flyercanuck Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: And i can't blame him after his last deal. Well depending on his wants he could be shipped out for a nice haul. I hate for him to go but it is part of the business. Bingo. There's going to be substantial raises coming for Provorov and Konecny and Patrick (thankfully Couturier and Ghost are wrapped up on great deals) and further down the road on the likes of Frost/Sanheim/Myers or whoever deserves one. Hextall is going to have to juggle who stays and what gets moved for more youth...that's how he rolls, and it will keep the Flyers competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: And i can't blame him after his last deal. Well depending on his wants he could be shipped out for a nice haul. I hate for him to go but it is part of the business. I love Simmer, but probably time to move on. When guys sign long term deals at his age, they want to get paid like stars when it's obvious they will decline over the last part of the deal. I believe Hexy will be cold and calculating, and do what is best for the team, which is getting a TON for him as a rental or keep him for the playoffs and just move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, jammer2 said: I love Simmer, but probably time to move on. I agree. I hate to but maybe it is best. So here is the biggest question! When do you do it?? At the draft? But free agency starts?? After it starts and some of the rosters are more settled?? Or wait during the year closer to around next year's trade deadline?? I myself think that is should happen before the season starts....gives the team time to get over such a big move so it won't affect their play say doing it next February and causing them to lose some game getting over it. A huge move like that being a heart and soul type should be given the chance to adjust during the offseason. They of course will try to hammer out a deal an then say they can't then ship him off for the biggest return...hopefully out West! Just for argument sake what about back to LA for a deal centered around Gabriel Vilardi and a pick??? Or Kyle Clague and a pick?? Or if you want guys closer to being ready: Erik Cernak and Alexander Dergachyov and a pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 I would love to see Simmer go full circle and go back to LA. Any deal giving us Vilardi back would be awesome!! That kid is gonna be a 30 goal scorer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I think the Flyers really only have two choices with Simmonds, because unless he's willing to take a significant hometown discount, they probably can't afford to keep him. A - move him after the season, leading up to the draft. I think that if they know he's not in the future plans, this is the way to go. They can bring in young players and picks and integrate them in camp. B - Let him walk in free agency. I assume next year, barring a catastrophe, the Flyers will be solidly in the playoff hunt. There's no way they move Simmonds in that scenario. The locker room and the fans would revolt, even though it would make sense from an asset management perspective. So if he's here at the opening of the season, barring a significant down year, he's playing out the string in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, AJgoal said: I think the Flyers really only have two choices with Simmonds, because unless he's willing to take a significant hometown discount, they probably can't afford to keep him. A - move him after the season, leading up to the draft. I think that if they know he's not in the future plans, this is the way to go. They can bring in young players and picks and integrate them in camp. B - Let him walk in free agency. I assume next year, barring a catastrophe, the Flyers will be solidly in the playoff hunt. There's no way they move Simmonds in that scenario. The locker room and the fans would revolt, even though it would make sense from an asset management perspective. So if he's here at the opening of the season, barring a significant down year, he's playing out the string in Philly. It's a tough call for sure. It feels like Simmer is different somehow to most of the rest. It's not like Schenn who never seemed to fit anywhere on the ice, and whom we rarely ever heard about off of it. Simmer seems to have some amount of leadership qualities in there as well. We may laugh at that as fans, but I do think teams place a decent value on such things. Adding to that, prior to this year he was arguably the best value scorer in the league. He has a lot to fall on in terms of contract negotiation from both a production and locker room perspective. Does his diminished role this season factor in to the equation? How does he feel about his ability to perform going forward? Is he the type who will just demand a bunch of money with no real regards for team dynamics and future budgets? There are plenty of precedents of players who have accepted "lower" pay to stick around with a team they feel an attachment to. Also, this is a team clearly on the upswing. Whether they are considered a dark horse contender this year or not will likely be proven down the coming stretch; however, by next year they should be very firmly in a playoff conversation all year (barring an unfortunate string of injuries of course). How important is it for him to contend for the cup over the course of his next contract? If it's high on the list, he could do a lot worse than stick around Philly for another handful of years. That's not to say he'll stay of course. Ron is nothing if not shrewd, and he definitely seems like the type of guy who puts the team before the player. Moving Schenn at the draft this year is a good indication of his mentality in this regard. Schenn wasn't in the plans, so Hex got what he felt would be top value for him. It's entirely possible the same would happen with Simmer. I think it's a different situation in that Simmer has been a part of the core and leadership group, whereas Schenn really never was, but that doesn't mean Ron wouldn't pull the trigger anyway for the good of the team. It'll be interesting to see anyway. Given Hexy's track record with drafts, I think you're absolutely right in that the draft could be a likely time to move him. He'd get a solid haul for sure. The main challenge of course is that teams who would want Simmonds next year are not likely to be high first round teams this coming draft. It would be this year's contenders looking to bolster their group for next season... of which we may be one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 59 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I agree. I hate to but maybe it is best. So here is the biggest question! When do you do it?? At the draft? But free agency starts?? After it starts and some of the rosters are more settled?? Or wait during the year closer to around next year's trade deadline?? I myself think that is should happen before the season starts....gives the team time to get over such a big move so it won't affect their play say doing it next February and causing them to lose some game getting over it. A huge move like that being a heart and soul type should be given the chance to adjust during the offseason. They of course will try to hammer out a deal an then say they can't then ship him off for the biggest return...hopefully out West! Just for argument sake what about back to LA for a deal centered around Gabriel Vilardi and a pick??? Or Kyle Clague and a pick?? Or if you want guys closer to being ready: Erik Cernak and Alexander Dergachyov and a pick? I don't think Simmonds fetches Vilardi. Put another way, would you trade away Morgan Frost+ for a 30 year old Simmonds? More likely, you'll get a 1st round pick and a middle six player, hopefully still young enough to fit within this team's growth path. I'd do it at the draft, where it gives you more options (combining picks to move up and grab someone you really want). Plus all GMs are in the same room - great time to wheel and deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, elmatus said: Also, this is a team clearly on the upswing. Whether they are considered a dark horse contender this year or not will likely be proven down the coming stretch; however, by next year they should be very firmly in a playoff conversation all year (barring an unfortunate string of injuries of course). How important is it for him to contend for the cup over the course of his next contract? If it's high on the list, he could do a lot worse than stick around Philly for another handful of years. Maybe his thought will be - I've come this far with these guys (friends), I want to see it to the end? I don't make millions of dollars to play a game so the athlete mentality is nothing I'm familiar with but maybe he'll see it as his best shot at a cup with the guys he's played with all these years. Am I naive in thinking he'd take a fair contract for the chance to parade down Board Street with his buds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, brelic said: I don't think Simmonds fetches Vilardi. Put another way, would you trade away Morgan Frost+ for a 30 year old Simmonds? Just an example and it ain't like they can add to a trade to make it happen. Simmer could get you Erik Cernak and Alexander Dergachyov for sure, i would take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 40 minutes ago, fan4ever said: Maybe his thought will be - I've come this far with these guys (friends), I want to see it to the end? It could how much is it to change it all for him?? Only he knows....i'm sure in his head he has a dollar amount and length he would be happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, fan4ever said: Maybe his thought will be - I've come this far with these guys (friends), I want to see it to the end? I don't make millions of dollars to play a game so the athlete mentality is nothing I'm familiar with but maybe he'll see it as his best shot at a cup with the guys he's played with all these years. Am I naive in thinking he'd take a fair contract for the chance to parade down Board Street with his buds? Sure, also it's not like he won't get paid if he stays. Hex isn't going to demand he take some sort of pay cut for a very short term or anything. He still has 20 goals so far this year, and that's in a considerably diminished role. To those of us watching, we realize he seems to have been playing a bit slower this season, but that may be some sort of lingering issue or whatever. Point being, he's been considered elite for a number of years. Players have down years. This season could easily be partially that and partially the fact he's playing on the 3rd line with generally lesser players, and has been for a good part of the season now. Over the past four years, he has a total of 111 goals, by far the best on the team over that time. So, let's say hex offers him five million per year for four. Some would say that's a steal for a PP soldier who averages 30 goals a season. He'd be on the back end of 30 of course, so realistically that may be 20-25 per season, which does seem like an overpayment imo, unless "leadership qualities" count for more than we realize. Still, having a 20-25 goal scorer on your third line who can move up if needed and be a great PP presence is pretty nice. Obviously I'm not sure Simmonds would accept such a contract. Folks are right in that he's at an age where NHLers tend to ask for the moon, knowing it may be their last top dollar contract. There are clearly more of that type of pro player than of the type of do agree to hometown discounts, so history isn't on our side really. It's a challenge for sure. A good challenge to have, but a challenge nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 4 hours ago, jammer2 said: I would love to see Simmer go full circle and go back to LA. Any deal giving us Vilardi back would be awesome!! That kid is gonna be a 30 goal scorer Don't count Ron out...he could break out some of his... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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