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OccamsRazor

Flyers 2018-19 Offseason moves

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6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

The guys I worry about are Gudas and Mcdud

 

McDud had a quietly decent year I found. Not great by any measure, but decent. It was probably his best season ever as a Flyers imo. I'm not sure what the difference was. Maybe the reduced role due to Provo and Ghost stepping up as a great first pair for much of the year.

 

Gudas was just the opposite. It seems pretty obvious the brass sat him down and told him he needs to be more careful with the physical play. While I do understand why they would do that -- having 150-200 PIMs each season is problematic -- the fact is Gudas' effectiveness as an NHL player is because of his physicality. Take that away, and you have a guy who tries hard but can't provide the same skill level as others around him -- a lot like Manning really.

 

I don't think Gudas is a bad player. He just can't be asked to play this type of game and still be effective. Given that, I think he should be the first to go to make room for Morin. Send him somewhere he'll be allowed to play his game. It'll be better for him and better for the Flyers.

 

Given how atrocious the Flyers PK was all year, we're all very lucky he was asked to tone it down. We'd have lost every game by five goals otherwise.

Edited by elmatus
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8 minutes ago, elmatus said:

. It was probably his best season ever as a Flyers imo.

 

Well that is setting the bar real high!:hehe:

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9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You try to do it when the other teams around the leagues rosters are pretty much set because if you claim a guy he has to be on your roster you can't assign him to the AHL once claimed.

I hear you but, I thought there was a date early in camp by when guys could be assigned without waivers.  I'm probably wrong because that would be a big loophole.

 

Quote

Honestly i'm not worried about him I think he will prove him self next camp preseason.

I just think he's in a tough spot having not played a lot of meaningful hockey in over a year by that time.  Though, he did play Saturday night and drew a charging penalty (atta boy!).  They lost 6-0 and gave up 4PPG.  Morin was even but was on the ice for one PPG.  (Meanwhile, Myers was on the ice for two EVG and two PPG.  Ouch.)

 

Quote

The guys I worry about are Gudas and Mcdud and even though at times they both have played ok I can't wait till they are no longer on the team.

Agree on this, though I'm not as bothered by McDonald.

Edited by vis

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Could someone please explain the below to me?   What is this?  (from CBA, section 13)

 

13.2 The "Playing Season Waiver Period" shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club's Playing Season. Subject to the provisions of this Article, the rights to the services of a Player may be Loaned to a club of another league, upon fulfillment of the following conditions, except when elsewhere expressly prohibited:

 

(a) Regular Waivers were requested and cleared during the Playing Season Waiver Period; and

(b) the Player has not played in ten (10) or more NHL Games cumulative since Regular Waivers on him were last cleared, and more than thirty (30) days cumulative on an NHL roster have not passed since Regular Waivers on him were last cleared.

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If I read it right, it means that if a player was waived at the end of the previous season but not loaned, they can be assigned to another league as long as they were waived within 30 days of the end of their team's season and did not play in 10 games. So if the Flyers had waived Weal at the end of the season, but not sent him to the AHL, and he sat in the pressbox for all but 9 games, he could be sent to the AHL prior to the start of next season without first clearing waivers.

 

I think that's what it means, but I'm not certain.

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12 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

If I read it right, it means that if a player was waived at the end of the previous season but not loaned, they can be assigned to another league as long as they were waived within 30 days of the end of their team's season and did not play in 10 games. So if the Flyers had waived Weal at the end of the season, but not sent him to the AHL, and he sat in the pressbox for all but 9 games, he could be sent to the AHL prior to the start of next season without first clearing waivers.

 

I think that's what it means, but I'm not certain.

 

Thanks.

 

See, I'm reading it in a way that was along the lines of what @vis was saying, but I was openly asking because the wording is a bit confusing.

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Thanks.

 

See, I'm reading it in a way that was along the lines of what @vis was saying, but I was openly asking because the wording is a bit confusing.

 I think the key is this section:

 

(a) Regular Waivers were requested and cleared during the Playing Season Waiver Period; and

 

The only way that can be a condition is if it's referring to the previous season.

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5 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 I think the key is this section:

 

(a) Regular Waivers were requested and cleared during the Playing Season Waiver Period; and

 

The only way that can be a condition is if it's referring to the previous season.

 

I *thought* that "a" and "b" were express prohibitions, not conditions.  So, for example, if "a" existed, you could not do the preceding paragraph.

 

Why can't they write these things in English?   I think this "loophole" was expressed in a clearer way in the previous CBAs, wasn't it?  In any case, they should bring Morin up and be done with it.

 

EDIT:   I just re-read for the 12th time and see what you're saying.  I believe you're right.

Edited by ruxpin

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3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Why can't they write these things in English?   I think this "loophole" was expressed in a clearer way in the previous CBAs, wasn't it?  In any case, they should bring Morin up and be done with it.

 

Gotta pay the lawyers. And on my most recent read-through, I'm not sure they can't have been loaned to another club in the intervening time. I think this is meant to prevent kvetching over players being waived more often than would normally be required during the course of the season due to the offseason break. Typically, if a player is waived and cleared, he can go back and forth between the AHL and NHL as much as they want for 30 days, unless he plays 10 NHL games. So this is meant to "carry over" days from the previous season. I think.

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2 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Gotta pay the lawyers. And on my most recent read-through, I'm not sure they can't have been loaned to another club in the intervening time. I think this is meant to prevent kvetching over players being waived more often than would normally be required during the course of the season due to the offseason break. Typically, if a player is waived and cleared, he can go back and forth between the AHL and NHL as much as they want for 30 days, unless he plays 10 NHL games. So this is meant to "carry over" days from the previous season. I think.

 

This may be the best explanation yet.  Thanks!

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

Thanks.

 

See, I'm reading it in a way that was along the lines of what @vis was saying, but I was openly asking because the wording is a bit confusing.

Thanks, rux,  Yeah, the "Playing Season Waiver Period" is what I was thinking of.  I was wondering if you could assign a player who would otherwise be subject to waivers to the AHL before the waiver period starts and avoid waivers.  My guess is that you can't because it would be a major loophole, especially since re-entry waivers is no longer a thing.  So, I'm guessing a player on an NHL contract who is not waiver exempt could only be loaned to another team during the waiver period.

 

As for the second paragraph, my sense is that it is to protect teams from losing players soon after they first cleared.  Let's say Weal was waived to the AHL and no one claimed him.  A few days later Weal is recalled because of an injury to another player.  When the injured player returns, Weal wouldn't have to go through waivers again as long he has been on the roster for no more than 30 days (which need not be consecutive) since last clearing and has played in fewer than 10 games since last clearing.  It would enable teams to recall a previously waiver player to cover a short term injury without having to worry about losing the player to waivers when sent back down.

 

Edited by vis
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59 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

The only way that can be a condition is if it's referring to the previous season.

I don't think so.  See the scenario I suggested above.

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2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

You know what? I don't know.

Me neither!!

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It will work itself out.

 

Sanheim and Sam will have a great camp and preseason and Gudas will be serving hot n ready popcorn...till maybe the the trade deadline and he could maybe be moved for whatever...and injuries happen so he will be fine as a 7th till then.

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On 5/5/2018 at 9:28 PM, vis said:

 

That's the only reason I'd consider keeping him in the AHL.  He lost a year in development and maybe even took a step back.  I think it would take him a while to get re-acclimated to AHL games, let along the NHL game.  It does suck for him.

 

I haven't done any research on the long term cap implications.  But, I do think they have the flexibility to do it given the younger players on the rise and the rest of your post seems to indicate that as well.  When is the CBA up?  I guess we could probably use a cap compliance out on Voracek after the next lock-out.

 

I really have no idea what the market will be for Tavares.  When is the last time a FA of his ilk became available in the open market?  Demand will probably be pretty high for him from a few teams and the Isles, I'm sure, will match just about anything.  Plus, it's hard to compare him to McDavid and Eichel contract-wise because they are younger and signed long-term deals, trading salary for term.  Kane and Toews signed their deals four years ago.  Ovechkin signed 10 years ago.  Maybe Kopitar is a reasonable comp since he signed more than two years ago.  He got a monster deal plus term.  And he carries at $10m cap hit, but never hit the open market.  I think it's a very tough call.  Tavares missed out on a great bridge deal.  He may try to make up for it now.  I'm not sure if I'd be more leery about the term or the $$ at that rate.

 

that year of development  in the AHL probably won’t help Morin much.  He was ready last year and many were shocked Hagg got the call.  A month might help him since he was out so long, but they can’t do that. 

 

Not sure on the CBA.  I’ll worry about buying out Voracek when he produces less.  Voracek is everyone favorite whipping boy, but his 64 assists are just fine with me. 

 

The thing about Tavares is that he really can’t push it too much further.  No one will accept that he deserves McDavid money. I think Kopitar is a good comparison.  Tires and Kane are also cautionary tales. Still good 4 years later, but Giroux and Voracek look better right now. 

 

The islanders can offer whatever they want, but if Tavares wants to leave matching won’t help them. Their situation can’t be appealing to him.  How is a team without a home going to fill out a roster if they give one guy 11million vs a team that sells out every night? 

 

My guess is he ends up out west to avoid the controversy of leaving.  He would be hated eternally if he went to Philly it the rangers.  

 

 

 

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On 5/5/2018 at 10:25 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

No it really isn't he will have to pass through waivers to get sent down.

 

He will be a Flyer. No way Ron is that dumb to give him up like that. He will be fine by next season and I think will earn a spot even if it is on the bottom pair.

 

Good.  He needs to be on the Flyers. He should have earn d it last year. 

 

He and Hagg were neck and neck and his upside is just so much greater.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Could someone please explain the below to me?   What is this?  (from CBA, section 13)

 

13.2 The "Playing Season Waiver Period" shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club's Playing Season. Subject to the provisions of this Article, the rights to the services of a Player may be Loaned to a club of another league, upon fulfillment of the following conditions, except when elsewhere expressly prohibited:

 

(a) Regular Waivers were requested and cleared during the Playing Season Waiver Period; and

(b) the Player has not played in ten (10) or more NHL Games cumulative since Regular Waivers on him were last cleared, and more than thirty (30) days cumulative on an NHL roster have not passed since Regular Waivers on him were last cleared.

 

Pretty sure we discussed this last year or the year before.  If my memory serves, we came up with these conclusions.

1.  All players invited to camp start on the NHL roster.

2.  Waiver exempt players can be sent down to their respective league/team at any time.

3.  Players who are not waiver exempt can only be sent down during the "Playing Season Waiver Period".

 

I'm sure we came up with several other conclusions but I don't remember them.

 

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2 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Pretty sure we discussed this last year or the year before.  If my memory serves, we came up with these conclusions.

1.  All players invited to camp start on the NHL roster.

2.  Waiver exempt players can be sent down to their respective league/team at any time.

3.  Players who are not waiver exempt can only be sent down during the "Playing Season Waiver Period".

 

I'm sure we came up with several other conclusions but I don't remember them.

 

 

Yes and that is right.

 

Some think being on a two way contract excludes from waivers that just means they have two different salaries one if called up the other is for when in the AHL.

 

To me it is why I wish the Flyers would utilize their entry level contracts more evaluations while they are exempt to waivers.

 

Ron does like doing that.

 

Therefor by the time like evaluating guys like Morin you have to project more.

 

And that is hard to do going from less talent overall in the AHL compared to more speed size and less space to operate like in the NHL.

 

Now you get to where you are forced to keep guys up and just scratch them to keep from losing them on waivers.

 

It's not an easy job to do so much easy to judge sitting behind the computer. :scratcheshead:

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2 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Pretty sure we discussed this last year or the year before.  If my memory serves, we came up with these conclusions.

1.  All players invited to camp start on the NHL roster.

2.  Waiver exempt players can be sent down to their respective league/team at any time.

3.  Players who are not waiver exempt can only be sent down during the "Playing Season Waiver Period".

 

I'm sure we came up with several other conclusions but I don't remember them.

 

Thanks.  This makes perfect sense.

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10 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Pretty sure we discussed this last year or the year before.  If my memory serves, we came up with these conclusions.

1.  All players invited to camp start on the NHL roster.

2.  Waiver exempt players can be sent down to their respective league/team at any time.

3.  Players who are not waiver exempt can only be sent down during the "Playing Season Waiver Period".

 

I'm sure we came up with several other conclusions but I don't remember them.

 

Thank you. I missed all that previously. But that was pretty straightforward and quite helpful. 

 

Could you please write the next CBA? 

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:53 AM, FD19372 said:

Trade Voracek, Hagg, Elliott  to Edmonton for Cam Talbot and a pick (or fill in some scenario that could get us Talbot).

 

 

Voracek, Gudas, Neuvy, Stolarz and to Edmonton for Cam Talbot a 3rd and Pontus Aberg (or fill in some scenario that could get us Talbot).

 

Some minor adjustments.

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48 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Voracek, Gudas, Neuvy, Stolarz and to Edmonton for Cam Talbot a 3rd and Pontus Aberg (or fill in some scenario that could get us Talbot).

 

Some minor adjustments.

 

You had me at Voracek! :VeryCool:

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Flyers need to take a run at this Czech LW free agent...

 

6-1 190 was a 2013 7th round pick back when Hextall was with the Kings....

 

 

 

Kid has a nice shot and a cannon not sure why LA never signed him but go for it!!!!!

Edited by OccamsRazor

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