ruxpin Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: Depends on the league I guess. In NAHANA, since losses is a category, it may dampen his value a bit because its the leafs. But the idea of him playing 60 games increases his value compared to Niemi/Lehtonen since we can't count on one of them to steal the starter job. But I may still rank him below Allen/Elliott(same tandem situation) since they usually provide solid GAA/Sv% and will get decent wins/Losses because they are blues. Ill flip flop a lot. I am curious about a lot of things this offseason. I can't argue with any of that. This is probably not the thread for it, but how long do the Blues hang on to both Elliott and Allen? I'm not a big fan of either individually. Elliott, in particular, I think is a pretender. But I also think Allen really may need a change of scenery before he really takes off. I thought maybe he'd turned the corner there for a little bit, despite the Blues' bumbling of him previously. But then he got hurt and they seemed to screw with his head again when he came back. I feel like either fish or cut bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 minute ago, ruxpin said: I can't argue with any of that. This is probably not the thread for it, but how long do the Blues hang on to both Elliott and Allen? I'm not a big fan of either individually. Elliott, in particular, I think is a pretender. But I also think Allen really may need a change of scenery before he really takes off. I thought maybe he'd turned the corner there for a little bit, despite the Blues' bumbling of him previously. But then he got hurt and they seemed to screw with his head again when he came back. I feel like either fish or cut bait. Calgary needs a goaltender and is looking for the best deal to fit their team. They've inquired on this tandem, Bishop, Kuemper, etc.-- probably the Flyers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 2 hours ago, ruxpin said: I can't argue with any of that. This is probably not the thread for it, but how long do the Blues hang on to both Elliott and Allen? I'm not a big fan of either individually. Elliott, in particular, I think is a pretender. But I also think Allen really may need a change of scenery before he really takes off. I thought maybe he'd turned the corner there for a little bit, despite the Blues' bumbling of him previously. But then he got hurt and they seemed to screw with his head again when he came back. I feel like either fish or cut bait. About 2 hours, apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 6/23/2016 at 7:21 AM, jammer2 said: The Leafs paid a decent price, but I think this is more of the same coming from Shanny, good solid move with an eye towards the future. Of course, the reason they did not pull the trigger on this particular move or a similar type move last year was to assure themselves of a top two pick this coming draft....smart, real smart. Moves like this, and in particular the *timing* of it have been far and few between from former Leaf management groups. This is a clear sign that Shanny has said, we are done being stinky, it's time to compete...and maybe, just maybe having a solid goalie like Freddy (and I do believe he is a very capable #1 guy) along with their other young guns is enough to lure Stamkos back to Ontario....who knows, but if I'm Stammer, I feel more comfortable going to TO now than a few days ago...assuming TO is even on his short list. Of course, this move became necessary on the part of the Ducks when the expansion team was granted to Las Vegas...it assured them there would indeed be an expansion draft and the Ducks felt (like many teams will) that the price for protecting two goalies is just to high a price to pay roster wise. I do believe Bernier is done, the only question is when....Freddy has been hurt before. If this is really a signal by the Leafs saying "it's time to compete" it makes sense to keep Bernier in the picture....he would make a respectable back up...and a nice emergency option should Freddy get hurt. Can't see them going with Sparks and co if Freddy gets hurt. It makes sense to keep Bernier around, sell him off when the time is right...no rush. I'm not sure if Bernier is the type of guy that would want to be a full time backup. I think he has aspirations on being a starter, and doesn't want to share the net. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 4 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said: I'm not sure if Bernier is the type of guy that would want to be a full time backup. I think he has aspirations on being a starter, and doesn't want to share the net. We shall see. If Bernier wants a full time gig, the best way to get it is to force Leaf management to play him as frequently as possible. The Leafs will have increased scoring, defense could not get worse, these are factors in Berniers favour. As it stands now, Bernier has done nothing to convince any team, no matter how desperate that he is starter material. Plus, taking a back seat to Anderson will test his character. How he responds will define the rest of his career. The best thing he can do is control the things in his control, ie play his ass off when he does start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 5 hours ago, jammer2 said: If Bernier wants a full time gig, the best way to get it is to force Leaf management to play him as frequently as possible. The Leafs will have increased scoring, defense could not get worse, these are factors in Berniers favour. As it stands now, Bernier has done nothing to convince any team, no matter how desperate that he is starter material. Plus, taking a back seat to Anderson will test his character. How he responds will define the rest of his career. The best thing he can do is control the things in his control, ie play his ass off when he does start. I agree, but I think Bernier will have to play his ass off and win back a starter job elsewhere. I don't think Leafs management wants another goaltender controversy again. Bernier got an extended look in Toronto (more than Reimer ever got), and he failed. I think Leafs management has turned the page on him by acquiring Andersen. I'm surprised they haven't released Bernier yet. It's basically the kind of thing you do within 24 hours of acquiring the new guy. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 12 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said: I agree, but I think Bernier will have to play his ass off and win back a starter job elsewhere. I don't think Leafs management wants another goaltender controversy again. Bernier got an extended look in Toronto (more than Reimer ever got), and he failed. I think Leafs management has turned the page on him by acquiring Andersen. I'm surprised they haven't released Bernier yet. It's basically the kind of thing you do within 24 hours of acquiring the new guy. Hmm. You have forgotten about one thing....Anderson has a history of being injured. If you really want to turn the corner like Shanny has shown with this Anderson move....ie time to start winning....you must first guard against your new #1 goalie being injured. Do you really want Sparks coming in to save the day?? Bernier, as long as he does not make waves, serves a purpose on this team....plus, plenty of backs to backs to keep him happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 I don't see this as any kind of final move in goal. This is a cork in the dam, IMHO. As @jammer2 has pointed out, Andersen has a history of injury. An injury to him would leave us with Bernier as our starter - we've already seen how that works . This re-build is a process and it has just begun. (guess we need a new smilie) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 12 hours ago, jammer2 said: You have forgotten about one thing....Anderson has a history of being injured. If you really want to turn the corner like Shanny has shown with this Anderson move....ie time to start winning....you must first guard against your new #1 goalie being injured. Do you really want Sparks coming in to save the day?? Bernier, as long as he does not make waves, serves a purpose on this team....plus, plenty of backs to backs to keep him happy. We signed a goalie with an injury history? Arg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said: We signed a goalie with an injury history? Arg... An interesting read....https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/06/23/frederik-andersen-deeper-look-potentially-franchise-changing-trade/ Yeah, Andersen has been injured 7 times the past 2 years, although once was only the flu....but enough times to label him injury prone I would guess. Also, he has only started 114 total games, and has only surpassed 50 games once in his career...not a proven commodity by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, jammer2 said: An interesting read....https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/06/23/frederik-andersen-deeper-look-potentially-franchise-changing-trade/ Yeah, Andersen has been injured 7 times the past 2 years, although once was only the flu....but enough times to label him injury prone I would guess. Also, he has only started 114 total games, and has only surpassed 50 games once in his career...not a proven commodity by any means. Maybe not proven. but from what i have seen, I am sold on him. however, being sold on him and him performing well in Toronto are 2 different things. We shall see. I may take a flyer on him in fantasy, but only if other 50+ game options are exhausted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said: however, being sold on him and him performing well in Toronto are 2 different things. Exactly, the Leafs defense is a lot more porous than the Ducks. The forwards don't backcheck nearly as well either. I can see Freddie's GGA and SV% taking a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 9 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: Maybe not proven. but from what i have seen, I am sold on him. however, being sold on him and him performing well in Toronto are 2 different things. We shall see. I may take a flyer on him in fantasy, but only if other 50+ game options are exhausted Factoid: The last goaltender to perform well in Toronto was..... Ed Belfour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 8 hours ago, jammer2 said: Exactly, the Leafs defense is a lot more porous than the Ducks. The forwards don't backcheck nearly as well either. I can see Freddie's GGA and SV% taking a hit. Definitely. We'll see how he handles it. Seeing the puck early and often in every game. Seeing a lot of odd-man rushes. Seeing people with microphones after the game that ask him questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 2 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said: Definitely. We'll see how he handles it. Seeing the puck early and often in every game. Seeing a lot of odd-man rushes. Seeing people with microphones after the game that ask him questions... Having said all that, I do agree with Joe's assertion, Freddie is a quality goalie, he passed the eye test anyways. However, as you said, the pressure and bright lights of the hockey capital of the world does strange things to players. We shall see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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