't be a horrible option to tandem/backup Mason. I like Clemmensen, although other than the year with NJ when Brodeur was hurt he's never been anything to write home about. He's cheap and wouldn't be a horrible idea to tandem/backup Mason, but he has another year on his contract, doesn't he? I'm not sure Florida would trade him with Theodore's status up in the air.

[Howie58]

I like Weiss, but yet another center. I'll pass.

I have never been a fan of Theodore. In my opinion, one of the more overrated goalies who has never impressed me. That said, he could come reasonably cheap and wouldn't be a horrible option to tandem/backup Mason. I like Clemmensen, although other than the year with NJ when Brodeur was hurt he's never been anything to write home about. He's cheap and wouldn't be a horrible idea to tandem/backup Mason, but he has another year on his contract, doesn't he? I'm not sure Florida would trade him with Theodore's status up in the air.

You are right...Clem is up for another year at 1.2 million.

Best,

Howie

[ruxpin]

@Howie58

Still not bad suggestions in either case. Theodore might actually be doable. I would scream "NO!" at starter, but as tandem/backup it's definitely a reasonable option. I actually wish it was Clem that was UFA, though, because I like him better for the role.

[aziz]

@Howie58

i'd take it. I still don't buy the idea that it is a problem in general to have a center playing a wing. seems to me that for the most part you just end up with wingers who have an extra comfort level holding the puck, are extra aware defensively, and can take faceoffs...and the coach has additional line up flexibility. some guys, e.g. briere, have trouble, but I think they are the exception.

so, yes, by all means, sign him up. i'm a fan of the idea.

[Howie58]

@Howie58

i'd take it. I still don't buy the idea that it is a problem in general to have a center playing a wing. seems to me that for the most part you just end up with wingers who have an extra comfort level holding the puck, are extra aware defensively, and can take faceoffs...and the coach has additional line up flexibility. some guys, e.g. briere, have trouble, but I think they are the exception.

so, yes, by all means, sign him up. i'm a fan of the idea.

Howdy:

It will be interesting to see what Tallon does in the off-season. The team took a lot of steps backward this year. He may be in a dump mode.

Howie

[ruxpin]

@Howie58

i'd take it. I still don't buy the idea that it is a problem in general to have a center playing a wing. seems to me that for the most part you just end up with wingers who have an extra comfort level holding the puck, are extra aware defensively, and can take faceoffs...and the coach has additional line up flexibility. some guys, e.g. briere, have trouble, but I think they are the exception.

so, yes, by all means, sign him up. i'm a fan of the idea.

Yeah, and it's perfectly okay to have a shortstop playing third base. After all, they still catch and throw.

The devil is in the subtleties, but they are important. Surely, some shortstops make the transition to third base (or the other way) fine. Many struggle. Some centers can play wing or vice versa, but many struggle.

Why? Because it's not just about being able to hold the puck a little longer in the offensive zone or being able to take a faceoff when the "center" gets kicked out of the circle because the linesman has an itch.

There are wholly different responsibilities in the defensive zone and in the neutral zone. For some, it's just a matter of "okay, now I need to be here instead of there." To ME, it actually does seem that simple, but that's coming from someone who only played through high school and not on a particularly high level even for that (it was not even a high level for a PHILLY high school kid in the early 80s). But for someone who naturally, and by years of doing it, has a skill set for a specific position and has developed instincts for that specific position, the switch after 15 years or whatever plus juniors and AA, etc., can be difficult.

If situations arise where the lifelong center instinctively reacts a certain way and then cerebrally checks himself, that momentary hesitation or delay can prove deadly (okay, not deadly...no one's dying...costly?). It did for Briere; it's done so for others. I know there are very good examples where the transition has been smooth, though.

I don't know that the Flyers, or any other team, will know which result it will be until after they're locked into a contract with someone -- probably a substantial contract with either Weiss or Vinny. Instead of Vinny/Weiss, maybe you move Schenn to wing. Fine, when that proves to not work you end up blaming the kid and shipping him out for not being able to play out of position. I'd rather not do it.

Just like signing four second basemen to play all four infield positions would be silly, at best, and ludicrous on its face, so is signing 7 centers to play only 4 center positions. Let the Penguins do something crazy like signing a winger to 8 years, $58M to play defense. Let's just go get ourselves an actual winger who naturally knows how to play wing.

[aziz]

I hear you. I can't disagree with anything specific, you make good points and they are relevant. my feeling is that 90% of NHL wingers were centers until at least junior, and many beyond that. gagne is the one that pops in my head there. you have a kid in squirts who is the best player on the team, coach puts him at center. makes the most of his superior skating, puck handling, decision making. and there he stays until he begins to play with other guys who are closer to his talent level, and then moves over. center is a de facto position. obviously Weiss has been an NHL center forever, so we aren't talking about a kid being asked to make the shift, just that I think there is more of a plug and play to it than is made out to be.

your point about that moment's hesitation with an unfamiliar set of defensive responsibilities made me stop and think the most. and again, I can't disagree with it. but. doesn't that happen every time a new coach comes along with a new system? is the learning curve on that measured in seasons or weeks or days?

I don't know. i'll agree that it isn't ideal. i'd still say someone with Weiss's skill set and character is worth trying the transition.

[mojo1917]

Yeah, and it's perfectly okay to have a shortstop playing third base. After all, they still catch and throw.

your point about that moment's hesitation with an unfamiliar set of defensive responsibilities made me stop and think the most.

as a shortstop who could not make the transition to third base... i can say there are differences, for instance I had to be extra careful with the throw; something about the angle being sharper and needing less mustard on it , cost me milliseconds (at least) to make sure i didn't throw the ball into the first base bleachers. now, you have more time at third because the ball is on you quicker but i was never able to make the switch from the middle of the field to the corners. so when we talk about moving a centerman to wing , i get that there may be issues that cause a good centerman to look a step slow or as if they're floating when really they're just trying not to do something that has been in grained in them to do for 8-10 years.

I don't think it is the best use of talent.

[jammer2]

Weiss would be a nice fit in Toronto, on any of thier lines. The guy is so versitale, he can play primary checker, 1st line minutes and anything in between. I really think Toronto traded for Bolland to shore up the 3rd line, but a lot would depend on if Grabovski gets bought out (he looked solid in the playoffs)...if Bozek leaves UFA....lot's of questions in Toronto right now, more questions than answers.

I also see Weiss fitting in on Detroits 2nd line should they lose out on Vinny.

[ruxpin]

@aziz

Nice post.

Sorry that there was "tone" in mine. I wanted to make the point about center to wing, but the tone wasn't meant for you.

[ruxpin]

doesn't that happen every time a new coach comes along with a new system?

That's a fair point. I just think somehow there's a difference between [playing double-play depth or shift at shortstop] and [playing short or third].

I think you've done a nice job at least acknowledging my point so I think I need to acknowledge I may be overstating it a bit.

I haven't read the "dredger reports Vinnie to Flyers" thread yet, so the discussion may be moot at this point, but I would still rather see them spend the money at a good "natural" winger (whatever the hell that is) rather than spend money to force people out of position.

[ruxpin]

Damn. Done deal.

I really like Vinny, so I'm happy on that side of things. I guess the rest will take care of itself.

[Mad Dog]

Damn. Done deal.

I really like Vinny, so I'm happy on that side of things. I guess the rest will take care of itself.

Well, that takes care of thinking about signing Weiss. lol

[jammer2]

My prediction for Weiss in UFA...5.5 mill a year for 7 years.