yave1964 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Daniel Alfredsson, 42 and with a creeky back, has been trying to get his body to perform as if he were ten years younger but has apparently given up and decided to hang up his skates and call it a career. Alfie, one of the class acts in Hockey played all but one season of his career. He won the Calder trophy as the leagues top rookie in 1995-96 the only piece of hardware he ever took home. He broke 100 points once in 2005-06 with 103 and was named to the second team all star team. He made a living out of a ton of 70-80 point seasons. So he retires with 1157 points in 1246 games including 444 career goals. He is arguably the most booed rival in Toronto (for the Tucker hit, for the mocking of Sundin for his stick throwing incident and more) and outside of Toronto he is known as a class act. So is he a Hall of famer? if you ask a Senators fan the answer is of course, no doubt, first ballot get his plaque ready. Ask anyone else, you will get an objective myriad of answers. It is a difficult case, to me he is right on the bubble but I would likely have to give him the nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 @yave1964 It will be a sad day when he retires. I don't consider him great, but a solid very good.....not quite enough to get him into the Hall. If he would have won the cup once that might be the edge he needed to squeak in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't know. While I was reading the post by @yave1964 and started to realize where he was going, my knee jerk was a very strong "No!" His season numbers are unspectacular. But the length of his career, the fact his numbers were solid, his leadership, and especially the fact he was pretty much the one and only face of the franchise for nearly two decades (nearly the entire existence for that franchise)... Yeah, he's hard to argue against. We've had hall of fame discussions before so maybe you remember that I don't believe Nealy (who I liked) should be in there. But if he is in, absolutely Alfredsson should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 @jammer2\If Glenn Anderson or Steve Shutt deserves to be in there, Alfie does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 @flyercanuck I don't know how it falls stats wise, but I consider both Shutt and Anderson better than Alfie. Shutt was one of the elite left wingers of his era, has tons of cups on the mantel....he played a big role in those cup wins. I always thought Anderson was kinda lost in the shuffle during the Oilers dynasty years, but he was one of leagues best skaters and had hands that matched. Not knocking Alfie, he was a great leader....I just think he only had one spectacular season stats wise and never won anything besides the Calder. He needed one more trophy, a cup win, something to separate him from the crowd. At least that's the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 @jammer2 Swap Alfie and Shutt, or Anderson. The Habs/Oilers still win as many cups, while Steve or Glenns cup cupboard goes virtually bare. i'd bet on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 @jammer2 Swap Alfie and Shutt, or Anderson. The Habs/Oilers still win as many cups, while Steve or Glenns cup cupboard goes virtually bare. i'd bet on that.Alfie to me is a hard case. His numbers, 70 points a year, no cups, no hardware, don't scream HOFer. Being part of a team that for a decade was known for their postseason collapses doesn't help either. Quite frankly, the Senators team of a decade ago absolutely should have won a cup or two or three, they didn't get knocked out by the big boys in the West, they fell to the Leafs over and over and over before even getting there. And Alfie, as a key cog has to accept a certain amount of culpability for that. Anderson may be a perfect compare, IMHO they are similar types, both are damn good hockey players who might or might not be HOFers depending on the breaks. Anderson played with Gretzky and Messier and Fuhr and Coffey and the rest and wound up with a handful of rings, if he had been with, say the Blues of that era would he be a HOFer? Probably not. But everything counts, and cup wins surely need to be factored in. Alfie played with some damn good players as well, Hossa, Chara, Spezza and they didn't win. That has to be factored in. Chara and Hossa both won cups later when they moved on. Spezza still might. The fact that Chara and Hossa have won cups will count in their favor when it comes time to decide if they get to make a speech in Toronto some day. If alfredsson played in his prime with the Wings he certainly would have won multiple cups. I think Alfie gets in, but he is not a shoe-in. He does not have the peripherals, hardware, cups, first team all star appearances, ect... but he was a class act who played a long time and symbolized the Senators franchise and gave them credibility after several years of wretched play as an expansion team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 @yave1964 Kind of my point...I'm not so sure Anderson or Shutt deserve to be there among a few others. If they do, then Alfie does IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 @yave1964 Kind of my point...I'm not so sure Anderson or Shutt deserve to be there among a few others. If they do, then Alfie does IMO.I think my post was a long winded way of me saying that i concur, lol at least in regard to Anderson. Shutt, IMHO was an elite lewt winger and deserves to be in based on his talent, the fact that he played on the last Habs dynasty certainly did not hurt but I think Shutt is in no matter what the team he played for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Alfredsson was such such a great leader for the Sens, the team hasn't recovered since. As a Flyer fan I didn't like him much, as he made the Senators so much tougher to play against. When you look where Alfie fits in this chart he is a definite Hall of Famer imo. But not until Lindros gets in first as he was every bit the same mold as a team leader if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Alfredsson was such such a great leader for the Sens, the team hasn't recovered since. As a Flyer fan I didn't like him much, as he made the Senators so much tougher to play against. When you look where Alfie fits in this chart he is a definite Hall of Famer imo. But not until Lindros gets in first as he was every bit the same mold as a team leader if not better. eric lindros.jpgLindros, IMHO has his own unique set of issues that preclude any serious discussion of him as a HOFer. In fact, Alfredsson may be the anti-Lindros. You never heard a bad word about him, save for the Darcy Tucker hit and the mocking of Sundin. He was a class act, a great teammate and loved by the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @flyercanuck Well, without Steve Shutt....there is no Rush....so there is that....re:early years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shutt Actually, when you look at the career stats of Steve, he only had the one big year, much like Alfie. The one year was monstrous scoring 60 goals as a LW, a feat only surpassed by OV and Lucky Luc. Does not average a pt per game over career....just the one big year, a few 80's and not much after that. I retract after further review, if Steve is in there, then Alfie should be also. You were right. The cups must have helped him out big time, cause those are not HOF stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @jammer2 Only saw Rush once...in Bala...walked out. In other words, not influencing my vote. I'm not saying he doesn't belong...just saying Alfreddson is pretty much equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @flyercanuck See edit....just out of morbid curiosity, why did you walk out on Rush, did they put on a bad show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @jammer2 It was back in their first album days...they were terrible. There was a lineup to get out, and I'm not joking. Times have changed...I appreciate the talent they have. But they aren't my cup of tea, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @flyercanuck Fair enough, I thought they were amazing when I saw them, but seeing them post and pre Moving Pictures is a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @jammer2 I think they're great musicians. I have a hard time with Geddys vocals though...rototiller up my spine. (yet I like Tom Waits, Johnny Lydon, Ian Hunter etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @flyercanuck Yes, Geddy is certainly an acquired taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I'm the Senators fan that will of course say yes to Alfie going into the HoF. Lol. Yes, many of the Sens teams over the years underperformed, but I don't really think that was on Alfie. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread, the team isn't really the same without him. I think last year might have been a much different story with him in the lineup. Ironically, while the Sens weren't going to win the Cup last year regardless, they might have gotten closer than Detroit did if he had been in the lineup. As for Leafs fans hating him, are you really that good of a team captain if the fan base of your biggest rival doesn't hate you? Lol Obviously, all good things must come to an end, and while I hate to see him go, I realize that it is time. I, for one, salute him and thank him for everything he did for the Sens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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