J0e Th0rnton Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 @yave1964 It really depends if the Leafs are out of things at the deadline. I think they will run with the co-op coach between Spott and Horachek for a bit and see how the team responds before making any real player movements. If they continue to burn, I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall out of the playoff bubble and look to sell at the deadline. If that happens, Franson to Detroit for a high pick or a good prospect could be a very real possibility. @jammer2 I actually don't think moving Phaneuf would take the miracle some think it would, mostly because of a general desire for defense around the league. Phaneuf's monster contract obviously complicates things, but the guy is a pretty damn good defenseman despite the hate and is having a fantastic season for the most part. Is he a true #1? No. Is he top pairing? For sure, I'd say. Of course I could be completely wrong and a delusional Leaf fan (it's bound to happen), but a few rumour guys have mentioned league wide interest in him (Dreger and Kypreos I think? Not that I put much stock in either). The Leafs would no doubt need to take salary back, because such is the way of the new NHL. Anaheim has been vaguely mentioned in trade rumours, and I think he'd be a great fit there. Plus, we probably wouldn't need to take too much salary back, assuming they have the budget for Dion. Of course moving Dion probably moves this team into full re-rebuild mode, albeit with a much better foundation than the last time they tried this. The immediate defense without Phaneuf is atrocious, and without both Phaneuf and Franson it's eye-bleed inducing on paper.I dunno about that.Anaheim has 5 million in cap space tis season true, but they have 2 Dmen on entry level contracts who will be up for a big raise in 2016 in Lindholm and Vatenen, and a goalie who is playing wonderful in Andersen who will also be due for a raise. MAYBE, but I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton I could've sworn they had more than that. ....dang I miss capgeek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 @Commander CluelessNhlnumbers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 @Commander CluelessNhlnumbers.com It's just not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The Leafs are looking to trade anything and everything...and we're 6 points below them in the standings. They are, technically speaking, a winning team as of this point in time and they want to tear it down. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The Leafs are looking to trade anything and everything...and we're 6 points below them in the standings. They are, technically speaking, a winning team as of this point in time and they want to tear it down. :lol: I think fan apathy has set in in Toronto. The fans don't give a crap about this team anymore. We all know it's not good enough and we all know nothing is going to be done to change it. The Leafs are a #7 - #12 Eastern Conference team. That's what they are today. That's what they've been for the last DECADE. They are consistently in that bottom group of teams that challenge for one of the "fodder" spots in the first round of the playoffs, and typically fall short. I see no signs of improvement with this team. This is the ceiling on this group of players. The Leafs need a #1 defenceman AND a #1 center before we can even talk seriously about this team in a playoff context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I think fan apathy has set in in Toronto. The fans don't give a crap about this team anymore. We all know it's not good enough and we all know nothing is going to be done to change it. The Leafs are a #7 - #12 Eastern Conference team. That's what they are today. That's what they've been for the last DECADE. They are consistently in that bottom group of teams that challenge for one of the "fodder" spots in the first round of the playoffs, and typically fall short. I see no signs of improvement with this team. This is the ceiling on this group of players. The Leafs need a #1 defenceman AND a #1 center before we can even talk seriously about this team in a playoff context. They are within reach of that last playoff spot and they're talking about trading away everything? That my friend is shortsighted. Make no mistake, historically speaking they're not a great team (and before some dork fires back at me and lectures me about 13 cups, just stop right there). But halfway through a season in which you're within 5 points of a PO spot is not when you talk about having a fire sale. Stuff like that is probably (part of) why you haven't won a cup since the 60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 They are within reach of that last playoff spot and they're talking about trading away everything? That my friend is shortsighted. Make no mistake, historically speaking they're not a great team (and before some dork fires back at me and lectures me about 13 cups, just stop right there). But halfway through a season in which you're within 5 points of a PO spot is not when you talk about having a fire sale. Stuff like that is probably (part of) why you haven't won a cup since the 60s. The trouble is, this core group of players has had several opportunities to get it done and failed. At some point, they need to aim higher than 7th place in the conference. The group of players the Leafs currently have aren't good enough to do anything more than squeak into a bottom playoff spot and get killed in the first round. If the goal is the win the Cup, then changes need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The trouble is, this core group of players has had several opportunities to get it done and failed. At some point, they need to aim higher than 7th place in the conference. The group of players the Leafs currently have aren't good enough to do anything more than squeak into a bottom playoff spot and get killed in the first round. If the goal is the win the Cup, then changes need to be made. Baby steps. I think you guys need to focus on simply making the PO on a regular basis (and winning around). A cup, let's not get out of hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilmonkey Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 this team would be lucky to win the memorial cup at this rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 @Evilmonkey Kelowna would kick their arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 this team would be lucky to win the memorial cup at this rate It looks like the bottom has fallen out again. This team is lost. MLSE can change coaches on an annual basis if they want to, but until they change the players this situation isn't going to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nORRis8 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Kessel...very tradeable. I can see him going to someone who has not made a big trade lately and thats the Sharks.Leafs need to trade out of conference.He was an a-hole with teammates when he was a Bruin. He is as well with the Leafs. Doesnt like to work out. Always whining. A media darling when the media wants to pick on someone. +Scores goals. - One dimentional player. - Overpaid. - Asshole. -.No leadership qualities. Phaneuf. This is not a good hockey player...period. Yet the Leafs are pissing away tons of money on him. If the Leafs put a scarecrow on the ice with a stick...he would be better. I see him going to .........who the hell knows???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Kessel...very tradeable. I can see him going to someone who has not made a big trade lately and thats the Sharks.Leafs need to trade out of conference.He was an a-hole with teammates when he was a Bruin. He is as well with the Leafs. Doesnt like to work out. Always whining. A media darling when the media wants to pick on someone. +Scores goals. - One dimentional player. - Overpaid. - Asshole. -.No leadership qualities. Phaneuf. This is not a good hockey player...period. Yet the Leafs are pissing away tons of money on him. If the Leafs put a scarecrow on the ice with a stick...he would be better. I see him going to .........who the hell knows????Won't happen. Wilson publically proclaimed he will not be trading any more 1st round draft picks or young prospects for veterans and that he considers the Sharks a tomorrow team. All the other big names on the team(Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Couture/Burns) have no movement clauses. Behind the scenes opinion is that Wilson wants to force them to waive, but they told him to go pound sand. Unless Wilson is fired, zero chance of this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom@Evilmonkey@Commander Clueless I have a strange thought. Leafs need a center. Badly. Bozak barely a 2nd line center on many NHL teams(Just horrid in is own end. that whole line is), and Kadri, while good, is not top line center material. The Avs are looking to move O'Reilly? Solid, 2nd line center and 6th for the Selke last season. Not the first line center you ideally want, but hey, he is 24, great defensively and better than Kadri or Bozo. The catch, he is only signed on that bridge contract till next season's end. 6.2 million I believe. he is also Ontario born. The Avs are looking for help on defense. While I strongly doubt you could rope them into taking Phaneuf's awful in regression contract off your hands, you have another defenseman about to be UFA in Franson and other pieces Colorado may be interested in(Robidas, Gardiner). Likely you need to take Wilson in return, but he is UFA after this season anyways. Granted, they signed Iginla and Stuart to awful deals, so maybe they would take Phaneuf if you retained 25%. Whoever took Stuart from the Sharks for a 2nd Rounder when i thought we would have to give them a 2nd rounder just to take him, and then resigned him before ever seeing him play obviously did not watch Sharks games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am at the point with Irwin and Hannan that I will take almost ANYBODY to replace them on defense.Now that does not mean I would take Phaneuf's albatross contract unless it only came at 4.5 million, but I would take long looks at Gardiner and Franson if I were Doug Wilson. Hell, Flyer fans want to dump Coburn fo nothing., but i'd take him over those two. I would not give up more than a 4th for him(Nobody would with how bad he has played this year), but he would be an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton Yeaahhh....if the Leafs retain THAT much of Phaneuf's contract, I'll be pissed. Phaneuf at $4.5 million is a steal. Then again, Nonis does love dead cap space. Sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Phaneuf at $4.5 million is a steal. Isn't his cap hit like $7M though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yes, but CC and J0e are talking about a trade where salary is retained to make taking on his contract more palatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @AJgoal Ok, thanks. It pays to read the whole thread I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton Yeaahhh....if the Leafs retain THAT much of Phaneuf's contract, I'll be pissed. Phaneuf at $4.5 million is a steal. Then again, Nonis does love dead cap space. Sold.Phaneuf has regressed pretty badly and has gotten older and slower. It will only be more pronounced as he gets older. Most guys start slowing down at 31+ and Phaneuf has already started. Convincing people he will be worth 7 million a year at age 33-34-35 given his rate of decline will be impossible. He isn't worth 7 million now. He isn't worth more than 5 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Phaneuf has regressed pretty badly and has gotten older and slower. It will only be more pronounced as he gets older. Most guys start slowing down at 31+ and Phaneuf has already started. Once you start slowing down, it seems impossible to get it back, no matter what kind of shape you are in or what you do. The other night I went to "hustle" back on a puck that got chipped by me in the neutral zone. I noticed that I was not moving, however. I actually had time to look down at my feet - my skates were moving a mile a minute, just skipping across the ice, but I wasn't even moving, at least it sure didn't feel like it. It was like a cartoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Phaneuf has regressed pretty badly and has gotten older and slower. It will only be more pronounced as he gets older. Most guys start slowing down at 31+ and Phaneuf has already started. Convincing people he will be worth 7 million a year at age 33-34-35 given his rate of decline will be impossible. He isn't worth 7 million now. He isn't worth more than 5 now. Actually he hasn't regressed really. Still on a 35-40ish point pace for this season despite the team struggles. Pretty solid defensively (certainly the best the Leafs have to offer by a long shot, not that that's saying a lot of course). Slower? I don't think so. Not significantly, anyway. He's never been an amazing skater, more like a fridge on skates. Decently fast in a straight line with limited lateral mobility, hard hitter. At 29 is in his prime, may hit a wall sooner rather than later. Hard to say for sure, but it's not an unreasonable prediction. I'm not saying $7 million isn't a huge deal and it will certainly lower his value significantly, but Phaneuf at $5 million is still well below market value IMO. At that retention price, I'd expect something pretty shiny in return at least. More likely to see very little (or none) retained with a decent prospect/young player and a cap dump coming back, in my opinion - assuming, of course, he's even moved. My prediction. Call me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Actually he hasn't regressed really. Still on a 35-40ish point pace for this season despite the team struggles. Pretty solid defensively (certainly the best the Leafs have to offer by a long shot, not that that's saying a lot of course). Slower? I don't think so. Not significantly, anyway. He's never been an amazing skater, more like a fridge on skates. Decently fast in a straight line with limited lateral mobility, hard hitter. At 29 is in his prime, may hit a wall sooner rather than later. Hard to say for sure, but it's not an unreasonable prediction. I'm not saying $7 million isn't a huge deal and it will certainly lower his value significantly, but Phaneuf at $5 million is still well below market value IMO. At that retention price, I'd expect something pretty shiny in return at least. More likely to see very little (or none) retained with a decent prospect/young player and a cap dump coming back, in my opinion - assuming, of course, he's even moved. My prediction. Call me crazy.Hey, I know you are a leaf fan and know more about him on a regular basis than I do, but I watch enough leaf games that I personally think he is slowing down. He certainly is not 23 anymore. He might be on pace for 35 points or so, but he is setting a new career low in goals(2 goals in 47 games) and historically, his second halves to seasons have been worse. This is a guy who potted 20 goals in his rookie year and a few years later went on to runner up for the Norris. He is nowhere near his prime. His average icetime this season is also 23 minutes. 25-26 minutes is only a 2-3 minute difference, but in hockey terms, it is a significant step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilmonkey Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 my biggest pet peeve about dion is how big of a puss he became, i was so excited when we originally got him because he was a beast he hit everything, now the only hitting he causes is the fans heads against the wall after another error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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