Pittsburgh's John Gibson Wins NHL Debut

[OccamsRazor]

Oh yeah... we were talking about John Gibson right? He's gonna be a good one.

 

 

I sure hope he stands on his head tonight. I think the Ducks Dmen have to do a better job of either blocking the damn shot or getting the eff out the way and let him see it. Hard for anyone to stop some of them crazy deflections. For his youth he has impressed me a lot.

 

Seems Sbisa has fallen out of favor there too. It would be nice to see the Flyers to bring him back.

 

I'm just pulling for the Ducks cause there is really noone on their team i dislike.

 

And have always wanted Selanne as a Flyer always loved his game.

[JackStraw]

And have always wanted Selanne as a Flyer always loved his game.

 

Is there anyone who doesn't like Teemu Selanne? The guy must be one of the most universally well-liked players ever.

[OccamsRazor]

Is there anyone who doesn't like Teemu Selanne? The guy must be one of the most universally well-liked players ever.

 

Yeah right. In the pre game the other night they were talking about in the Olympics when Derian Hatcher hit him with a high stick and they asked him about it and losing 6 teeth he said" That he would let them take all his teeth for a Gold medal for Finland."

 

Man ya got to love to hear a player say that he gets it and is a complete team player.

 

To bad he isn't a LW...would love for him to play one year with the Flyers even at his age....i'd take him over Vinny in a heartbeat.

[Vanflyer]

I'd just feel more comfy with Gotsbeer? playing either a little bigger, or having a bigger guy with him. Coburn works, or Morin down the line hopefully.

 

This was my point. The speed of the game he can pick up, but the size of the game is tough. I get what OR is saying about "smaller" guys playing at the NHL level, but almost nearly everyone he sited as a comparison was a forward. I don't mind smallish dmen, but their is rational / practical to stupid. OR sited you cant touch what you can't catch. Perhaps that is true for forwards, but not so for dmen (Coffey / Borque being the exception to the rule). 

 

I mentioned the size because of the defensive side of the game, not the offensive (while still a factor). I think Ghost is something like 170 lbs. At the NHL level, its going to be very hard to win defensive battles at that weight. I think ghost plays 200 ft of the ice, and by no means to I want to insinuate that he would have the impact of this, but look at a guy like Erik Karlson. He even is 180lbs. My point being is that I think Ghost needs a bit more in the salt and pepper area and add some size so he can sustain. 

 

OR also sited that Ghost is 21 and will not physically develop much more. I call complete BS on that. I watch Manny Pacquiao put on / drop 5 / 10 lbs at 35 years of age for the weight class he needs to fight at. When I played, I easily added 10 lbs (not Mike York lbs). 

 

While we were all dazzled by Ghosts wheels and prowess in that game against Minny, many people forget that he was a non-factor in the BC game of the same tournament. The point being, don't let one shining star game be the catalyst for pushing a player.

[Vanflyer]

Is there anyone who doesn't like Teemu Selanne? The guy must be one of the most universally well-liked players ever.

 

He is Bill Masterton reincarnate. There are many "good" guys in the NHL, but rarely are there guys with his ability that are just good human beings. Joe Sakic also comes to mind in speaking of that type of demeanor + ability. 

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer

 

 I hope not but that game may end up being the best he ever plays.

 

 I prefer my Dmen bigger as well. I'm hoping he can bulk up a bit without losing too much speed.

[Vanflyer]

I'm hoping he can bulk up a bit without losing too much speed.

 

This is always the crux. Its actually not always about weight / muscle but how to use it. To OR point, I have seen slim guys deck guys that are bigger than they are. There are two things that concern me: 

 

1) ability to sustain hits from bigger players

 

2) ability to endure d-man punishment in the corners / front of the net

 

Both of these are at the NHL level. 

 

That said, that final F-4 game was impressive. Usually if I turn on a junior (or even AHL game) I immediately notice the difference in pace. I felt as if I was at least watching and AHL game. Meaning that the skill / pace level has improved significantly (and I have been to 3 WJC tournaments / 2 memorial cup tournaments). 

 

So, if he can put on a bit of weight to sustain the big boys, I think the speed of play is already there for him. 

[OccamsRazor]

@JackStraw....on conversation the other day

 

 

Posted Yesterday, 01:02 PM

JackStraw, on 15 May 2014 - 1:51 PM, said:

Well, if Kimmo comes back for another year then they him and Streit to run the 1st and 2nd PP. There is also Gus, if they re-sign him. I don't think filling a specific need like 2nd PP is a good enough reason to rush a guy like Ghost, unless maybe that's all you ever want him to be. Even though he 9 game rule doesn't apply to him, I'd still rather not see him bounce back and forth between the Flyers and the Phantoms.

 

I agree he needs to be left a lone if he is sent down all that yo yoing to me is what has got Gus screwed up.

 

And it pisses me off that they did that to him instead of letting Gus work through his growing pains. And i read where they may lose him cause he is happy with how they have handled him.

 

He even stated he can learn sitting in the box and i agree with him.

 

Growing pains are part of the growth and hell he has been moved around so much with different partners i would be shocked if he is moved and goes on the be another Flyer prospect everyone later will bitch about "who got away"....you know the story.

 

Any ways it seems we have hi jacked this thread  and i don't want to do that.

 

Well looks like i was right what i heard didn't expect it so soon....great job Berube!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OccamsRazor]

OR also sited that Ghost is 21 and will not physically develop much more. I call complete BS on that. I watch Manny Pacquiao put on / drop 5 / 10 lbs at 35 years of age for the weight class he needs to fight at. When I played, I easily added 10 lbs (not Mike York lbs).

 

That is easy as hell all you have to do is increase your protein and carbs yet keep the fat intake down still and salt intake up drink more water.

 

80% of muscle is water. Water weight always fluctuate that is why you see guys jog with the plastic bag on trying to sweat to lose the water. 

 

And Gus played at 175 in the title game he ain't far off. Even the BIggest guys can get hurt if you put yourself in a vulnerable situation. He is mart and will play smart but cheap shots happen all the time anywhere. 

[OccamsRazor]

@Vanflyer

 

List of small Dmen in the NHL.

 

Jared Spurgeon: 5-9 169 played his first game on his 21st birthday.

 

Tobias Enstrom:5-10 180

 

Sami Vatenen: 5-10 180

 

Kris Russell: 5-10 173

 

Brian Connelly: 5-10 180

 

Alex Goligoski: 5-10 182

 

Ryan Ellis: 5-10 175

 

Torey Krug: 5-9 180

 

Mike Weaver :5-10 180

 

Erik Karlsson: 6 180

 

John Micheal LIles 5-10 180

 

Matt Taormina 5-10 182

 

Peter Harold: 5-10 180

 

Marek Zidlicky: 5-11 185

 

Gus: 5-10 180

 

Jack Hillen: 5-10 185

 

 

So the list is pretty long with under sized Dmen in the league. And besides the biggest muscle their is no measurement for and that is the HEART! Also back then when i was in excellent shape @ 21 iwas 5-11 165!!!!

 

Not that i'm not a hockey player(but i did stay at a holiday inn)  but that is the one thing i always loved to hear is about my size...and to question it i'd just have to work harder to prove them wrong it's just a number.

[OccamsRazor]

And don't forget the Flyer killer Brian Rafalski: 5-10 185

[Vanflyer]

@Vanflyer

 

List of small Dmen in the NHL.

 

Jared Spurgeon: 5-9 169 played his first game on his 21st birthday.

 

Tobias Enstrom:5-10 180

 

Sami Vatenen: 5-10 180

 

Kris Russell: 5-10 173

 

Brian Connelly: 5-10 180

 

Alex Goligoski: 5-10 182

 

Ryan Ellis: 5-10 175

 

Torey Krug: 5-9 180

 

Mike Weaver :5-10 180

 

Erik Karlsson: 6 180

 

John Micheal LIles 5-10 180

 

Matt Taormina 5-10 182

 

Peter Harold: 5-10 180

 

Marek Zidlicky: 5-11 185

 

Gus: 5-10 180

 

Jack Hillen: 5-10 185

 

 

So the list is pretty long with under sized Dmen in the league. And besides the biggest muscle their is no measurement for and that is the HEART! Also back then when i was in excellent shape @ 21 iwas 5-11 165!!!!

 

Not that i'm not a hockey player(but i did stay at a holiday inn)  but that is the one thing i always loved to hear is about my size...and to question it i'd just have to work harder to prove them wrong it's just a number.

 

 

It looks like we are in complete agreement. Ghost (not gus) is 170 lbs. 95% of the players you listed are 180 lbs or more. That is all I am saying. He needs a bit more muscle / water for the NHL level. I will agree that hockey smarts goes a long way in having the ability to make the jump to the next level regardless of size. 

 

When I played (div 1), I was always a bigger player (think leclaire). There was a guy on my team my same height as me (6'2) and maybe 170 lbs soaking wet. He had incredible leg strength and hockey smarts. But he was a center and not a d-man. But to you point, it is not without reason that it can not be done, but I just would rather error on the side of caution for developments sake. 

[OccamsRazor]

Ghost (not gus) is 170 lbs.

 

Ghost when last reported during the title game by Bucigross was up to 175 lbs. Not nitpicking just saying.

[notfondajane]

Funny thing is they have no need for Miller.  They traded away Fasth, and still have Andersen and Gibson in the wings.  Behind Hiller who has somehow fallen out of favor.  Plenty deep at Goaltender there!

how do you know? You know what you are looking at?

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer

 

List of small Dmen in the NHL.

 

Jared Spurgeon: 5-9 169 played his first game on his 21st birthday.

 

Tobias Enstrom:5-10 180

 

Sami Vatenen: 5-10 180

 

Kris Russell: 5-10 173

 

Brian Connelly: 5-10 180

 

Alex Goligoski: 5-10 182

 

Ryan Ellis: 5-10 175

 

Torey Krug: 5-9 180

 

Mike Weaver :5-10 180

 

Erik Karlsson: 6 180

 

John Micheal LIles 5-10 180

 

Matt Taormina 5-10 182

 

Peter Harold: 5-10 180

 

Marek Zidlicky: 5-11 185

 

Gus: 5-10 180

 

Jack Hillen: 5-10 185

 

 

So the list is pretty long with under sized Dmen in the league. And besides the biggest muscle their is no measurement for and that is the HEART! Also back then when i was in excellent shape @ 21 iwas 5-11 165!!!!

 

Not that i'm not a hockey player(but i did stay at a holiday inn)  but that is the one thing i always loved to hear is about my size...and to question it i'd just have to work harder to prove them wrong it's just a number.

 

 

 One thing that a lot of people don't factor in....smaller d-men usually have a built in radar to protect themselves against bigger players....they almost all have a FANTASTIC skill....protecting the puck with your body....using your body as a shield to defend against getting your pocket picked. Ryan Ellis, a very small d-man for the Spits used this skill almost every time he hit the ice. I find a lot of these smaller types are experts at this skill.

[OccamsRazor]

One thing that a lot of people don't factor in....smaller d-men usually have a built in radar to protect themselves against bigger players....they almost all have a FANTASTIC skill....protecting the puck with your body....using your body as a shield to defend against getting your pocket picked. Ryan Ellis, a very small d-man for the Spits used this skill almost every time he hit the ice. I find a lot of these smaller types are experts at this skill.

Speaking of smaller players i hope Danick Martel can become the Flyer's version of Tyler Johnson about the same size both went undrafted and both scored pretty similar numbers their last year of junior...keeping fingers crossed!!!

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor  I liked what I saw from Martel when I watched him for a few games....he certainly has NHL skills and speed....but he is very soft on the puck. He need some coaching, cause the stuff that he pulls, like cheery picking at the blue line....it won't fly as a pro....but as long as he is coachable, he has a real shot at being a legit NHL player. The only problem I can see is....he's a tweener. His skill set dictates he must be a top 6 forward, cause his defense is not nearly good enough to be a bottom six. You see this kinda stuff a lot, he has a LOT of work to do, but the God given talent is undeniable. At the NHL or AHL level, he will be in the top 5% of pure skating ability.

 

 At the very least, he will fill the net at the AHL level, at the very most, he will score 20+ goals at the NHL level and be a fantastic addition to the Flyers 2nd power play unit. With Martel, it will all come down to his ability to be coached and his work ethic in his all round game.