Captain Clueless: The Fall from Grace

[murraycraven]

Things are bad... in fact, things are as bad as things can possibly get (I hope).  

 

Here is a question for the masses since I am way more confident in our analysis of hockey than any of the dolts related to the Flyers/Comcast organ-blackeye-zation:   What the hell happened to Claude Giroux?   

 

The "best player in the world" plays lights out against the dreaded Pens and everyone thinks he becomes an elite player in the league overnight.   This was a HUGE mistake and that "first shift" will be haunting this Team forever.  Yes, he was the best player on the ice and he was absolutely outstanding in that series.   Things were looking up for the Flyers and it looked like we finally have a powerhouse elite player - something the club has not had since the days of #88.

 

Fast forward to last year Giroux had a down year while still managing to put up a point per game in a shortened season.   Was not great by any strecth but his numbers were respectable for the a first year Captain.  They lose and lose and miss the playoffs.

 

Coming into this year CG hurts his wrist golfing (total BS IMO) and has been a shell of his former self.   There has to be something wrong with him both mentally and physically.  I have never seen a player go from such a highly talented and capable player to something that is literally an embarassment.  

 

Where did things go wrong b/c I am stumped.   I do however feel like he was over valued as a Player.   Dont get me wrong I think he is a very good player but never thought he was in the same class and Crosby, et al.   Giroux NEEDS people around him where Crosby, and the like, make plays on their own and find a ways to create space and finish.   I really question if he is a franchise player and moreso question his impending contract.  

 

Let me reiterate - I love G but does anyone here think he is an 8M/8year player?  I really believe that the C in Philly is a curse and I think history might agree.  

 

I think the organization, and the fans, have greatly over-valued Giroux and most of his teammates.   Whatever it is Giroux NEEDS to play like a superstar for this Team to be successful.   If he is hurt he needs to man-up and sit himself in the pressbox.  If he does not want the 'C' he needs to go speak to Homer and the Chief. 

 

Something is not right - is there an issue in the locker room?   Seems to me last night was almost at big F U to Homer and Berube...

 

Good player?  yes.  Super star? no.

[SwedeFly]

I honestly think that there is a locker room issue... Maybe the contracts to Hartnell and Giroux are rubbing the rest of the team the wrong way ...as well as the play of these 2.

The only reason I say this is because the highest paid players , aside from Vinny, are the issue here (Giroux, Hartnell, Vorecek ). They are simply not earning their keep.

[murraycraven]

I honestly think that there is a locker room issue... Maybe the contracts to Hartnell and Giroux are rubbing the rest of the team the wrong way ...as well as the play of these 2.

The only reason I say this is because the highest paid players , aside from Vinny, are the issue here (Giroux, Hartnell, Vorecek ). They are simply not earning their keep.

 

swede... I tend to agree.  something stinks here and this is not a Team that appears to be bonding very well.  It would not be a far fetched idea that something in the locker room is off...  

[jammer2]

 I think G's talent level is off the charts. His pure skill level is top 15 in the league. The pts for whatever reason are not coming. The effort for whatever reason is not there. Superstars find a way out of these slumps. He has shown no fight, no persistence in the face of adversity. I can't understand it, but the guy who racked up 90+ pts as a 22 year old is hidden under all this garbage somewhere.

[murraycraven]

 I think G's talent level is off the charts. His pure skill level is top 15 in the league. The pts for whatever reason are not coming. The effort for whatever reason is not there. Superstars find a way out of these slumps. He has shown no fight, no persistence in the face of adversity. I can't understand it, but the guy who racked up 90+ pts as a 22 year old is hidden under all this garbage somewhere.

 

agreed Rux but if we take all of his great play into account we have to take all of his shitty play as well... I am not sure what to think but he appears, to me anyway, to be the problem.  No effort, plays the perimeter, turnovers, etc...   He needs to be the leader not they worst player on the ice.  I am starting to get the feeling like he thinks he should be entitled...

[doom88]

Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, Patrick Kane, Tavares, Nash, Parise, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Eric Staal, Stamkos, Vanek, Krejci

And I didn't even mention top skilled defenseman or goalies. Giroux is overrated.

[murraycraven]

Giroux is overrated.

 

I am afraid to say that I agree... 8M/8 years = Screwed

 

Good thing we have two buyouts - oh wait

Edited November 2, 2013 by murraycraven

[yave1964]

My take on Giroux

 

I see him as an opportunist who takes shifts off but has enormous talent and therefore can get away with it. He can play a tough game for a little guy, not afraid to go into the corners and fight for the puck.

 He is a little guy, hell I haven't looked it up but he weighs, what, 180? So he cannot go all out on every shift hanging and banging with the big boys who are on the ice against him or he would live on IR.

 From what I have seen, an outsiders perspective he seems tentative this year. In years past he if anything has been selfish with the puck, holding it or keeping it too long but this year he wants to dump it as soon as he has it. I don't know, it may be because of his goal drought, or the cause of it.

  I think once he gets his first couple he will take a deep breath and relax, playing his game.

  Every team needs a guy like Giroux, hell I would kill to see him wearing the winged wheel. But a guy who takes shifts off and seems to go through long term dealing with his own issues on the ice may not be the ideal captain. He has always struck me as more of a number two or three guy, a follower who would be able to relax more on the ice if they asked him to do less off of it.

[pilldoc]

Things are bad... in fact, things are as bad as things can possibly get (I hope).

Here is a question for the masses since I am way more confident in our analysis of hockey than any of the dolts related to the Flyers/Comcast organ-blackeye-zation: What the hell happened to Claude Giroux?

The "best player in the world" plays lights out against the dreaded Pens and everyone thinks he becomes an elite player in the league overnight. This was a HUGE mistake and that "first shift" will be haunting this Team forever. Yes, he was the best player on the ice and he was absolutely outstanding in that series. Things were looking up for the Flyers and it looked like we finally have a powerhouse elite player - something the club has not had since the days of #88.

Fast forward to last year Giroux had a down year while still managing to put up a point per game in a shortened season. Was not great by any strecth but his numbers were respectable for the a first year Captain. They lose and lose and miss the playoffs.

Coming into this year CG hurts his wrist golfing (total BS IMO) and has been a shell of his former self. There has to be something wrong with him both mentally and physically. I have never seen a player go from such a highly talented and capable player to something that is literally an embarassment.

Where did things go wrong b/c I am stumped. I do however feel like he was over valued as a Player. Dont get me wrong I think he is a very good player but never thought he was in the same class and Crosby, et al. Giroux NEEDS people around him where Crosby, and the like, make plays on their own and find a ways to create space and finish. I really question if he is a franchise player and moreso question his impending contract.

Let me reiterate - I love G but does anyone here think he is an 8M/8year player? I really believe that the C in Philly is a curse and I think history might agree.

I think the organization, and the fans, have greatly over-valued Giroux and most of his teammates. Whatever it is Giroux NEEDS to play like a superstar for this Team to be successful. If he is hurt he needs to man-up and sit himself in the pressbox. If he does not want the 'C' he needs to go speak to Homer and the Chief.

Something is not right - is there an issue in the locker room? Seems to me last night was almost at big F U to Homer and Berube...

Good player? yes. Super star? no.

Agreed! Can't really add much more.

[murraycraven]

Every team needs a guy like Giroux

 

At 8M per year? 

 

I will take Datsyuk for G straight up

Edited November 2, 2013 by murraycraven

[SwedeFly]

@yave1964

We went through this same thing with Richards...

Named him captain and the cornerstone of the franchise...heck, I even think he was considered as a first line center by some in this organization. The truth is, Richards is an second (at most) or third line shutdown center who prefers to shy away from attention while laying it all out on the ice. He was perfect fit in LA and has thrived in that role where he is not the center of attention.

The problem is that the Flyers are poor judges of finding the right mix of personalities to match their responsibilities on the ice. It seems year after year they are more concerned with how they look on paper more than anything else.

It reminds of the time in science class we had to each make a volcano at home. This one kid came in with this elaborate looking volcano surrounded by palm trees, turf, even a beach .....it was beautiful. Looked like Mauna Loa in Hawaii.

The problem was when they flipped the switch to demonstrate how a volcano works, nothing happened. It was a dud.

Mine on the other hand did not look so magnificent....but when it was showtime the lava flowed like the river Nile....

[murraycraven]

It reminds of the time in science class we had to each make a volcano at home. This one kid came in with this elaborate looking volcano surrounded by palm trees, turf, even a beach .....it was beautiful. Looked like Mauna Loa in Hawaii.
The problem was when they flipped the switch to demonstrate how a volcano works, nothing happened. It was a dud.
Mine on the other hand did not look so magnificent....but when it was showtime the lava flowed like the river Nile....

 

 

Haha!   That was a great line!!  Thanks for making me laugh!!!  great stuff...

[magnumpi]

I've come to the conclusion that the problem is this great Flyer "culture" not Giroux or any other particular player.

 

IT seems every new edition of a Flyer team since the Lindros era has at one time or the other been reviled because of various items, especially all the captains.

 

At some point don't you have to begin questioning the organization not the individuals who are currently the "problem"

[Samifan]

The title of this post sounds like something you would see of the Biography channel.

[magnumpi]

Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, Patrick Kane, Tavares, Nash, Parise, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Eric Staal, Stamkos, Vanek, Krejci

And I didn't even mention top skilled defenseman or goalies. Giroux is overrated.

 

 

If Giroux played for an intelligent organization that understood the concept of building a team his production would be near the top of the league.

 

The mad horde of Philly fans come out looking for a scapegoat without ever evaluating the real issue - its the organization, its rotten to the core.

[murraycraven]

The title of this post sounds like something you would see of the Biography channel.

 

I will take that as a compliment Sami!

[Samifan]

As you should, sorry if I was not clear .

Just need to find a guy with a cool voice to do the narrative. Morgan Freeman?

[murraycraven]

that would be awesome...  A lot of slo-mo shots of Giroux missing the net would make it great!

[PuckMeister]

PuckMeister  To All,

 

I am finally back from Ecuador and living in Texas so I do not get to watch many Flyers games.  Lord, I watched the first two periods of last nights game and could not believe my eyes.  I've followed the Flyers for years since their inception and this was the absolute worst performance I've ever watched.

 

Our D is big and VERY slow but the entire time took the night off.  Can't expect the goalie to bale the team out every game.  They have to show up and play with intensity for 60 minutes!  Things you already know.

 

Org. cannot keep trading away talent for zip only to see them blossom elsewhere.  Getting rid of the coach doesn't seem to be the answer either. The players have to accept the responsibility for their play and not lay the blame elsewhere.  Homer has over paid and given out too many NTC/NMC far too often.  Change is needed from top down as many have already posted.  I think the players sense this team is flawed big time and are playing to be traded elsewhere to a team that has a chance to succeed. CG is still injured at the wrists and finger and I think this is his scoring problem.  Bringing Downie back was STUPID when they already have Rinaldo.  The Bullie days are gone for good and hockey has progressed were speed and talent is needed.  Bringing up McGynn is a day late and a buck short IMO.

 

CG was too young to be given the responsibility of captaincy so I agree with the others who have posted the same.  If he is injured, then get him off the ice 'til he is recovered and give the C to some one else.

 

If the room is as rotten as we think, then why not blow this ship up and begin anew.  The good old boys are not going to get it done so change the leadership all around.  Get all the picks we can in trades and draft smarter.  Not sure smarter is possible.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[murraycraven]

Welcome back Meister!!

[magnumpi]

PuckMeister  To All,

 

I am finally back from Ecuador and living in Texas so I do not get to watch many Flyers games.  Lord, I watched the first two periods of last nights game and could not believe my eyes.  I've followed the Flyers for years since their inception and this was the absolute worst performance I've ever watched.

 

Our D is big and VERY slow but the entire time took the night off.  Can't expect the goalie to bale the team out every game.  They have to show up and play with intensity for 60 minutes!  Things you already know.

 

Org. cannot keep trading away talent for zip only to see them blossom elsewhere.  Getting rid of the coach doesn't seem to be the answer either. The players have to accept the responsibility for their play and not lay the blame elsewhere.  Homer has over paid and given out too many NTC/NMC far too often.  Change is needed from top down as many have already posted.  I think the players sense this team is flawed big time and are playing to be traded elsewhere to a team that has a chance to succeed. CG is still injured at the wrists and finger and I think this is his scoring problem.  Bringing Downie back was STUPID when they already have Rinaldo.  The Bullie days are gone for good and hockey has progressed were speed and talent is needed.  Bringing up McGynn is a day late and a buck short IMO.

 

CG was too young to be given the responsibility of captaincy so I agree with the others who have posted the same.  If he is injured, then get him off the ice 'til he is recovered and give the C to some one else.

 

If the room is as rotten as we think, then why not blow this ship up and begin anew.  The good old boys are not going to get it done so change the leadership all around.  Get all the picks we can in trades and draft smarter.  Not sure smarter is possible.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

 

since thre Lindros era, the "room" has alwsys been rotten.

 

So, isn't logical to conclude that it isn't necessarily a player or a group of players, the issue is the management of the organization which includes Al Davis.

 

You can change the "room" but the results are going to be the same. We could have an entirely new "room in 2015 and the posts would be identical to today. 

The comments about this team are identical to the comments about the mike richards team, the peter forsberg team, the team that shot pucks at Checkmanek's head in practice, its endless.

 

until management is cleaned out, we're going to havbe the same issuers.  The soluition isn't blaming tyhe captain or any other particular player

[PuckMeister]

Or the coach, or the system, or the pundits! Clean house already.

[jammer2]

Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, Patrick Kane, Tavares, Nash, Parise, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Eric Staal, Stamkos, Vanek, Krejci

And I didn't even mention top skilled defenseman or goalies. Giroux is overrated.

 

 Really, you think Nash, Parise, Backstrom, Vanek, Krejci can do things with the puck that G can't?  G's skills are off the charts, he may not be producing, but in terms of pure skill, I don't agree with a lot of guys on your list.

[jammer2]

  He's been so very crappy, maybe some people forget just how talented G is....

 

 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1417043-claude-girouxs-10-sickest-goals/page/3

 

 

  There is point production, and there is being dynamic and creative, you won't find many players topping G in those categories. As much as Tavares fills the net, he can't touch G in terms of D + C.

[lespauljr2006]

Coming into this year CG hurts his wrist golfing (total BS IMO) and has been a shell of his former self.   There has to be something wrong with him both mentally and physically.  I have never seen a player go from such a highly talented and capable player to something that is literally an embarassment.  

 

You could see last year that it was getting to him, making dumb plays and firing scud missiles 4 feet wide of the net,

 

It has happened before but not here,  look up Jonathan Cheechoo..