The BSchenn Experiment Lasted Almost Five Periods

[radoran]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20141014_B__Schenn_experiment_over_for_now.html

 

 

 

Schenn's experiment on the top line with Claude Giroux and Jake Voracek did not last five full periods during the regular season. He was pulled from the line during the second period of last Thursday's loss to New Jersey.

...

"You don't gain that chemistry like you would if you're going to be playing with someone every other day," Schenn said. "You know, it usually takes more than a couple games for most guys. Another new linemate, you've just got to adapt as soon as possible.

...

Strangely, now with center Vinny Lecavalier (foot) out for a couple weeks, Berube seems set on keeping Schenn on the left wing. He seems to be playing his best hockey at center. Instead, Pierre-Edouard Bellemare will slide up from the fourth line to the second line to center Schenn and leading scorer Wayne Simmonds.

"Vinny is out right now, but he's going to be back," Berube explained. "I don't want to mess around too much. I'd rather leave on the wing and see how it goes. Overall, game has to get quicker. Quicker and stronger. He needs to move his feet and win more battles."

 

Deal the Schenns now. Seriously.

[DaGreatGazoo]

"You don't gain that chemistry like you would if you're going to be playing with someone every other day," Schenn said. "You know, it usually takes more than a couple games for most guys. Another new linemate, you've just got to adapt as soon as possible.

 

He sounds as frustrated as we do....

[radoran]

He sounds as frustrated as we do....

 

I really don't understand how they are "developing" BSchenn at all.

 

He's a center! He's a wing! It's a floor wax! It's a dessert topping!

 

He's playing 1st line wing! Now 2nd line wing! Tomorrow maybe 3rd line wing!

 

Did I say "tomorrow"? Wait 20 minutes.

 

He's disappointing! He's injury prone!

 

Deal him now! His value will never be higher!

[mojo1917]

Well he can you know ******* produce while he's playing on the top line... so far he has looked lost, ineffective, even nervous.

 

if he were winning battles, creating space, finding space, putting shots on the net , he'd still be there, he hasn't and that line has been borderline poor so far this year, they can't get out of the defensive zone , what's Brayden's contribution to that.

 

Again this is just the eyeball test, but he has shown nothing on the wing with G and Jake, but he has been better at least noticeable when he's played elsewhere. 

there is not one shift where i though, you know this could be good, the way i did when he was with simmer and jvr back in a day. 

 

i feel for him some but really he needs to shut the **** up and start producing.

[radoran]

he hasn't and that line has been borderline poor so far this year, they can't get out of the defensive zone , what's Brayden's contribution to that.

 

What about the MVP candidate on that line? What's his contribution to that?

 

Again this is just the eyeball test, but he has shown nothing on the wing with G and Jake,

 

And, for that matter, vice versa...

 

i feel for him some but really he needs to shut the **** up and start producing.

 

True. And that's true for the whole damn team, too. Aside from Simmonds.

[brelic]

i feel for him some but really he needs to shut the **** up and start producing

 

Yeah!! If you can't score a hat trick in 5 periods, off you go!!!

 

 

He's suffering from the Dopita curse.

[mojo1917]

What about the MVP candidate on that line? What's his contribution to that?

 

 

 

 

And, for that matter, vice versa...

 

 

 

 

True. And that's true for the whole damn team, too. Aside from Simmonds.

I've been critical of Giroux is suck ®phlfly a plenty so far this year. He's been awful so has Jake Hands of Stone Voracek.

 

I've defended Schenn plenty too, he's got 200 games , he has had somethings he can build on... but i don't see growth , i don't see him just missing making a play... i don't see him being any sort of positive factor.  there are times with young players where you can see them starting to "get it" they may not execute all the time but the idea is there, I don't see Brayden "getting it" , I do see Couturier growing, I don't see it with Schenn.  sorry. 

I know he's had some outsized expectations with his draft position and who he was traded for, he is an NHL player, he's not showing me he's a special NHL player and I think that's what is/was expected of him.

[mojo1917]

Yeah!! If you can't score a hat trick in 5 periods, off you go!!!

 

 

He's suffering from the Dopita curse.

I get your humor.

 

but seriously if he were contributing anything , I would be more likely to abide letting the experiment continue.  I haven't seen anything from him that leads me to believe he is improving and will be a fit on that line, he hasn't found the space to shoot, he hasn't won a battle , he hasn't kept possession of the puck, he hasn't made a decent pass, though , really who would be able to take a pass,  he hasn't done thing one on that line that would lead anyone to think he should be playing there. Does he have a hit yet ?  

the second he got off that line he started playing better.  he's a borderline 2nd line center, maybe,  let him fill that role.  @aziz was saying in another thread about letting kids play versus making them earn their spot.  Let Brayden earn his spot, he hasn't performed well when things have been "given" to him.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

At this point, it's almost better for Schenn to be moved than continue in this mess known as the Flyers. They bungled up his development badly. When they acquired Schenn, that should have been the time that they started the conversion from center to left wing. They should have left him in Adirondack to learn how to play on the left side. Instead, they called him up and used him at center. The lockout was another opportunity to get Schenn aquainted with the left wing, but once again, they left him at center. Now that Hartnell is gone, Berube pulls the plug after 5 periods, but he's going to continue using Schenn on the wing. I feel bad for Schenn because he seems like a legitimate team guy and is willing to do whatever the team is asking him to do, but in this instance, he really needed to learn the nuances of playing wing and instead, they've thrown him to the wolves. Personally, I'd love to see a move in which Schenn is traded for someone like Zack Kassian, who's on the cusp of breaking through. Put Zack on Giroux's line and let him run the opposition into the ground. If Schenn can't land Kassian, maybe Nail Yakupov or David Perron might be of interest.......

[B21]

@radoran

 

Is there even a Good Schenn™ anymore?

[radoran]

I've been critical of Giroux is suck ®phlfly a plenty so far this year. He's been awful so has Jake Hands of Stone Voracek.

 

I've defended Schenn plenty too, he's got 200 games , he has had somethings he can build on... but i don't see growth , i don't see him just missing making a play... i don't see him being any sort of positive factor.  there are times with young players where you can see them starting to "get it" they may not execute all the time but the idea is there, I don't see Brayden "getting it" , I do see Couturier growing, I don't see it with Schenn.  sorry. 

I know he's had some outsized expectations with his draft position and who he was traded for, he is an NHL player, he's not showing me he's a special NHL player and I think that's what is/was expected of him.

 

There is no "sorry" - I said in the first post "deal the Schenns now"

 

I'm not here to advocate for Brayden Schenn - far from it. But I've seen far too many times where a player is given a game or a game and a half to "gel" with his linemates and then tossed aside.

 

And you have, too.

 

SIdney Crosby makes Pascal Dupuis into a legitimate scoring threat.

 

Who does Giroux make better?

 

Schenn did put up 20/41 as a 22 year old. I think that is something that can be built on.

 

VLC, the 34-year-old who they have given his apparent slot to, put up 20/37 last year - the latest in a continued string of lower scoring, down seasons.

 

Why is it so important for the team to keep VLC in that role, hoping for a turnaround in his fortunes, but not to play a 23-year-old who - at least in theory - should be growing and developing into something?

 

That's a question for the coach. And the coach is the one making the lines and assigning the forward positions - and the guy who feels it's important to keep VLC's spot open, lest Schenn actually show that he's a competent second line center.

 

Which he may never do - but certainly hasn't gotten a "legitimate" shot at over any length of time.

[mojo1917]

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

i really like the voice of calm and reason you bring to the forum.

At what point though does one put the responsibility on the player to learn a new position.  Call me crazy but I think we all see the writing on the wall regarding his chances of playing center for the Flyers and we're not even on the team.  At what point does he seek some extra work after practice, spend some time watching film,  get an idea of how his game can translate to the new responsibility ?  If it were me in his skates and i'm hearing that i may get time with Giroux and Jake and first line minutes, i'm preparing my ass off , hanging out in Kladno or Hearst getting into a rhythm with my new linemates.

 

 

I do admire his willingness to play wherever and do whatever right up to the point where he becomes ineffective.   If he's to play wing,  play wing.  And in the couple of seasons where has been on the wing ,he hasn't ,he's been a dilatant rather than seeking to become an expert.

 

I also the know second we trade him he's going to tear it up go on to lead his new team to multiple cups... because that's how we roll 'round here.

[radoran]

At what point does he seek some extra work after practice, spend some time watching film, get an idea of how his game can translate to the new responsibility ? If it were me in his skates and i'm hearing that i may get time with Giroux and Jake and first line minutes, i'm preparing my ass off , hanging out in Kladno or Hearst getting into a rhythm with my new linemates.

 

How do you know he hasn't done all that? I don't.

 

How do you know he didn't do all that (aside from skating in Kladno or Hearst) and then five periods into his "chance" he's pulled?

 

I do admire his willingness to play wherever and do whatever right up to the point where he becomes ineffective. If he's to play wing, play wing. And in the couple of seasons where has been on the wing ,he hasn't ,he's been a dilatant rather than seeking to become an expert.

 

He did put up a 20-goal season last year. There was another guy who put up a 20-goal season at about the same age and was "disappointing" and "not trying" and "floating".

 

They dealt him for Schenn's brother.

 

He scored 30 last season.

[brelic]

@radoran

 

Is there even a Good Schenn™ anymore?

 

Nope.

[brelic]

I get your humor.
 
but seriously if he were contributing anything , I would be more likely to abide letting the experiment continue.  I haven't seen anything from him that leads me to believe he is improving and will be a fit on that line, he hasn't found the space to shoot, he hasn't won a battle , he hasn't kept possession of the puck, he hasn't made a decent pass, though , really who would be able to take a pass,  he hasn't done thing one on that line that would lead anyone to think he should be playing there. Does he have a hit yet ?  
the second he got off that line he started playing better.  he's a borderline 2nd line center, maybe,  let him fill that role.  @aziz was saying in another thread about letting kids play versus making them earn their spot.  Let Brayden earn his spot, he hasn't performed well when things have been "given" to him.

 

I made a bad joke, but I do agree with you. Schenn is a very vanilla player. He scored 20 goals, so there's that. And as I said in another post, I would prefer they keep him, but move him to the 3rd line even, because that's where he belongs right now.

 

If they trade him, make sure you include his brother. 

[peter puck]

VLC

[mojo1917]

How do you know he hasn't done all that? I don't.
 
How do you know he didn't do all that (aside from skating in Kladno or Hearst) and then five periods into his "chance" he's pulled?

 

does it look like it ? 

 

I don't know he didn't but i'd be willing to bet some of my daughter's college fund that i'm right.

[radoran]

does it look like it ? 

 

I don't know he didn't but i'd be willing to bet some of my daughter's college fund that i'm right.

 

Well, I'd bet some of your daughter's college fund that neither Giroux nor Voracek were making themselves available for extra skating in the off-season.

 

I'll also venture some of it that neither of them have been hitting the video room or looking to work out with their "new" linemate extensively, either.

 

There are three guys on the line. None of them look like they've been doing any of it.

 

And it took less than two games to break them up.

[mojo1917]

@radoran

 

Well, I'd bet some of your daughter's college fund that neither Giroux nor Voracek were available for extra skating in the off-season.

 

LOL

 

oh i wanted to say this too... somewhere you asked who Giroux made better,  I know a guy, he's playing in Columbus Ohio, this guy can barely skate and had a bad haircut for a long time and somehow he scored 37 goals playing with Giroux

[radoran]

@radoran

 

 

 

 

LOL

 

oh i wanted to say this too... somewhere you asked who Giroux made better,  I know a guy, he's playing in Columbus Ohio, this guy can barely skate and had a bad haircut for a long time and somehow he scored 37 goals playing with Giroux

 

You mean that year that Giroux had Jaromir Jagr on his other wing?

 

Oh, right.

 

And then Hartnell dropped to 8 in 32 and 20 in 78?

 

And, in fact, Giroux hasn't hit his 93 points from that season again?

 

Just maybe that wasn't "Giroux" doing the "making better"?

 

Spitballing here...

 

Dropping Jagr was still one of the worst of many bad decisions Homer made.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Can really tell which side of the fence you are actually on here, regarding schenn. but, I'll bite.... cause I'm bored on lunch break. 

 

Now, simply going on the eye test, Schenn has been terrible this year. Sure, a lot of other guys have been terrible too, but Schenn has stuck out. His ice time has steadily declined, (17m, 15m and 12m respectively). However, he's got an assist and +/- 0 for his last game... so there's that. Let's just keep him at fewer minutes because other players (Bellemare to name one) are making more of their ice time than Schenn has. 

 

My patience has been wearing thin on Schenn's for some time now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but he is simply NOT progressing as a player. If anything, he's regressing and I think that's the troubling sign and reason Berube is quick to pull his minutes. If he's gonna be a top 2 player, he's simply got to bring more than he's bringing. 

 

Maybe Berube is trying something to motivate him... I'm all for it. I'm not advocating a trade just yet. Now, if we're talking about the other Schenn... get rid of him asap. 

[radoran]

Can really tell which side of the fence you are actually on here, regarding schenn. but, I'll bite.... cause I'm bored on lunch break. 

 

Now, simply going on the eye test, Schenn has been terrible this year. Sure, a lot of other guys have been terrible too, but Schenn has stuck out. His ice time has steadily declined, (17m, 15m and 12m respectively). However, he's got an assist and +/- 0 for his last game... so there's that. Let's just keep him at fewer minutes because other players (Bellemare to name one) are making more of their ice time than Schenn has. 

 

My patience has been wearing thin on Schenn's for some time now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but he is simply NOT progressing as a player. If anything, he's regressing and I think that's the troubling sign and reason Berube is quick to pull his minutes. If he's gonna be a top 2 player, he's simply got to bring more than he's bringing. 

 

Maybe Berube is trying something to motivate him... I'm all for it. I'm not advocating a trade just yet. Now, if we're talking about the other Schenn... get rid of him asap. 

 

Love it. All of it. Good stuff.

 

I'm not terribly impressed with Schenn, but I don't think they've ever used him right. Boy projected as a Top 6 center and they've pretty much never used him in that capacity.

 

When I said trade them in the first post, I meant it. If they're not going to get out of them what they need, there's no point in continuing to tilt at the windmill. Both players have value and should be able to get some sort of return for the organization that will help. Like a scoring winger, for example.

 

But, to say that a player has looked awful on a team that has looked awful for three games is a little much for me, though. Again, he wasn't really given a shot to play with G and V - they hardly, if at all, played in the preseason and then were together for less than five periods.

 

For me, the whole question comes back to VLC and his impact on the lineup. If he's going to be taking the second line center job - and there isn't a whole lot of other places he fits - for the next 2-3 years, there is no place for Schenn to evolve as a player.

 

I'd rather go with the "upside" of a 22-year old scoring 21/40 than the "status quo" of a declining 34-year-old player posting 20/37, but it doesn't appear that the Flyers are going in that direction.

[mojo1917]

I'd rather go with the "upside" of a 22-year old scoring 21/40 than the "status quo" of a declining 34-year-old player posting 20/37, but it doesn't appear that the Flyers are going in that direction.

 

I don't think there is a regular poster here that feels differently.

Totally agree about Jagr ....and add Matt Carle to that sentiment  too.

Matt Carle at whatever number he's making..5.25 by 5 is better IMO than Andrew MacDonald's deal, I like Carle's game better too.

[brelic]

For me, the whole question comes back to VLC and his impact on the lineup. If he's going to be taking the second line center job - and there isn't a whole lot of other places he fits - for the next 2-3 years, there is no place for Schenn to evolve as a player.

 

And we've come full circle to the heart of it - the organization compromised (maybe that's not the best word... sidetracked? railroaded? disrupted?) its own player's development by bringing in someone from the outside who was absolutely unnecessary to this team.

[radoran]

Matt Carle at whatever number he's making..5.25 by 5 is better IMO than Andrew MacDonald's deal, I like Carle's game better too.

 

He's at $5.5 on the cap, but I totally agree.

 

You can't keep shuffling guys in and out and expect them to "gel" as a "team" overnight. Or on a trip to Cape Cod. Or Banff.

 

And we've come full circle to the heart of it - the organization compromised (maybe that's not the best word... sidetracked? railroaded? disrupted?) its own player's development by bringing in someone from the outside who was absolutely unnecessary to this team.

 

Which is totally relevant to the discussions we've been having on the defensive side as well.