SABRES TRADE VANEK TO ISLANDERS FOR MOULSON, PICKS

[ruxpin]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435220

 

The New York Islanders have acquired forward Thomas Vanek from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for forward Matt Moulson, a first round draft pick in 2014 and a 2015 second round pick.

Vanek, 29, is set to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of the 2013-14 season. In 13 games this season he has scored four goals and added five assists.

The Austrian is in the final year of a seven-year deal he signed with the Sabres prior to 2007-08 worth an average annual value of $7.142 million.

Moulson has scored six goals and three assists with the Islanders in 11 games so far in 2013-14. He, too, is set to become an unrestricted free agent at season's end.

He is in the final season of a three-year deal worth an average annual value of $3.13 million.

More details to follow.

 

Boy, that is one helluva deal for the Sabres.  I cannot imagine they could have done better.  They actually got a better player than Vanek AND draft picks.   No word on what kind of gun was used in the robbery.

[yave1964]

I have to disagree, Vanek puts up solid numbers with a decrepit team. There is one hell of a difference between playing on a line with Hodgson and Stafford and playing with Tavares and Okposo. The Isles are better from top to bottom and I believe Vanek will flourish there. He must be the happiest man in New York right now....

[blocker]

Me too.  Vanek is a whole lot better than Moulson. 

 

I guess you have to factor into the equation that this is probably Vanek's last year in Buffalo.  But, the same uncertainty exists with Moulson.   Draft picks are an iffy throw of the dice which might or might not pay off some years down the road. 

 

I think Buffalo made a bad trade.  They would have been better served by trading Vanek and whatever it would take to get a good, young defenseman.

[ruxpin]

I disagree with anyone who thinks Buffalo got a bad deal. This is such a bad deal the other way that Snow should be fired.

Buffalo has dmen and more coming. That's not at all an immediate concern. Moulson is three years younger and putting up similar numbers [edit: I apparently misread Moulson's age on TSN. They are both 29. It doesn't change my opinion of the trade, though]. Plus, buffalo now has two first round draft picks. They are in complete rebuild mode and are doing tremendous. And I'm sorry, but "Vanek plus whatever" is so opposite what needs to be done in Buffalo. That team is currently not even close. Trading Vanek AND something is just simply nuts. They need to he stockpiling picks and that's exactly what they're doing. The fact they also got a cheaper, younger player putting up similar numbers is simply bonus.

Vanek will do only about the same as Moulson in NY and will leave for Minny in June. I'm happy for Buffalo, but this is a stroke of lunacy for Garth Snow. Maybe just a stroke.

Great job, Buffalo.

[ruxpin]

This is a sad day for me. To say Moulson is better than Vanek is an insult. And a joke. I will miss Thomas. I will never forget how valuable he is to this team. He is our best player along with Miller. CBS says the Sabres won this deal. I suppose if he was going to walk for nothing you have to see it that way. But its sad to see him go.

Moulson will do a decent job replacing Vanek's numbers plus you got two high draft picks. CBS says the Sabres won because they did. They couldn't have done better if they'd brought a gun.

[nossagog]

I disagree with anyone who thinks Buffalo got a bad deal. This is such a bad deal the other way that Snow should be fired.

Buffalo has dmen and more coming. That's not at all an immediate concern. Moulson is three years younger and putting up similar numbers. Plus, buffalo now has two first round draft picks. They are in complete rebuild mode and are doing tremendous

Vanek will do only about the same as Moulson in NY and will leave for Minny in June. I'm happy for Buffalo, but this is a stroke of lunacy for Garth Snow. Maybe just a stroke.

I think that both Vanek and Moulson are the same age.

 

Vanek has some great years early with Drury and Briere on the Sabres, and would probably do well with Tavares.  But this could be a short term thing for the Islanders, as there are rumors Vanek wants to play with his buddy Jason Pommenville.

 

For the Sabres, I think they could have held out until the trade deadline, and got a lot more at that time.

[ruxpin]

This is a sad day for me. To say Moulson is better than Vanek is an insult. And a joke. I will miss Thomas. I will never forget how valuable he is to this team. He is our best player along with Miller. CBS says the Sabres won this deal. I suppose if he was going to walk for nothing you have to see it that way. But its sad to see him go.

I do get that Vanek was one of your favorite players, though. Some really painful times in Buffalo, I'm sure.

[ruxpin]

I think that both Vanek and Moulson are the same age.

Vanek has some great years early with Drury and Briere on the Sabres, and would probably do well with Tavares. But this could be a short term thing for the Islanders, as there are rumors Vanek wants to play with his buddy Jason Pommenville.

For the Sabres, I think they could have held out until the trade deadline, and got a lot more at that time.

Vanek and Moulson are both 29 according to tsn. I swear it said Moulson was 26.three hours ago, although it's possible I read Moulson's uniform number. I don't know how you do much better than a cheaper guy putting up better numbers, and a first and second for a rental. Not unless you're grossly over-valuing Vanek.

[yave1964]

Vanek and Moulson are both 29 according to tsn. I swear it said Moulson was 26.three hours ago, although it's possible I read Moulson's uniform number. I don't know how you do much better than a cheaper guy putting up better numbers, and a first and second for a rental. Not unless you're grossly over-valuating Vanek.

IMHO Moulson is a product of playing with Tavares and will decline badly in Buffalo. They easily have the weakest batch of forwards in the NHL, by a lot.

 Vanek has performed at a high level with very little skill around him. He is miles ahead of the softer Moulson and will if possible even make Tavares better. short term, huge win for the Isles. Long term, jury out depending upon what Regier does with the picks and upon the Isles resigning Vanek. I will lay action on THIS YEAR going forward Vanek outscoring Moulson by 15 or more points by the end of the season.

Edited October 28, 2013 by yave1964

[nossagog]

Vanek and Moulson are both 29 according to tsn. I swear it said Moulson was 26.three hours ago, although it's possible I read Moulson's uniform number. I don't know how you do much better than a cheaper guy putting up better numbers, and a first and second for a rental. Not unless you're grossly over-valuing Vanek.

Pretty early on in the season to say that Moulson is putting up better numbers, both have 9 points, especially with Moulson playing with Tavares.

 

I wonder if Buffalo wished they would have taken the four first rounders from Edmonton back in '07?

[blocker]

Vanek has performed at a high level with very little skill around him

 

Agreed.  The old yardstick for trades is that the team that ended up with the best player won.  In this case it's the Islanders.

[ruxpin]

Pretty early on in the season to say that Moulson is putting up better numbers, both have 9 points

 

Agree it's early, but Moulson's is in two less games.  And he's a plus +3 to Vanek's -5.

 

Moulson also outscored him in both of the last two seasons, so it's actually not that early.

 

I can't argue with the Tavares thing, although we have yet to see.   I have no doubt you're right on that.

 

But I don't know that there will be that much drop off in Buffalo.    Yeah, Moulson's numbers will likely take a bit of a hit.   But ultimately, who cares?  

 

If we're talking about this year, the extra 10-15 that Vanek might have scored in Buffalo won't matter a hill of beans.   And maybe down the road they actually get someone who can play with Moulson.

 

And at a 6.19 vs. 2.7M cap hit, the drop off in Buffalo will NOT be in proportion.

 

I wrote on the other thread, everything I've read says Vanek wants to go to Minny.  I just don't see him re-signing with the Isles.   So you're talking about a one season rental--on a team that I do not believe is ready to "go for it" this year.   I don't think Vanek suddenly makes them able to compete with Boston, Pittsburgh, or Ottawa.  And then he leaves.

 

In the meantime, Moulson is a UFA at the end of this season as well.  So maybe you move HIM for something at the deadline.   Do or don't you still have an additional first rounder and a second for a team clearly in need of as many picks as possible and now with an extra 3.4M in cap space ( a full $6.19 if Moulsen is traded for picks as well or doesn't resign).

 

I see this as beneficial both ways but not enough for the Islanders unless they're doing something alot more.  First, I don't value Vanek that high, but second, I don't think the Isles are THAT close that Vanek makes that big a difference.

[ruxpin]

With Vanek gone, we are officially an AHL team now

 

The honest truth is that you already were.  Now you're an AHL team withOUT Vanek.

 

I truly wonder if they don't actually move Moulson himself at the deadline.   On the other hand, he could be of some value if they could sign him in the 3.5-4M range.

[radoran]

Vanek's in a contract year. Going to a playoff team to play with a top level center like Tavares can only improve his value.

 

The Islanders have cap room and are moving into a new building next season. A playoff run and a high profile scorer is just what they need.

 

Snow's point that the boatload of top picks they have from past drafts makes this less of a risk for the Isles is well taken. Moulson and next year's pick (which could wind up in the high teens) were commodities they could lose to acquire the talent of Vanek.

 

Knew it was coming. Waiting for the Other Shoe.

[ruxpin]

@radoran

 

Rad, where do you go to find out how many picks and what rounds a team has in this year's and next year's drafts?

[ruxpin]

Agreed.  The old yardstick for trades is that the team that ended up with the best player won.  In this case it's the Islanders.

 

It's deciding who the best player is that is the trick.  The argument "he plays with Tavares!" aside, Moulson has outscored Vanek each of the last two seasons and both have 9 points this season with 2 less games for Moulson.    All things considered, MAYBE Vanek is better than Moulson, but recent actual numbers don't play that out.  And then you add a first AND a second?   

 

And you add in that Vanek is a rental?  AND it's likely they'll flip Moulson for even more picks/prospects at the deadline?

 

Sorry, the math doesn't add up for saying the Islanders won this.   Not even close, actually.

[ruxpin]

Miller will cost

 

You know what?  With all the injuries to goalies recently, you would have to think the hockey Gods are actually smiling on Buffalo.   His trade value just recently went way up.

 

I've read that Nashville and Carolina are both looking at Bryzgalov.  Maybe it's just me, but I'd be calling Buffalo long before talking seriously to Bryzgalov's agent.

 

Buffalo could do very well there.  And Enroth could certainly at least hold the fort during a rebuild.

[nossagog]

Agree it's early, but Moulson's is in two less games.  And he's a plus +3 to Vanek's -5.

 

Moulson also outscored him in both of the last two seasons, so it's actually not that early.

 

I can't argue with the Tavares thing, although we have yet to see.   I have no doubt you're right on that.

 

As a Pens fan, I've been lucky enough to see two great players in Lemieux and Crosby on my team.  But I have also been able to see first hand how inflated their wings numbers can become. Lemieux played with plugs for years and dragged them along to big contracts.  Remember Warren Young??? Scored 40 goals on Lemieux's wing one year after coming up from the Skipjacks.  Next year he went FA to the Wings, and was soon back in the minors.

 

Will Moulson be the same thing? Don't know, but I am expecting a big dropoff on his numbers from previous season on the Sabres.   His FA contract value probably took a big hit today.

[brelic]

Three guys have impressed me during this mess.  Girgensons, Foligno and Ristolanen.  I say they are all going to be very good

Don't forget Zadorov.

Add to that what will likely be 1st overall this year, and you guys are set.

I'm jealous.

[radoran]

It's deciding who the best player is that is the trick.  The argument "he plays with Tavares!" aside, Moulson has outscored Vanek each of the last two seasons and both have 9 points this season with 2 less games for Moulson.    All things considered, MAYBE Vanek is better than Moulson, but recent actual numbers don't play that out.  And then you add a first AND a second?   

 

And you add in that Vanek is a rental?  AND it's likely they'll flip Moulson for even more picks/prospects at the deadline?

 

Sorry, the math doesn't add up for saying the Islanders won this.   Not even close, actually.

 

The Isles have the best player in the deal rightnow - what happens with that First and Second and whatever they might get for Moulson could very well change that.

 

I can see some team at the deadline "needing scoring help" giving up a lot for Moulson - sort of like Minny did with Pominville.

 

In the end, I have to agree that Buffalo won this deal.

 

@radoran

 

Rad, where do you go to find out how many picks and what rounds a team has in this year's and next year's drafts?

 

I don't really know. Might check around.

[brelic]

@radoran

 

Rad, where do you go to find out how many picks and what rounds a team has in this year's and next year's drafts?

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Future/

[ruxpin]

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Future/

 

Thanks for that!

[ruxpin]

@brelic

 

For whatever reason, I was under the impression that the Islanders were well-stocked with picks.   I guess having one per round might qualify (especially compared to the Flyers), but I actually thought that through trades, etc., that they must have additional picks.   According to that site, that's not the case.   So I REALLY don't think I get the Vanek trade at all, especially if they aren't able to extend him.

[hf101]

@radoran

 

Rad, where do you go to find out how many picks and what rounds a team has in this year's and next year's drafts?

 

 

I use this site:   http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Years/2014.htm

[radoran]

Thanks for that!

 

well, the site isn't updated with the Vanek trade yet and on the Flyers has the Isles sending a player and a pick to Philly "for Mark Streit"

 

The trade went the other way.

 

Just "grain of salt" you know?