Neal's Knee to head shot..is it suspension worthy?

[flyerrod]

The knee to the head of Marchand( I know, couldn't of happened to a nicer guy) but it was in my mind, it was  an intent to injure. I am sure it set off Thornton and caused the Orpick retaliation for his hit on Erikson(unpenalized) early in the period. Thornton will be suspended and no one, not even Bruins fans will argue that but will Neal be for his cheap shot?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GuVq-TZ7AJM

Edited December 8, 2013 by flyerrod

[nossagog]

I wouldn't have an issue if he got a few games for that, he probably could have avoided him.  Neal will probably use the Stekel defense, "I just kept skating my line and didn't see him". He's got a history for chippyness(As a true Pens homer, that's as far as I'm allowed call it)

 

I haven't seen a replay of the Orpik hit on Erikson yet, from what I've read on the web(which means it HAS to be true) if I ignore what fans of the two teams involved have said, it seems to be leaning towards a hard yet clean hit.  I'll have to see it to make a true decision.

[flyerrod]

haven't seen a replay of the Orpik hit on Erikson yet, from what I've read on the web(which means it HAS to be true) if I ignore what fans of the two teams involved have said, it seems to be leaning towards a hard yet clean hit. I'll have to see it to make a true decision.

As a hater of both teams I can honestly say I thought the hit by Orpick was on the high side and probably should have been at the least an interference penalty. That would have probably taken away some of the animosity that was left to build up leading to Thornton's actions.

 

 

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/826268438.gif

Edited December 8, 2013 by flyerrod

[hf101]

@nossagog

 

I put up a video in the other thread of Orpik's hit on Eriksson.  Eriksson wasn't looking however Orpik does make contact with Eriksson's head.

 

http://youtu.be/nvteW6mvasA

[Polaris922]

Orpik hit clean.

Neal contact questionable at worst. I want a closer view of that.

Thornton should be assault charges. Period.

[hf101]

Neal contact questionable at worst. I want a closer view of that.

 

this*

 

https://vine.co/v/hQmUUnDgEnx

[ruxpin]

Orpik's hit on Eriksson was direct contact to the head. I don't know whether it was intentional and I won't even call it dirty, but that's a suspension.  It's not a clean hit.  It's not a dirty hit, but it's illegal.

 

Neal's hit is the dictionary definition of dirty.  And illegal.  It was absolutely deliberate.  And cowardly.  Shameful.  Give me awhile and I'll come back with more adjectives.  He's pathetic.

 

Thornton's action was probably a result of the above two hits but that doesn't begin to come close to excusing it. 

 

If it were me and I'm running a league that is currently being sued over player safety specifically regarding head injuries, both Neal and Thornton get 20 games and Thornton probably faces aggravated assault charges.

[Polaris922]

Thanks for the zoom, especially on my phone. Neal deserves 3-5 games.

Thornton deserves criminal charges.

Unless you have a better view of the Orpik hit showing shoulder to head it looks center of the chest to me. I still say that was clean.

[nossagog]

Orpik's hit on Eriksson was direct contact to the head. I don't know whether it was intentional and I won't even call it dirty, but that's a suspension.  It's not a clean hit.  It's not a dirty hit, but it's illegal.

 

Neal's hit is the dictionary definition of dirty.  And illegal.  It was absolutely deliberate.  And cowardly.  Shameful.  Give me awhile and I'll come back with more adjectives.  He's pathetic.

 

Thornton's action was probably a result of the above two hits but that doesn't begin to come close to excusing it. 

 

If it were me and I'm running a league that is currently being sued over player safety specifically regarding head injuries, both Neal and Thornton get 20 games and Thornton probably faces aggravated assault charges.

I'll go ahead ahead and defend the Orpik hit on Erikson, but not the Neal knee.

 

Orpik's hit was a clean body check.  Is there contact to the head, yeah, I'll give you that. But that more because of Erikson body position, which is low because he's turning and reaching back for the puck. In Shanny terms, the head was not the principle point of contact.  It was not targeting, his elbow's down and he's coming directly at Louie from the front. A crushing check for sure, but I don't think it was illegal.

[ruxpin]

@nossagog

I put up a video in the other thread of Orpik's hit on Eriksson. Eriksson wasn't looking however Orpik does make contact with Eriksson's head.

http://youtu.be/nvteW6mvasA

Hits him square in the face... clearly. Can you think of an instance where a player is suspended for a bit in a game in which he himself was injured from a suspendable incident?

[ruxpin]

I'll go ahead ahead and defend the Orpik hit on Erikson, but not the Neal knee.

Orpik's hit was a clean body check. Is there contact to the head, yeah, I'll give you that. But that more because of Erikson body position, which is low because he's turning and reaching back for the puck. In Shanny terms, the head was not the principle point of contact. It was not targeting, his elbow's down and he's coming directly at Louie from the front. A crushing check for sure, but I don't think it was illegal.

The head is not only the principle point of contact, it's pretty much the only point of contact. It's hard to say, especially because the camera angle is from behind, but it doesn't seem to me that it was deliberate. Orpik can be rough and tumble but he doesn't usually come across as cheap to me. I think there is precedent, deliberate or not, for that hit to get a suspension. If I were to bet on this I would bet against suspension, especially because he's also injured later. Could go either way given it is Shanny and consistency is not part of the equation

[yave1964]

Absolutely a suspension worthy hit especially for a repeat offender. Toss him, he deserves a couple of games.

[mojo1917]

The Orpik hit on Erickkson was unfortunate since it looked to me like Loui's action to avoid the contact caused his melon to be the point of contact. For me, that play was so fast I would not suspend Orpik, maybe as @flyerrod says it could have been an interference penalty, maybe...I do disagree about a call there bringing the intensity down though the game had just started.

Neal on the other hand looked like a goddam Hanson brother, that was all the things @ruxpin wrote. No kidding that play looked like it was right out of slapshot, Crosby gets tangled with Marchand's skates Neal comes in and cleans him out.

Neal is a repeat offender and should miss some games, and recognize that Karma will run over his dogma . He keeps this up he will meet an unfortunate Kronwallian flying forearm... Just sayin'

[B21]

The knee to the head of Marchand( I know, couldn't of happened to a nicer guy) but it was in my mind, it was  an intent to injure. I am sure it set off Thornton and caused the Orpick retaliation for his hit on Erikson(unpenalized) early in the period. Thornton will be suspended and no one, not even Bruins fans will argue that but will Neal be for his cheap shot?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GuVq-TZ7AJM

 

Funny - of all the incidents yesterday...Thornton's assault on Orpik, Emery's...I mean Rinaldo's felony on Roussel (man - Flyers seem to have a habit of this) ...you chose to start a thread on Neal's knee on on Marchand which was questionable at best.

 

Marchand hit the ice a split second before Neal's knee made contact. Neal was already skating up ice. Watch the clip...not even a second elapses between Marchad hitting the ice and Neal's knee making contact.  Maybe he had time to miss. Maybe not. He certainly never looks at Marchand. Granted, it does look a lot worse in slow motion. 

 

Very similar to Steckel's hit on Crosby which I recall you not having an issue with.

 

I'll certainly concede that Neal is not above things like this and he has motive (Marchand boarded him pretty back in the ECF) but no way in h e l l you or anyone can say that was intentional with enough certainty to warrant a suspension.

 

Maybe if Marchand hadn't dove (and that was a blatant dive) he wouldn't have found himself in such a vulnerable position.

[B21]

Orpik hit clean.

Neal contact questionable at worst. I want a closer view of that.

Thornton should be assault charges. Period.

 

This.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

 Let's say that Neals knee is actually attached to, say, Zac Rinaldos body. And Marchands dive was actually done by. say, Sid. Same contact.

 

 20 games?

[B21]

The head is not only the principle point of contact, it's pretty much the only point of contact. It's hard to say, especially because the camera angle is from behind, but it doesn't seem to me that it was deliberate. Orpik can be rough and tumble but he doesn't usually come across as cheap to me. I think there is precedent, deliberate or not, for that hit to get a suspension. If I were to bet on this I would bet against suspension, especially because he's also injured later. Could go either way given it is Shanny and consistency is not part of the equation

 

Gotta disagree Rux (respectfully of course). I don't see any contact to the head from the front angle.  Contact was to Ericksson's sternum/shoulder. No way a player goes from skating up ice to flying back like Ericksson did if the only point of contact is the head.

[B21]

@B21

 

 Let's say that Neals knee is actually attached to, say, Zac Rinaldos body. And Marchands dive was actually done by. say, Sid. Same contact.

 

 20 games?

 

Wrong thread.

 

And no.

[flyercanuck]

Wrong thread.

 

And no.

 

 My mistake...I thought this was the "Neal's Knee to head shot..is it suspension worthy? " thread.

. And I've already seen Rinaldos name brought up even though he wasn't in the game. Neal may not get penalized like Rinaldo, but he's every bit the cheapshot artist. He just happens to do it "avoiding hits".

[B21]

 My mistake...I thought this was the "Neal's Knee to head shot..is it suspension worthy? " thread.

. And I've already seen Rinaldos name brought up even though he wasn't in the game. Neal may not get penalized like Rinaldo, but he's every bit the cheapshot artist. He just happens to do it "avoiding hits".

 

Exactly...and that has what to do with Crosby and Rinaldo??

 

I can play that game, too.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

Just trying to put it into black and gold perspective. I'd imagine bloody murder being screamed if it happened that way, and that Rinaldo should get the chair. Neal (who's done this type of stuff not just once, not twice, not three times) will get a slap on the wrist after another bs story.

 

 

 .

[B21]

@B21

 

Just trying to put it into black and gold perspective. I'd imagine bloody murder being screamed if it happened that way, and that Rinaldo should get the chair. Neal (who's done this type of stuff not just once, not twice, not three times) will get a slap on the wrist after another bs story.

 

 

 .

 

I'm not going to fault Neal or any other player for feeding the league a BS story to get out of a suspension. Players are supposed to do that. Up to the league to see through that and we all know they are lacking in that regard.  That's a debate for another day.

 

I said it before...I wouldn't put it past Neal to take advantage of this "opportunity".  He's skating up ice and all of a sudden Marchand dives in front of him. He recalls Marchand boarding him in the ECF so gives him a knee to the head. Or maybe he really didn't see him in time to avoid him and maybe he forgot about that boarding.

 

Now - maybe James Neal can process all of that in :01. Maybe not. He certainly didn't go out of his way to knee Marchand in the head. The guy fell in front of him as his skating up ice.  It probably is a crime of opportunity and I would not raise hell if he was suspended a few but I can't kill the league if they buy the explanation I just gave that he will likely use as well.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

 Looked like a pretty strange single stride with his knee sticking out. I have no issue with Orpiks hit. He had the right to throw it (it appeared Ericckson had the puck) and didn't target the head (though he may well have connected with it.) But Neal has gone after the head of several players now. Orpik plays hard. Neal is dirty.

[B21]

@B21

 

 Looked like a pretty strange single stride with his knee sticking out. I have no issue with Orpiks hit. He had the right to throw it (it appeared Ericckson had the puck) and didn't target the head (though he may well have connected with it.) But Neal has gone after the head of several players now. Orpik plays hard. Neal is dirty.

 

Don't disagree with anything except the Neal assessment. It's a maybe/maybe not situation. I think it was on purpose. No way to prove it was on purpose though.  Neal can certainly make a reasonable defense for himself.  If there is a suspension, it's purely on reputation/history and I know your stance on that.

 

I think Neal gets away with one here.

[ruxpin]

Funny - of all the incidents yesterday...Thornton's assault on Orpik, Emery's...I mean Rinaldo's felony on Roussel (man - Flyers seem to have a habit of this) ...you chose to start a thread on Neal's knee on on Marchand which was questionable at best.

Marchand hit the ice a split second before Neal's knee made contact. Neal was already skating up ice. Watch the clip...not even a second elapses between Marchad hitting the ice and Neal's knee making contact. Maybe he had time to miss. Maybe not. He certainly never looks at Marchand. Granted, it does look a lot worse in slow motion.

Very similar to Steckel's hit on Crosby which I recall you not having an issue with.

I'll certainly concede that Neal is not above things like this and he has motive (Marchand boarded him pretty back in the ECF) but no way in h e l l you or anyone can say that was intentional with enough certainty to warrant a suspension.

Maybe if Marchand hadn't dove (and that was a blatant dive) he wouldn't have found himself in such a vulnerable position.

Looking at the video I can say with complete assurance that break DELIBERATELY but casually sticks his knee out and would not have made head contact if he hadn't. It's really crystal clear. The ref immediately behind instantly puts his and up as is quite clear it's no accident.

The Rinaldo thing isn't even comparable and it's quite a joke that it comes up as done sort of comparison.

Rinaldo was utterly stupid in what it did to his own team. But the guy was completely standing, saw him coming, and chose not to fight back even though he's perfectly capable.

In Neal's case the guy is completely lying helpless on the ice and coward puke boy pulls his crap. He's not even a man.