J0e Th0rnton Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Wut? I like Zibanejad and felt he was trending up at age 22. but Brassard is a better player right now Who wins this one? Feel like Stepan becomes #1 C on the rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said: Wut? I like Zibanejad and felt he was trending up at age 22. but Brassard is a better player right now Who wins this one? Feel like Stepan becomes #1 C on the rangers. Truthfully a lateral move for both, similar players in a lot of ways. Brassard was an absolute pain in the Ass in the clubhouse in Columbus crying about ice time and alienating teammates and management, everything seemed rosy in New York but this last year a little of that started creeping out again. Zibinajed had his own childish issues two years ago with management. I get the feeling this is two malcontents that the teams are hoping with get their acts together with a change of scenery. Zibinejad has the advantage of being able to play wing thus more versatile and younger, Brassard only plays one position but plays it well. I give the edge based off age and versatility to the Rangers, a clear edge IMHO. Not sure what the Senators were thinking, unless it was, 'Hey, we havent done anything all summer, we better make a move to let our fans know we are trying.' Bad decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch... OUCH! I want to officially start the "Fire Dorion" campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 29 minutes ago, yave1964 said: Truthfully a lateral move for both, similar players in a lot of ways. Brassard was an absolute pain in the Ass in the clubhouse in Columbus crying about ice time and alienating teammates and management, everything seemed rosy in New York but this last year a little of that started creeping out again. Zibinajed had his own childish issues two years ago with management. I get the feeling this is two malcontents that the teams are hoping with get their acts together with a change of scenery. Zibinejad has the advantage of being able to play wing thus more versatile and younger, Brassard only plays one position but plays it well. I give the edge based off age and versatility to the Rangers, a clear edge IMHO. Not sure what the Senators were thinking, unless it was, 'Hey, we havent done anything all summer, we better make a move to let our fans know we are trying.' Bad decision. Another note......, during Turris' hidden injury time, the Stone/Turris line was suffering badly. Weeks of no scoring. Enter Pageau. Pageau only had 43 points this season, but it did not escape my notice that 10 goals and 20 assists came in the last 40 games he played with very little PP time. And he played a tremendous two way game, scoring 5 SHP during that 40 game stretch. Him and Stone(And Zach Smith) were clicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDanglez67 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 A fairly even trade similar players but brassard is better right now and I feel is a #1C on the sens. While Zibanejad is a #2C on the Rangers for now anyways. However the Rangers get younger and pick up a 2nd which will help them start the rebuild process that most feel is coming very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I like this deal for the Sens. Just never thought Zibanejad was all that good. Barely scraping the 20 goal mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: I like this deal for the Sens. Just never thought Zibanejad was all that good. Barely scraping the 20 goal mark. Brassard, at 28, has scored 20+ goals... once. ZIbanejad has done it for two years in a row at 23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: I like this deal for the Sens. Just never thought Zibanejad was all that good. Barely scraping the 20 goal mark. Zibanejad was 22 last year, six years younger than Brassard. He is faster and plays in all situations, he was third among forwards in Ottawa in P/K time and first by a long shot in lowest pct. of goals scored while on the ice. His two way play beats Brassard by a mile, and although I give Brassard for righting the ship once he reached New York he was a malcontent and a pain in the ass in Columbus to deal with, refusing to buy into the team game and wanting to place himself above it. This is documented and well known, Brassard himself has even commented about his youthful mistakes as I have seen him refer to them as several times. Brassard, playing on a top line with Nash and the rest still is a 55-60 point a year guy. He has scored over 20 goals once ever. He is streaky and goes long stretches without doing much. He feasts off the power play but his 5 on 5 scoring is not good. Zibanejad had a situation a few years ago with partying too much as a 20 year old, the Sens rightfully shipped him out and let him get a bit of 'shock therapy' by learning reprecussions at the AHL level. He has scored 20 plus two years running and has saw his points per year go from 20 to 33 to 46 to 51 taking a high amount of defensive zone faceoffs. Brassard has always been a poor faceoff guy, his career pct. is .477, Zibenajad like many young players started slowly in that regard but has watched his pct of .464 three years ago continue to climb, up to .505 last season. And Mika can play all three forward positions whereas Brassard only plays center. Throw in the second rounder and look at the cap relief it gets the Rags and it is, IMHO highway robbery. Please do not take it wrong, I have always liked Brassard, living in central Ohio and knowing both of the Jacket fans intimately (my wife and daughter, lol) I commiserate with them as we discuss what a line of Voracek, Brassard and Nash along with the crop of kids they have would look like. Brassard could play for me any time but I feel the Sens a) are not going anywhere this year anyway and b) gave up on a young kid to fill a hole that did not need filled. They just recently signed Kelly as a 3/4C and have Pageau and Turris and had Zibenajad, why add Brassard other than it makes it look like the team is trying? Their number one need is defense, Senator fan @ScottM has stated quite accuately that on any given night they are throwing 3 AHL defenseman out there, playing out of their depth and out of their league. If you were going to trade a 22 year old kid who plays in all situations and whose numbers continue to go up year after year, why not fill the glaring need on the back end instead of adding another center who you clearly do not need? The deal makes zero sense to me. Win Rangers and not even close. And I hate the Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 16 minutes ago, radoran said: Brassard, at 28, has scored 20+ goals... once. ZIbanejad has done it for two years in a row at 23. And again great minds think alike, that is what I was writing (a bit wordier) as you posted this. Throw in the six year age difference, the two way play, the speed, the second rounder, Rangers in a knockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 30 minutes ago, radoran said: Brassard, at 28, has scored 20+ goals... once. ZIbanejad has done it for two years in a row at 23. Yeah and he is about to command more than what Brassard is locked in at. So they will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sens Coach options for rolling 3 lines: Hoffman/Brassard/???? Smith/Pageau/Stone(Exceptional line that flew under the radar) ????/Turris/Ryan That's 3 solid scoring lines. Alternatively, with 2 Solid scoring lines, just throw Bobby Ryan to line 1, and Turris to line 2. But I would not sleep on Pageau. He impressed the hell out of me last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 There are several problems that I have with this trade, most of which have been dealt with already. There's the age difference, there's the pay difference, there's the gap in flexibility, and there's definitely the draft pick gap. Is Zibanejad perfect? No way. But the positives for him are way bigger than those for Brassard from my perspective. And when I say that, I'm not dumping on Brassard, whom I believe to be a very solid player. In the long term, who would you rather have? I think that's an obvious answer. In the long term, which draft pick is more likely to work out? That's another obvious answer. I don't consider this trade to be Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson bad, but it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 18 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: Another note......, during Turris' hidden injury time, the Stone/Turris line was suffering badly. Weeks of no scoring. Enter Pageau. Pageau only had 43 points this season, but it did not escape my notice that 10 goals and 20 assists came in the last 40 games he played with very little PP time. And he played a tremendous two way game, scoring 5 SHP during that 40 game stretch. Him and Stone(And Zach Smith) were clicking. I'm going an asterisk next "only 43 points." I was ecstatic with Pageau's season. In the 2014-15 season he had 19 points in 50 games and had six in 37 total games before that. Last season, he played all 82 games, and saw an increase in his offensive production of 0.14 points. Add to that the fact that he's only 23, and I'll be shocked if he doesn't prove to at the very least be a long term top six guy. If anybody on the Sens roster other than Karlsson can be given full marks for 2015-16 (and almost no one could, since virtually everyone had noticeable dry spells), it's Pageau. I believe we've found a diamond in the rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 On 7/18/2016 at 4:43 PM, J0e Th0rnton said: Another note......, during Turris' hidden injury time, the Stone/Turris line was suffering badly. Weeks of no scoring. Enter Pageau. Pageau only had 43 points this season, but it did not escape my notice that 10 goals and 20 assists came in the last 40 games he played with very little PP time. And he played a tremendous two way game, scoring 5 SHP during that 40 game stretch. Him and Stone(And Zach Smith) were clicking. ha...I've been saying this for a while, Pageau has shown me flashes of being a very valuable player. I thought he was not being used correctly a lot last year. This guy just has that natural tendency to know where to be and the speed to get there. I see a 60 point guy in the right circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The Sens may win this deal short term, based on next years stats, but long term, the Rags got the superior player....a real good chance Zibs takes over the Rags #1 center slot late next year AND will not hurt them defensively. That's not even counting the 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 7 hours ago, jammer2 said: The Sens may win this deal short term, based on next years stats Here's the problem I have with this deal even if it that proves true and I'm willing to ignore the long term: I fail to see how it helps us. We filled a hole we didn't have and did virtually nothing to fill the ones we have. Since I don't see us as a contender with the (lack of) moves made, the short term hardly matters. I can't express how frustrating this offseason has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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