Trade deadline talk

[B21]

Agree on Depres but I'll give Bortuzzo some credit lately. He's really been physical in our zone trying to establish a presence. Still learning though as everyone can see.

As for Jagr he might just be perfect for Sid's wing IF he can stay up. He's not fast anymore but was always smart, and that sometimes trumps speed.

 

I still like Depres over Bortuzzo. He's much better with the puck thought Bortuzzo knows his role and plays it well.

[nossagog]

Couldn't agree more.

 

Depres > Bortuzzo > Engelland

Actually, I like Engelland in the role of the fourth line wing.  He's physical, will drop the gloves if needed, and can fill in if a defender has to leave a game. 

[nossagog]

Well there was that second game, and again I see nothing to make me happy about their play, especially on the back end.  5 goals against with 4 of those goals on odd mad breaks.  And again, great issues coming out of their own zone under pressure.    I think the Pens have to make a move on defense, or their not going very far in the playoffs.  I think if they stand pat, they are going to struggle down the stretch, good think they have such a lead in the Metro.

[Polaris922]

Letang's has been placed on IR. As has Dupuis. I'm ok with leaving the defense be. They've gone long stretches of the season without Letang and Martin. They need to pick it up though.

[nossagog]

Letang's has been placed on IR. As has Dupuis. I'm ok with leaving the defense be. They've gone long stretches of the season without Letang and Martin. They need to pick it up though.

 

But this is regular season hockey, its easier on the defense now.  I cringe thinking of playing a hard forechecking team like the Isles or the Habs in the playoffs and seeing the defense as it is now being constantly pressured.  I just don't think that they can handle it.

[flyercanuck]

@nossagog

 

 You're worried about the Isles? Without Tavares? (snicker) :blink:

[B21]

Actually, I like Engelland in the role of the fourth line wing.  He's physical, will drop the gloves if needed, and can fill in if a defender has to leave a game. 

 

I do, too.  I meant strictly on D with Depres > Bortuzzo > Engelland. But no issue with Engelland as a 4th line wing at all.

[nossagog]

@nossagog

 

 You're worried about the Isles? Without Tavares? (snicker) :blink:

 

Its the style, not the player. The Isles play a tenacious forecheck, without Letang and Martin(at least he should be back) and Orpik playing so bad, the Pens defense is going to get bashed.

[flyercanuck]

@nossagog

 

 Well if you're playing the Isles after mid-April you're likely golfing.

[nossagog]

@nossagog

 

 Well if you're playing the Isles after mid-April you're likely golfing.

True

[nossagog]

Self Assessment  of needs coming up to the trade deadline:

 

Goaltending: Fleury/Zatkoff      Above average.   It all depends on MAF in the playoffs.  Stand pat with what we have

 

Forwards -   After starting off with two of the best centers in the league, the Pens go down hill from there.   A top line of Kunitz-Crosby-pickyourprospect is not going to hack it going into the playoffs. Right now, its Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons, and although Crosby is creating chances, they're for the most part being wasted on Kunitz and Gibbons. Kunitz, although he has decent numbers on Sid's wing, the Crosby/Kunitz pair will never be seen in a light like Getzlaf/Perry.  Kunitz just doesn't have the pure talent, and is more of a grinder/jammer.   Crosby STILL does not have a talented wing to compliment his skills.   This line is short a Scoring winger to reach its potential.

 

The second line of Neal-Malkin- 5thbestforward continues at the moment with Jussi Jokinen on the wing.  Malkin and Neal work well together, and create many chances, but Jussi is not a great fit on their wing.  He's not a puck retriever, so he does not bring alot to this line. He's got decent numbers, but is better fit to the third line.This line is short a puck retrieving/scoring winger to be at its potential.

 

From there, things go down hill, other than Sutter, the bottom six is a mix and match of grinders who are interchangable, and all have issues scoring goals. There is no secondary scoring for the team past the top two lines.  The BEST that they can field for a third line at the moment is Vitale-Sutter-Adams THAT's THE THIRD line. The forth line for bangers is Pyatt-doubleshiftSid/Geno-Egelland/Glass/whatever.  A true third line is needed for this team.  Two forwards to compliment Sutter to become a shutdown set would be good.  If Jokinen could be pushed down to the third line, only one would be need, and the fourth line could be made up of Pyatt-Adams-Engelland for banging.

 

Defensively with the injuries to Martin and Letang, the team is truely hurting,  we have depth at 2nd/3rd pairing guys, but losing both puck moving defensemen is a killer.

 

Niskanen/Matta is a good pair, but this is NOT a top pairing for a contender

Orpik/Scuderi sounds like a great shutdown pair, but this is NOT the Orpik of a few years back. He's a shell of himself.

Bortozzo/Despres/Engelland is a weak third pairing.  ONE of them paired with a veteran would be okay, but a pairing of Bortozzo/Despres have a hard time getting out of their own zone too often. Bortozzo now offers us our only physical defenseman.

Addition of a veteran defender would be good, Martin should be back for the playoffs, but I'd like to see Orpik moved and someone else in his place, he's lost his physical edge, and the pens not struggle in front of their own net and clearing the zone.

 

I seriously worry about the style of play of the Pens in the playoffs also.  Dump and grind is going to be hard if you do not have the talent to retrieve the puck and create chances. The amount of interference coming back into the league means that dump and chase teams will once again struggle. Bylsma's strick adherence to backing into the defensive zone and NOT take advantage of the lax rules also means more pressure on the defense as teams get set up in the zone TOO easily  Also, because of the difficulties of the "shutdown" line, Coach Dan is now using Crosby's line to shutdown the other lines top line. Seems to be a waste, create a true shutdown line, and let Crosby loose.

 

In the end, I really don't see the Pens as being a favorite for the cup this year, regardless of them being atop the standings in the east at the moment.  I think that there are too many pieces missing to address at the trade deadline.  Getting Bennet and Martin back for the playoffs is going to help, and the developement of Matta and Megna will help next year, but the biggest issue right now is depth at forward past out top 5, the rest are just a bunch of grinders who are a dime a dozen.

[Polaris922]

@nossagog

 

I agree with a lot of your points.  I feel Jokinen is a streaky player, as he always has been.  When he's on the upside he's more than adequate for the Malkin/Neal line, but when he's down he's just another 3rd liner, so agree with your point that he deserves to be with Sutter IF we can find a replacement.

 

So who do you go after to replace the gaps in our top six forwards?  BY rights we should be pursuing two of them...  I agree wholeheartedly with Matt Moulson.  He would be a good shot with Junitz and Crosby.  I agree Kunitz isn't the Perry to Crosby, but who is?  Kunitz goes to the net hard, and is at 27 goals and plus 23.  I think he fits perfectly on Sid's wing, as he DOES go into the corners and bring the puck out for Sid, and he's not afraid to bang in the slot to get the shot.  So what would Moulson cost them?  $3.9 million a season IF he resigns at his current rate.  And he'd give no discount...  this is a team that let him go once already, remember?  Fortunately the Pens have $16 million free after this season with only a few UFA's I think would be important to resign....  maybe they could make it work.  

 

Assuming you get that covered... who do you go after for Malkin's line?  There are a lot of names out there being discussed... Eberle, Vanek, Hemsky...  but who is actually affordable?  And of them who do you actually want?  

 

I actually like Engelland on the third line.  He goes to the net hard, and has scored in tight.  If he were with Sutter and using your example, Jokinen.. I'd be all for it.  

 

As for the fourth line.. it is what it is, and that's not changing anytime soon. 

 

Defense...  I really don't mind our defense as it is.  I understand your point about playoff hockey being different, but that's why I want Depres and Bortuzzo getting their ice time now.  Orpik isn't what he used to be, but come playoff time, every year, he steps up his game.  He is a guy who gives it all in the playoffs, and I think will do even more so this year as he may be on his last contract year in the NHL.  Martin will be back... hopefully... so you will have Orpik/Martin, Niskanen/Bortuzzo, Scuderi/Depres with Engelland in the wings.  I like those pairings, as Depres will benefit from a steady Scuds behind him, and Niskanen's offensive upside offsets Bortuzzo's lack of one.  If Martin doesn't come back by then, we'll be short back there, but Engelland is a fill in.  I'd actually prefer they bring up Poulliot right now and leave Engelland on wing.  Give the kid some more ice time in the bigs to get the experience.  NO pressure, just play.  Not for the playoffs, mind you, just till Martin gets back or the playoffs start.  

 

Goaltending is fine... if Fleury's shrink is any good. 

 

 

I'm not going to say we're favorites from the East, because they've shown they can stop playing any time they want to.  But other than the Bruins, I don't see any threats right now in a seven game series.  History shows that changes when the playoffs start. 

 

If I were Shero.. I'd look for two wingers.  You've got $4,695,000 in cap space if you put Letang on IR...  that's really not enough space for two scoring wingers.  Say you can add $550,000 by dropping a Gibbons or Chris Connor back to the A...  still barely enough to bring in Vanek.  No room for anything else.  So realistically you may only be able to afford ONE winger...  say you drop TWO AHL'ers back down...  you have to pick up two better wingers for $5,795,000.  That's not going to be easy.   

[nossagog]

@Polaris922 

I'd like to know the honest status of Bennet at this point.  I'd rather see him step into Geno's line and push Jussi down to the third line.  That reunites the second line where we thought we'd be all year. 

 

If we go after Kessler, and it costs us Sutter, it completely blows up the third line, which is shakey already.     If you put Kessler there, your wasting him on grinders, and you haven't addressed the needs of the team.

 

I'd rather see what Buffalo wants for Moulson and try to retain Sutter.  That would give Crosby Kunitz and Moulson, and a third line of Sutter Jussi and lets say Pyatt.  The problem here is, Buffalo has sooooo many picks, they probabaly are going to want roster players too.  Who do we have to give them?  Despres and a pick won't be enough and the rest of our bottom six(or ten) are not trade worthy.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 

I'd like to know the honest status of Bennet at this point.  I'd rather see him step into Geno's line and push Jussi down to the third line.  That reunites the second line where we thought we'd be all year. 

 

If we go after Kessler, and it costs us Sutter, it completely blows up the third line, which is shakey already.     If you put Kessler there, your wasting him on grinders, and you haven't addressed the needs of the team.

 

I'd rather see what Buffalo wants for Moulson and try to retain Sutter.  That would give Crosby Kunitz and Moulson, and a third line of Sutter Jussi and lets say Pyatt.  The problem here is, Buffalo has sooooo many picks, they probabaly are going to want roster players too.  Who do we have to give them?  Despres and a pick won't be enough and the rest of our bottom six(or ten) are not trade worthy.

 

Agreed... it's going to be an interesting two days I think.  I trust Shero (as if I have a choice).  Just have to see what pans out...  Bennett could be the answer to one of those slots.  I like the Sutter/Moulson idea too.  Shero seems to pull stuff out of his hat though, so it's gonna be fun finding out what he does.  

[Mad Dog]

Honestly, you guys need to shore up the defense - just like we do.  Kessler is not going to help overcome defensive flaws both of our teams have.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922  Seems to me the #1 problem the Pens have is Fleury in the playoffs.....so why not try to shore that up, to make sure he has the best support possible....that should be their main concern, with a scoring winger a distant second.

[Polaris922]

@jammer2

Well... I think Vokoun proved that's not an issue already. He played lights out, we just couldn't score.

[B21]

@Polaris922  Seems to me the #1 problem the Pens have is Fleury in the playoffs.....so why not try to shore that up, to make sure he has the best support possible....that should be their main concern, with a scoring winger a distant second.

 

Can you trade for a Sports Psychologist?  2nd round pick should do it, no?

 

In all seriousness, whatever trades they make or don't make really take a back seat to MAF.  They will live or die by him in the playoffs and there is nothing they can do but play him and hope for 2007-08 and 2008-09 MAF.

[jammer2]

@B21  This years playoffs will be the most stressful thing MAF will ever go through. At risk, his direct job as #1 goalie, his status league wide as a top goalie, his future earnings....they all rest on this years post season performance. I have no doubt, if he sucks again, he is done on the Penguins, and maybe even done as a starting goalie, no contender would take a shot at him, he would have to go trolling on the Islanders of the world....the Pens would just buy out his last year of the current deal....at 5 mill the buy out would be really cheap. This is literally his last chance in my humble opinion.

[B21]

@B21  This years playoffs will be the most stressful thing MAF will ever go through. At risk, his direct job as #1 goalie, his status league wide as a top goalie, his future earnings....they all rest on this years post season performance. I have no doubt, if he sucks again, he is done on the Penguins, and maybe even done as a starting goalie, no contender would take a shot at him, he would have to go trolling on the Islanders of the world....the Pens would just buy out his last year of the current deal....at 5 mill the buy out would be really cheap. This is literally his last chance in my humble opinion.

 

Agree with everything except the part about this being his last chance in the NHL.  Someone will take a shot on him.  He still has some equity left from the SCF in 07-08 and the Cup in 08-09 (he actually played better the year they lost).

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

The fact that he's still capable of being a good regular season netminder gives value to teams trying to make the playoffs. I just don't see a real contender wanting him as their #1.

 

 Unless of course he does a complete about face this postseason...in which case you guys would then likely keep him.

[B21]

@B21

 

The fact that he's still capable of being a good regular season netminder gives value to teams trying to make the playoffs. I just don't see a real contender wanting him as their #1.

 

 Unless of course he does a complete about face this postseason...in which case you guys would then likely keep him.

 

Agree. My someone was seen as a team in the situation you just described.  One usually on the outside looking in and in need of an upgrade in net.

[brelic]

Forwards -   After starting off with two of the best centers in the league, the Pens go down hill from there.   A top line of Kunitz-Crosby-pickyourprospect is not going to hack it going into the playoffs. Right now, its Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons, and although Crosby is creating chances, they're for the most part being wasted on Kunitz and Gibbons. Kunitz, although he has decent numbers on Sid's wing, the Crosby/Kunitz pair will never be seen in a light like Getzlaf/Perry.  Kunitz just doesn't have the pure talent, and is more of a grinder/jammer.   Crosby STILL does not have a talented wing to compliment his skills.   This line is short a Scoring winger to reach its potential.
 
The second line of Neal-Malkin- 5thbestforward continues at the moment with Jussi Jokinen on the wing.  Malkin and Neal work well together, and create many chances, but Jussi is not a great fit on their wing.  He's not a puck retriever, so he does not bring alot to this line. He's got decent numbers, but is better fit to the third line.This line is short a puck retrieving/scoring winger to be at its potential.

 

Did Neal ever play on Crosby's wing? Just curious. From an outsider's perspective, I would think them to be a wicked combination.

 

And how do you guys feel about Shero basically standing pat (Goc and Stempniak notwithstanding)?

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

 I think Neal was initially brought in to be Crosbys winger...but there was no chemistry, or at least not as much as he had with malkin.

[B21]

@brelic

 

 I think Neal was initially brought in to be Crosbys winger...but there was no chemistry, or at least not as much as he had with malkin.

 

That was the plan.  When Neal was aquired Crosby was out with the concussion from the Steckel and Hedman hits.  Malkin went down with the torn knee ligaments shortly before the Neal trade. 

 

Crosby was still out when the 2011-12 season started so Neal was put on Malkin's line.  They clicked and he's been there ever since.