Report: Brayden Schenn for Jake Gardiner Deal Being Discussed

[fanaticV3.0]

I hear what you are saying as well - and, as usual, we're not that far away from each other.

 

Richards/Crater were hardly "focal points" for all six years they were here - much like Giroux wasn't a "focal point" in 2011. "Being on the roster" and "being a focal point" are two different things. Giroux had 21 points in 23 playoff games, but he was hardly expected to carry the team and got a lot of open space from what Briere/Hartnell/Richards/Crater/etc. opened up.

 

Of Coburn/Hartnell/Briere/Timonen/Gagne, that particular group was together all of two years (Briere/Hartnell/Timonen arriving in 07-08 and Gagne leaving for 09-10). Again, I think the point is that having that "core" allowed for them to add the pieces - including Crater and Richards - to get to the Final. Having gotten there, they blew it up.

 

And my point was specifically that they have another good core here now - and I HAVE and DO give "credit" to the GM that assembled it. I'll forego the backhanded comlpiment for the moment. They have seven forwards and four defensemen signed at this point for the next two seasons after this at least with BSchenn and Downie potentially adding.

 

Again, assuming they don't blow it up and see similar success.

 

For all six years, no they weren't. You are right. My point there was that they were simply given a lot of time and during that time they were given a lot of help too. They tried different approaches with them. Their first two seasons they were given veterans like Forsberg, Handzus, Knuble, Gagne, and they were expect to play secondary roles. They had guys to take the pressure of them. Then later on it shifted to them in leadership roles and they played with Coburn, Hartnell, Briere, Timonen, and again Gagne. They had some success, but also some struggles, so Pronger was brought in. He both helped and hurt (as did their reaction to him). They were given a lot to work with. They also had three coaches during their time here. They didn't like Hitch, so they replaced him with a player friendly coach. That didn't work out either, so they brought in another disciplinarian. That didn't work out either. At that point, I don't have a problem blowing that team up. Six years, 3 coaches, a veteran supporting cast (along with a bunch of young kids too) and it was just time to move on.

 

I was mostly ******* with you about the Homer comment. Mostly. I know you know the return on certain players were good and we can agree on others it was ****.

 

If he blows this group up, that's not acceptable.

[radoran]

For all six years, no they weren't. You are right. My point there was that they were simply given a lot of time and during that time they were given a lot of help too. They tried different approaches with them. Their first two seasons they were given veterans like Forsberg, Handzus, Knuble, Gagne, and they were expect to play secondary roles. They had guys to take the pressure of them. Then later on it shifted to them in leadership roles and they played with Coburn, Hartnell, Briere, Timonen, and again Gagne. They had some success, but also some struggles, so Pronger was brought in. He both helped and hurt (as did their reaction to him). They were given a lot to work with. They also had three coaches during their time here. They didn't like Hitch, so they replaced him with a player friendly coach. That didn't work out either, so they brought in another disciplinarian. That didn't work out either. At that point, I don't have a problem blowing that team up. Six years, 3 coaches, a veteran supporting cast (along with a bunch of young kids too) and it was just time to move on.

 

I was mostly ****** with you about the Homer comment. Mostly. I know you know the return on certain players were good and we can agree on others it was ****.

 

If he blows this group up, that's not acceptable.

 

I hear you - the issue then becomes the fact that the organization committed to those two players for decade-long deals, KNOWING all of the "problems" which you list.

 

And you have the "leadership" issue of a year of Hatcher, a year of Forsberg, a year of Smith and then handing the whole kit and kaboodle to Richards before two years later bringing in Pronger and then dealing Richards.

 

The Flyers have had the basic consistency of water.

[fanaticV3.0]

I hear you - the issue then becomes the fact that the organization committed to those two players for decade-long deals, KNOWING all of the "problems" which you list.

 

And you have the "leadership" issue of a year of Hatcher, a year of Forsberg, a year of Smith and then handing the whole kit and kaboodle to Richards before two years later bringing in Pronger and then dealing Richards.

 

The Flyers have had the basic consistency of water.

 

Theoretically speaking, I have no problem with their general approach the last several years. I don't want a team of old guys, but I'm not a real big fan of all-out youth movements. I think it can just ruin a player's potential. Having a group of young kids and surrounding them with vets is my preferred way to do it. But the money we spend is absurd.

[radoran]

Theoretically speaking, I have no problem with their general approach the last several years. I don't want a team of old guys, but I'm not a real big fan of all-out youth movements. I think it can just ruin a player's potential. Having a group of young kids and surrounding them with vets is my preferred way to do it. But the money we spend is absurd.

 

They've started in many promising directions, the key thing would be to arrive at a destination every once in a while...

[AndyS]

I for one am anxious to see some of the kids they've drafted in recent years playing with the big club.

 

Both of the D-men they drafted this year, Ghost, Cousins, Laughton, etc.  I'd almost rather that they all just play in the NHL right now & get their learning curve started.

 

This team could be really, really good in a couple years.

[flyersfan83]

Theoretically speaking, I have no problem with their general approach the last several years. I don't want a team of old guys, but I'm not a real big fan of all-out youth movements. I think it can just ruin a player's potential. Having a group of young kids and surrounding them with vets is my preferred way to do it. But the money we spend is absurd.

 

that's how LA and chicago is doing it, with the flyers, the first line is still struggling, they need a good winger for that line, i think the defense still needs improving, they need a pronger type to get this team over the hump. i like to see them play a really good team to see how far this team really is.

 

in my opinion, they need more help.

Edited November 22, 2013 by flyersfan83

[radoran]

I for one am anxious to see some of the kids they've drafted in recent years playing with the big club.

 

Both of the D-men they drafted this year, Ghost, Cousins, Laughton, etc.  I'd almost rather that they all just play in the NHL right now & get their learning curve started.

 

This team could be really, really good in a couple years.

 

OK, I concur I would like to see that, too.

 

The Flyers have seven forwards signed for at least the next two seasons and Streit signed for four more (with three other Dmen signed for at least the next two).

 

Where do Ghost, Cousins and Laughton get a chance to crack the lineup?

[fanaticV3.0]

that's how LA and chicago is doing it, with the flyers, the first line is still struggling, they need a good winger for that line, i think the defense still needs improving, they need a pronger type to get this team over the hump. i like to see them play a really good team to see how far this team really is.

 

in my opinion, they need more help.

 

I said almost the same exact thing on another thread. Those are the exact two positions I'd like to see improved upon. I don't know how many high profile wingers are available right now, but a part of my wants to experiment. I'd like to see what happens if you throw McGinn in the lineup and go after a good defender.

[radoran]

I said almost the same exact thing on another thread. Those are the exact two positions I'd like to see improved upon. I don't know how many high profile wingers are available right now, but a part of my wants to experiment. I'd like to see what happens if you throw McGinn in the lineup and go after a good defender.

 

If only they had a 30-goal scorer from New Jersey.

 

Or something.

 

[fanaticV3.0]

If only they had a 30-goal scorer from New Jersey.

 

Or something.

 

 

Well technically, TOR doesn't have a 30-goal scorer from NJ either. One can always hope he has a miserable rest of the year Oh my, that sounded like rux, didn't it?

Edited November 22, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[AndyS]

OK, I concur I would like to see that, too.

 

The Flyers have seven forwards signed for at least the next two seasons and Streit signed for four more (with three other Dmen signed for at least the next two).

 

Where do Ghost, Cousins and Laughton get a chance to crack the lineup?

 

Unfortunately, they probably don't.

 

I would much rather take our lumps for a couple years and then have a possible dynasty after that.

 

But that is too much of a long-term view, I suppose. 

[CoachX]

Can we wait until he does said rumored stupid thing before criticizing him for it?

you were post #7 of the thread. Homers name was only mentioned twice prior to yours and only one was remotely critical