Ghost is a problem

[King Knut]

On 2/4/2017 at 9:28 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Well i would like to see one of these guys come up and have success first before giving up on Ghost.

 

Sure we can list Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Willcox, Myers and even Friedman but myself till any of them come up and actually prove they can play in the NHL...and by that i mean more than 1 year how can we count them technically...

 

..i mean look at the year Ghost had his 1st year and now he struggles and he is tossed in the trade ring now...

 

...so when Sanheim comes up and lits the NHL on fire then struggles with some adversity are we to know going to throw him out for someone else???

 

Just asking is all.

 

There's an article on CSN this morning that brings up an issue that non one here has talked about all year and I think is worth discussing.

 

Ghost and G both had hip surgery in the off season.  They were both playing in the Worlds (thanks to the idiotic deal the NHL made with the players association) 4 months later. 

 

Medically cleared as "safe to play", but many other players who have had the surgery talk about how to takes almost a full year to recover full range of motion and strength after this surgery.

 

I for one fully admit that neither Ghost nor G look comfortable in their skins this year.

 

Now this is when some clever poster will return to the old Philly Boy argument of:

 

"You don't need your hips or full range of motion to work hard."  

 

To which I say, "don't you? really?  and what breed of cyborg and or alien are you that doesn't need his hips at full strength to skate and shoot well?"  

 

Conclusion:  That tournament in September was DUMB DUMB DUMB.  Of course an extra few weeks isn't going to make the difference for a rehab that takes a full year and hopefully they both start to ease back into themselves soon, but almost as an annoying aside... that tournament was just a pain in the arse... or hip... or whatever.   Go took a bad hit and got hurt in the thing too.  Stupid and then there's Sequin (which doesn't hurt us, but you get the picture). 

[murraycraven]

Interesting tweet from Issac (FWIW):

 

 

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac 1m1 minute ago
Shayne Gostisbehere still out. I think his sitting is starting to grow old with some of the other players.
- PhillySportsGuy

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 minute ago, murraycraven said:

Interesting tweet from Issac (FWIW):

 

 

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac 1m1 minute ago
Shayne Gostisbehere still out. I think his sitting is starting to grow old with some of the other players.
- PhillySportsGuy

 

And the locker room revolt has begun...things are going to get interesting now. 

[murraycraven]

So, it looks like Read is now sitting for TK and Ghost is still in the press-box.   I think Read is on the downside but isn't he is the only player that has scored a 5 vs. 5 goal as of late?   He has also payed well defensively too....    hmmmmm.....

 

This kind of is a direct 180 to the "defensive hockey" theory...    

[King Knut]

15 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

And the locker room revolt has begun...things are going to get interesting now. 

 

I don't know how THIS is the final straw.  Maybe playing with a different line mate every night for four months would have done it earlier, but I guess not.  

 

Hak's got to understand, these guys aren't kids.  A few of them are, but most of them are grown ass men who have played for other coaches at this level.  He's got to be on the level with them and treat them like grown ups.  

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

So, it looks like Read is now sitting for TK and Ghost is still in the press-box.   I think Read is on the downside but isn't he is the only player that has scored a 5 vs. 5 goal as of late?   He has also payed well defensively too....    hmmmmm.....

 

Exactly.  I mean unless Read is sick or hurt, this troubles me.  Read and Coots have played very well together as of late and their shut down line has been pretty effective defensively, sure but they've also been the most effective play driving line at 5 on 5.  

 

I really hope Read has the flu or something because this just confuses me.  

[murraycraven]

14 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

And the locker room revolt has begun...things are going to get interesting now. 

 

 

I thought it was interesting even if speculative...

 

**IF** true the leadership needs to have a discussion with the coach.

[murraycraven]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

Exactly.  I mean unless Read is sick or hurt, this troubles me.  Read and Coots have played very well together as of late and their shut down line has been pretty effective defensively, sure but they've also been the most effective play driving line at 5 on 5.  

 

I really hope Read has the flu or something because this just confuses me.  

 

Absolutely agree....   other than an injury I have nothing in terms of understanding this.   

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

19 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't know how THIS is the final straw.  Maybe playing with a different line mate every night for four months would have done it earlier, but I guess not.  

 

Hak's got to understand, these guys aren't kids.  A few of them are, but most of them are grown ass men who have played for other coaches at this level.  He's got to be on the level with them and treat them like grown ups.  

 

If things get ugly (and with this being Philadelphia, it probably will), you can bet this will go public about who will and won't throw Hakstol under a bus. It's the Bill Barber situation all over again. If Giroux throws Hakstol under the bus and others speak out (especially those on the leadership side), Hakstol will be fired. It's too bad things are coming to this, but if the coach can't see that every defensemen under the current defense coach has digressed, then there's not much one can do. This has the potential to get ugly real fast. 

[murraycraven]

1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

If things get ugly (and with this being Philadelphia, it probably will), you can bet this will go public about who will and won't throw Hakstol under a bus. It's the Bill Barber situation all over again. If Giroux throws Hakstol under the bus and others speak out (especially those on the leadership side), Hakstol will be fired. It's too bad things are coming to this, but if the coach can't see that every defensemen under the current defense coach has digressed, then there's not much one can do. This has the potential to get ugly real fast. 

 

 

Can't argue that....  I guess what is more confusing to me is that Hextall is actually okay with all of this?   If that is true we might as well throw in the towel....

[King Knut]

10 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

If things get ugly (and with this being Philadelphia, it probably will), you can bet this will go public about who will and won't throw Hakstol under a bus. It's the Bill Barber situation all over again. If Giroux throws Hakstol under the bus and others speak out (especially those on the leadership side), Hakstol will be fired. It's too bad things are coming to this, but if the coach can't see that every defensemen under the current defense coach has digressed, then there's not much one can do. This has the potential to get ugly real fast. 

 

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.  I don't think it's that serious.  i.e. I don't think Hakstol is being as woefully out-coached at Barber was by the end.  

 

And I'm hoping that Hextall isn't as stupid as Clarke was at the time.

Clarke really should have taken Barber aside and asked him for the sake of the team and his own family to take a leave of absence.  

 

There's no shame in that.  What was going on with Barber's family at the time was clearly affecting how he was performing his job and really that's absolutely fine.  They could have made any number of adjustments and brought in someone "temporarily" or moved Barber to the front office or any million other things to keep it from getting to where it did. Plainly put, Barber should NOT have been behind that bench.

 

The thing with Hakstol is that he really owes it to his team to explain what the hell is going on.  Does Hextall know what he's thinking?  Is Hextall on board with it?  Is Hextall influencing these decisions (I have to think the MacDonald thing was influenced by Hextall, but why he's still out there now and GHost is being benched I'll never quite grasp).  

 

Maybe Hextall needs to have a sit down with the team.  Maybe Hextall needs to have a sit down with Giroux, Streit and Simmer?

 

Someone needs to do something.  And at the very least Hextall and Hakstol need to have a joint press conference where they say, "yeah, we've talked to the team, they know what we're thinking and why we're doing what we're doing.  We're doing something, we don't care to talk about it publicly, but trust us, we are."  

 

SOMETHING.  ANYTHING.  right now it just looks like a circus act and frankly, I don't want to see it turn into a lion trying to eat Roy again. 

[murraycraven]

27 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.  I don't think it's that serious.  i.e. I don't think Hakstol is being as woefully out-coached at Barber was by the end.  

 

And I'm hoping that Hextall isn't as stupid as Clarke was at the time.

Clarke really should have taken Barber aside and asked him for the sake of the team and his own family to take a leave of absence.  

 

There's no shame in that.  What was going on with Barber's family at the time was clearly affecting how he was performing his job and really that's absolutely fine.  They could have made any number of adjustments and brought in someone "temporarily" or moved Barber to the front office or any million other things to keep it from getting to where it did. Plainly put, Barber should NOT have been behind that bench.

 

The thing with Hakstol is that he really owes it to his team to explain what the hell is going on.  Does Hextall know what he's thinking?  Is Hextall on board with it?  Is Hextall influencing these decisions (I have to think the MacDonald thing was influenced by Hextall, but why he's still out there now and GHost is being benched I'll never quite grasp).  

 

Maybe Hextall needs to have a sit down with the team.  Maybe Hextall needs to have a sit down with Giroux, Streit and Simmer?

 

Someone needs to do something.  And at the very least Hextall and Hakstol need to have a joint press conference where they say, "yeah, we've talked to the team, they know what we're thinking and why we're doing what we're doing.  We're doing something, we don't care to talk about it publicly, but trust us, we are."  

 

SOMETHING.  ANYTHING.  right now it just looks like a circus act and frankly, I don't want to see it turn into a lion trying to eat Roy again. 

 

 

Again, I believe the Isaac tweet to speculative but then again maybe some of the players are whispering in his ear about their dissatisfaction with how this is being handled.   I am not going to worry about that, b/c if it is true, we will know in the near future.   

 

To me as a fan I just want to hear the reasoning behind these moves b/c they appear to be knee-jerk reaction.  I am not saying Hak is not looking at this critically but what are the reasons?  Some of these moves fly in the face of his coaching wisdom - they are very confusing.   Hak says one thing and then does the opposite - IE:  wanting to play a better defensive game thereby benching Read.

 

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm a Washington Redskins can,  so I'm used to a certain degree of drama, but damn, I'm tired of the drama in Philadelphia. It's always something. I'm with KK - Hextall, Hakstol and the leadership group need to address this situation because it's out there now. And from previous reports with regards to Hakstol scratching players he needs to talk to them directly. Be a man for once in your career and take ownership of the decisions you make and talk to the guys.  Don't have your assistants do your dirty work for you. 

[murraycraven]

4 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm a Washington Redskins can,

 

I am sorry to hear that 

[vis]

So the reporter puts out a vague notion that said reporter thinks Ghost's benchings growing old with some of the vets.  No direct quotes, no unnamed sources, etc.  Just that he thinks this may be an issue.

 

And so Hakstol and Hextall have to call a press conference to address it?  To assuage the fans?

 

Btw, I'd be ok with vets being frustrated by the benchings (assuming the reporter's assessment is accurate).  If that were the case, perhaps instead of directing frustration toward the coach (if that's happening(, they could take said players aside and work with them to resolve the issues (assuming they haven't already).

[King Knut]

19 minutes ago, vis said:

So the reporter puts out a vague notion that said reporter thinks Ghost's benchings growing old with some of the vets.  No direct quotes, no unnamed sources, etc.  Just that he thinks this may be an issue.

 

And so Hakstol and Hextall have to call a press conference to address it?  To assuage the fans?

 

Btw, I'd be ok with vets being frustrated by the benchings (assuming the reporter's assessment is accurate).  If that were the case, perhaps instead of directing frustration toward the coach (if that's happening(, they could take said players aside and work with them to resolve the issues (assuming they haven't already).

 

I think Hak and Hex should call the presser specifically because the fans are confused and frustrated.  I don't personally care about the tweet at all.  I think they should be doing something with the team to explain all of this too if they haven't.

 

I don't even need a full explanation.  I'd just appreciate something like, "I know this seems weird, and unstabilizing because we respect you enough that we know you know a bit about hockey, but don't worry.  we got this.  There is thinking going on.  Trust us."

 

To the team they should be explaining a helluva lot more.  But they can do that behind doors.  And frankly if the team is confused I can only hope the environment is such that someone can say something out loud.  

 

You can't ask blind devotion to something that seems to chaotic.  Especially when you're asking your players to put themselves on the line and buy into it and ESPECIALLY when you're asking the fans to put their money on the line and quite literally BUY into it.

 

Throw us a bone Hak/x!

 

[radoran]

This is a sport that doesn't identify injuries except to say whether they are "upper" or "lower" body injuries and we expect them to call a press conference to tell the fans what they're thinking in terms of who gets benched and who doesn't?

 

Good luck with that!

 

The team could certainly be explaining internally - and it wouldn't surprise me if it was. There are more than a few closed door opportunities for any member of the leadership group to ask Hakstol what he's thinking in (or trying to get out of) benching Ghost.

 

If nothing else, so they could assist Ghost in living up to expectations...

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

This is a sport that doesn't identify injuries except to say whether they are "upper" or "lower" body injuries and we expect them to call a press conference to tell the fans what they're thinking in terms of who gets benched and who doesn't?

 

Good luck with that!

 

The team could certainly be explaining internally - and it wouldn't surprise me if it was. There are more than a few closed door opportunities for any member of the leadership group to ask Hakstol what he's thinking in (or trying to get out of) benching Ghost.

 

If nothing else, so they could assist Ghost in living up to expectations...

 

I'm not saying they will.  I'm saying it would be nice and probably a good idea if they did.  People are getting frustrated.  People whose entire job is to say nice things and be excited about the Flyers are getting sick of watching the Flyers.   

 

I'm not talking about telling us anything real.  Just telling us "I know it seems crazy, but it's okay.  We've got this."  

 

And it's good business sense as well... 

What are you more inclined to spend money on?  Having some insight and ability to trust that the team has some plan is certain to affect tickets and merchandise sales on a bubble team that just looks "meh" to "blah" right now.  

You don't need to tell them much, but you gotta give them reason to believe.  And right now it's getting more and more difficult to suspend disbelief.  

 

 

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

And it's good business sense as well... 

What are you more inclined to spend money on?  Having some insight and ability to trust that the team has some plan is certain to affect tickets and merchandise sales on a bubble team that just looks "meh" to "blah" right now.  

You don't need to tell them much, but you gotta give them reason to believe.  And right now it's getting more and more difficult to suspend disbelief. 

 

Might be a good thing for them, but I really don't expect it. They never have before and that's more or less worked for them for 50 years.

 

Most of the seats - probably the vast majority - are already paid for (like my own, for example). That said, I'm not rushing to renew for next season (although the sales staff would apparently love that).

 

Ghost is -19 and is at .43 ppg as opposed to last year's .72 ppg. I don't think it's too too hard to figure out that he's having trouble out there.  The simple answer to his scoring is that he's simply not getting the power play and 3-on-3 time he got last season. The question about his confidence and overall play is another thing entirely.

 

I don't think ongoing "healthy scratches" are a good thing, but he clearly hasn't worn out his waiver total and could be sent to the AHL to play more and work it out (as noted previously, by many, including communication with the coach in the Lehigh Valley as to what he should be working on).

 

Again, the "plan" when he was called up was to use him somewhat sparingly in a "solid, two-way" role and his offensive flair simply blew that plan out of the water. Now he's not getting the same offensive chances and being asked to provide the "solid, two-way" play that most expect from NHL defensemen.

 

But one need look no further than the previous two Calder-winning defensemen (Ekblad, Myers) to see that a "slump" is not at all uncommon, even for Calder "finalists." Ekblad's hauling around a -18 with a .29 ppg this season. Myers isn't even on the team that drafted and signed him.

[vis]

I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect the organization to have a press conference to fill the fans in when they're confused.

 

Hakstol and Hextall would be calling pressers daily if that were the case.

 

Seriously, though, I'm not sure to what extent the "fans" are entitled to an explanation.  Frankly, I don't think we are.  Don't like it?  Stop being a fan.  

 

However, I do think the media should at least be asking the relevant questions of management.  How mgt responds is up to them, in full recognition that they are subject to criticism based on that response (or lack thereof).

[ruxpin]

9 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

I thought it was interesting even if speculative...

 

**IF** true the leadership needs to have a discussion with the coach.

They have leadership?  When did that start?  Was the team told? 

[hf101]

20 hours ago, radoran said:

Ghost is -19 and is at .43 ppg as opposed to last year's .72 ppg. I don't think it's too too hard to figure out that he's having trouble out there.  The simple answer to his scoring is that he's simply not getting the power play and 3-on-3 time he got last season. The question about his confidence and overall play is another thing entirely.

 

 

I'm beginning to think that Ghost is upstairs to observe Streit.  If the Flyers look like they aren't making the playoffs there is probably a great chance Streit is traded to a contender.  Think about it,  there is only 8 games until the Trade Deadline.   Ghost could easily be scratched for another 6-8 games and it wouldn't matter one bit in the grand Hextall Scheme.

[flyercanuck]

11 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

I'm beginning to think that Ghost is upstairs to observer Streit.  If the Flyers look like they aren't making the playoffs there is probably a great chance Streit is traded to a contender.  Think about it,  there is only 8 games until the Trade Deadline.   Ghost could easily be scratched for another 6-8 games and it wouldn't matter one bit in the grand Hextall Scheme.

 

I'd like Streit dealt whether the Flyers think they're playoff bound  or  not. 

 

Streit is NOT the difference between a deep run and early exit.

[murraycraven]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

 

I'd like Streit dealt whether the Flyers think they're playoff bound  or  not. 

 

Streit is NOT the difference between a deep run and early exit.

 

Nor is he the difference in actually making the playoffs.   MDZ and Streit should be dealt but you need a mixture of a team wanting a player and Hextall's asking price.   

[flyercanuck]

5 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

Nor is he the difference in actually making the playoffs.   MDZ and Streit should be dealt but you need a mixture of a team wanting a player and Hextall's asking price.   

 

Certainly....but most teams that feel they have a chance want depth at D for the playoffs.