B21 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Looking at the video I can say with complete assurance that break DELIBERATELY but casually sticks his knee out and would not have made head contact if he hadn't. It's really crystal clear. The ref immediately behind instantly puts his and up as is quite clear it's no accident.The Rinaldo thing isn't even comparable and it's quite a joke that it comes up as done sort of comparison.Rinaldo was utterly stupid in what it did to his own team. But the guy was completely standing, saw him coming, and chose not to fight back even though he's perfectly capable.In Neal's case the guy is completely lying helpless on the ice and coward puke boy pulls his crap. He's not even a man. It's a relevant comparison on Thornton jumping Neal...not Neal's knee on Marchand. Not as nearly as bad as Thornton but in the context of punching a guy who has declined to fight it's in the ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 It's a relevant comparison on Thornton jumping Neal...not Neal's knee on Marchand. Not as nearly as bad as Thornton but in the context of punching a guy who has declined to fight it's in the ballpark.Oh, my bad. I misunderstood. Yes similar--at least legitimately comparable - - but several degrees of severity worse. I think worse because Orpik didn't even have a chance to accept or decline. In my mind, becomes similar when in both instances the felon continues or starts punching once the victim is already prone. And, of course, the huge difference in result. Just by optics, not principle, if Ronaldo's is a felony (I thought it was ugly and used that term myself during the game) then Thornton is whatever is worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Oh, my bad. I misunderstood. Yes similar--at least legitimately comparable - - but several degrees of severity worse. I think worse because Orpik didn't even have a chance to accept or decline. In my mind, becomes similar when in both instances the felon continues or starts punching once the victim is already prone. And, of course, the huge difference in result. Just by optics, not principle, if Ronaldo's is a felony (I thought it was ugly and used that term myself during the game) then Thornton is whatever is worse. All good...I figured as much. "Felony" is accurate for Thornont. Just a little literary exaggeration with Rinaldo. On a scale of 1 to 10, Thornton is an 11. Rinaldo.....7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 All good...I figured as much."Felony" is accurate for Thornont. Just a little literary exaggeration with Rinaldo. On a scale of 1 to 10, Thornton is an 11. Rinaldo.....7.I'll buy that. And if you're scaling stupidity, use exponents for both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 In Neal's case... I think he knows full well what he's doing. I think he should sit a couple games for the head contact. I also give him credit a little, because despite it being Marchand and the history between those two, he doesn't try for a field goal. Marchand plays it up a bit but so what? ANY strike is a couple games off, but still.. I think Neal isn't quite the villain he's being made out to be by some people here. I am still aggravated that Steckel wasn't ever punished so I don't think that's a valid defense here either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 In Neal's case... I think he knows full well what he's doing. I think he should sit a couple games for the head contact. I also give him credit a little, because despite it being Marchand and the history between those two, he doesn't try for a field goal. Marchand plays it up a bit but so what? ANY strike is a couple games off, but still.. I think Neal isn't quite the villain he's being made out to be by some people here. I am still aggravated that Steckel wasn't ever punished so I don't think that's a valid defense here either. I think he's a villian given this offense and mixed with my overall opinion on him. But in a sick way I have to give a little credit for the sneaky way he did it and probably came close to getting away with it. The knee was just a little too exaggerated. A little less so and I think he makes a pretty good wide-eyed "I didn't see him!" case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 @B21 What Neal did was cowardly. There is no other way to state it and as several people will acknowledge, even Pen's fans the truth of that statement. Orpick's hit was up high, not targeting the head but contact was definitely made with the head. I did not in any way condone what Thornton did but I understand why he did it. He still should be and will be suspended. Rinaldo got talked into stupidity by Roussel who probably challenged him and then would not drop the gloves. THAT IS WHAT ROUSSEL DOES! Rinaldo got the punishment he deserved for being goaded into it. I bet it doesn't work the next time.That again is neither here nor there in this thread. This thread is about a COWARD that takes cheap shots whenever he thinks he can get away with it (NEAL). Don't let the video proof get in the way of your defense of said coward though........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 @B21 What Neal did was cowardly. There is no other way to state it and as several people will acknowledge, even Pen's fans the truth of that statement. Orpick's hit was up high, not targeting the head but contact was definitely made with the head. I did not in any way condone what Thornton did but I understand why he did it. He still should be and will be suspended. Rinaldo got talked into stupidity by Roussel who probably challenged him and then would not drop the gloves. THAT IS WHAT ROUSSEL DOES! Rinaldo got the punishment he deserved for being goaded into it. I bet it doesn't work the next time.That again is neither here nor there in this thread. This thread is about a COWARD that takes cheap shots whenever he thinks he can get away with it (NEAL). Don't let the video proof get in the way of your defense of said coward though...........I don't know of anyone, even Pens fans who have defended him. Am I wrong? Even Pens fans have said that he should get suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 @flyerrod@nossagogAgreed. Nobody defended Neal. @B21 just said he pictures him using the Steckel defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 @Polaris922@nossagogPerhaps I misread B21's post but I don't think so. My remarks about the homerism were definitely not pointed in either of your direction. Read B21's post and to me he wants Neal to have a free ride.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'll certainly concede that Neal is not above things like this and he has motive (Marchand boarded him pretty back in the ECF) but no way in h e l l you or anyone can say that was intentional with enough certainty to warrant a suspension. @Polaris922@nossagog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 @Polaris922@nossagogI think his point is Steckel used the same defense for concussing Crosby that Neal could try here and nobody can say beyond a doubt what Neal was aware of. I agree it was intentional but in fairness, that's my opinion. None of us can say he definitely saw him there. If this were a courtroom instead of the NHL he'd be found innocent if intent. The NHL standard of proof isn't quite as high though... I think that's his point. We all have an opinion, but none of us actually knows for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 @B21 What Neal did was cowardly. There is no other way to state it and as several people will acknowledge, even Pen's fans the truth of that statement. Orpick's hit was up high, not targeting the head but contact was definitely made with the head. I did not in any way condone what Thornton did but I understand why he did it. He still should be and will be suspended. Rinaldo got talked into stupidity by Roussel who probably challenged him and then would not drop the gloves. THAT IS WHAT ROUSSEL DOES! Rinaldo got the punishment he deserved for being goaded into it. I bet it doesn't work the next time.That again is neither here nor there in this thread. This thread is about a COWARD that takes cheap shots whenever he thinks he can get away with it (NEAL). Don't let the video proof get in the way of your defense of said coward though........... I agree with you on Neal so I'm not sure where you are going with that little dig. I did say it is going to be hard for the league to prove it. As for Orpik, "high" does...not....matter. As long as there is no contact with the head - which there isn't - nothing else about that hit matters. "I did not in any way condone what Thornton did but I understand why he did it." --> That is nothing more than a roundabout way of taking some responsibility from Thornton. Thornton is 1,000% wrong in this case and there are no excuses - none - for his actions. As for Roussel/Rinaldo - prove it. Not that being "talked into it" justifies anything. Did Rinaldo say that was the case? I haven't seen any such quotes. Again - roundabout way of taking away some of the blame from Rinaldo. That was a punk act by a punk player. You just seem unble to admit it. You go to great lengths to come up with some possibilities as to why Rinaldo was "goaded" into his punk act the say I am doing the same thing for Neal when I'm not. Time to wipe off those O&B goggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 @Polaris922@nossagogYeah - and the later... Don't disagree with anything except the Neal assessment. It's a maybe/maybe not situation. I think it was on purpose. No way to prove it was on purpose though. Neal can certainly make a reasonable defense for himself. If there is a suspension, it's purely on reputation/history and I know your stance on that. I think Neal gets away with one here.So let me make this crystal clear for you...again. I think it was intentional. I think he should get suspended for a few games. I don't think he will because the same defense that got Steckel off the hook could easily get Neal of the hook. At the end of the day it's a bang/bang play and Neal assumed defense, while not believed by my, could easily get him off. Tough to prove intent here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 "I did not in any way condone what Thornton did but I understand why he did it." --> That is nothing more than a roundabout way of taking some responsibility from Thornton. Thornton is 1,000% wrong in this case and there are no excuses - none - for his actions.Alright bub, if you have been reading my posts, I have not nor will I exempt Thornton for what he did. If you had read the Shout box that night you would have seen that I blamed the refs for not having control of the game. Rinaldo=dumb....not arguing that but that is not what this thread is about. You continue to steer away from the HEAD SHOT WITH A KNEE FROM A COWARD. You even admit he did it purposely(not necessarily provable) and continue to throw stuff at the walls and hope people will look away. I am not the guy wearing the glasses here...that would be you and your blind adoration of the COWARD....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would just like Neal to explain why the knee inexplicably comes out if he didn't see him. Does he ALWAYS skate like a spaz? I've never noticed that before. Once again, I think the evidence is petty clear. That and the arm immediately goes up. Simple incidental contact there doesn't draw a penalty. I think it's clear the ref had no doubt it was deliberate... Probably due to the knee sticking out. I'll be stunned if he gets less than five games in a league currently facing a lawsuit over shots to the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would just like Neal to explain why the knee inexplicably comes out if he didn't see him. Does he ALWAYS skate like a spaz? I've never noticed that before. Once again, I think the evidence is petty clear.That and the arm immediately goes up. Simple incidental contact there doesn't draw a penalty. I think it's clear the ref had no doubt it was deliberate... Probably due to the knee sticking out. I'll be stunned if he gets less than five games in a league currently facing a lawsuit over shots to the head.Must have been a skate that wasn't tied correctly. You know how you did on your first skates with the wobbly legs. Flyerrod, I must admit that I used a Stekel reference in another thread. But it was a sarcastic reference. I stated that Neal would use the same defense as Stekel, that he was just skating and didn't see Marchand on the ice. I'm not buying it, I'm just predicting his story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blocker Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Orpik's check was clean. I think Neal deliberately kneed Marchand. If I'd have been Neal, I probably would have done the same thing. But, he needs to pay. I like Thornton, but he did an awful thing. You don't punch the defenseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Flyerrod, I must admit that I used a Stekel reference in another thread. But it was a sarcastic reference. I stated that Neal would use the same defense as Stekel, that he was just skating and didn't see Marchand on the ice. I'm not buying it, I'm just predicting his story. nossagog, I am sorry if you saw my diatribe as being aimed at you because it most certainly was not. B21 is trying to pick up where fanatic left off with circle talking posts and it is my fault for continuing to answer his blinders on replies...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) nossagog, I am sorry if you saw my diatribe as being aimed at you because it most certainly was not. B21 is trying to pick up where fanatic left off with circle talking posts and it is my fault for continuing to answer his blinders on replies...... Don't worry, I don't take general statements in a forum personally and didn't have a problem with it at al, I've been around. I'll defend what is defensible and call my own players out when appropriate. Edited December 9, 2013 by nossagog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 1)Must have been a skate that wasn't tied correctly. You know how you did on your first skates with the wobbly legs. Flyerrod, I must admit that I used a Stekel reference in another thread. But it was a sarcastic reference. I stated that Neal would use the same defense as Stekel, that he was just skating and didn't see Marchand on the ice. 2) I'm not buying it, I'm just predicting his story. 1) LOL! 2) Yeah, I think that's a pretty good prediction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Alright bub, if you have been reading my posts, I have not nor will I exempt Thornton for what he did. If you had read the Shout box that night you would have seen that I blamed the refs for not having control of the game. Rinaldo=dumb....not arguing that but that is not what this thread is about. You continue to steer away from the HEAD SHOT WITH A KNEE FROM A COWARD. You even admit he did it purposely(not necessarily provable) and continue to throw stuff at the walls and hope people will look away. I am not the guy wearing the glasses here...that would be you and your blind adoration of the COWARD....... Again - bub. What stuff have I thrown at the wall on Neal? What more than "I think it was intentional..." do you need? You are the one who seems incapable of saying Rinaldo was a punk and Thornton was a bigger punk. No "Yeah he was but...". Just a simple "Yeah he was." will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 nossagog, I am sorry if you saw my diatribe as being aimed at you because it most certainly was not. B21 is trying to pick up where fanatic left off with circle talking posts and it is my fault for continuing to answer his blinders on replies...... Nice try, slick. But I've been here since the get go....back to Silly.com. And....off and on all day today. Sounds like you are taking the Thornton approach to a larger issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Neal and Thorton should both be suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Sounds like you are taking the Thornton approach to a larger issue. Sounds like you don't even have the ability to read the thread title......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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