Eklund rumor : Flyers in "heavy" pursuit of Karlsson....

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I didn't think either team has quite so much space to be screwing around with it.  If it's the Flyers, you have to assume Simmonds is involved.  There's also the fact that Neuvirth and Elliott's contracts are also both gone after this year.  Maybe they'll need to bring someone back (or new) but presumably, it won't be a big deal goalie.  

 

I just don't see it as worth it.  I don't know the lightning prospect pool well enough to comment on how much sense it makes for them.  

 

We have it for Miller/Johnson/Stralman range.  I wouldn't hurt anything.  It's all just imaginary talk anyway.  It's never going to happen.

 

But Tampa...yeah, I think it's utter foolishness.  They lost to the eventual Cup champion in the semis who basically ran over the WCC who had up to then been running over everyone else.   Why blow that up a la Richards/Carter to bring in Karlsson?   I think  it's a huge mistake for Tampa.   I mean, I'm fine if they do that, but I wouldn't be if I were a Bolts fan.

[ruxpin]

9 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I don't know the lightning prospect pool well enough to comment on how much sense it makes for them.  

 

I don't really either.   This has them ranked 7th, which is tough to swallow since they've been drafting fairly late the past few years and have traded away some draft picks.    But according to this, they have some depth:

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2018-19-organizational-prospects-rankings/

 

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't really either.   This has them ranked 7th, which is tough to swallow since they've been drafting fairly late the past few years and have traded away some draft picks.    But according to this, they have some depth:

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2018-19-organizational-prospects-rankings/

 

 

Nice to see the Flyers at #1   (Great article ..thanks for sharing   )

 

 

Philadelphia Flyers, A+

Rank (1)

The Flyers were the consensus number one ranked team. GM Ron Hextall has done a tremendous job of acquiring a bevy of good to elite prospects at every position. The top 10 scored high across the board, they received a healthy boost from their U-21 roster talent as well as bonus points for their depth beyond the top 10. – Peter Harling

 

One of the deepest and most dangerous pipelines in hockey, the Flyers are primed for success on the front and back end. The plethora of high-end prospects in their system, not to mention the ones ALREADY contributing in the NHL, could potentially lead to the Flyers trading one or more of them away in exchange for high-end help now. Brayden Olafson

 

They continue to lead the way with depth and options. Lots of talent who will have solid NHL careers. This team will be the next one to surprise and grab a division title soon. – Joel Henderson

 

One of the deepest and most dangerous pipelines in hockey, the Flyers are primed for success on the front and back end. The plethora of high-end prospects in their system, not to mention the ones already contributing in the NHL, could potentially lead to the Flyers trading one or more away in exchange for high-end help now. – Jokke Nevalainen

Top 10 Prospects

1. Carter Hart
2. Morgan Frost
3. German Rubtsov
4. Philippe Myers
5. Isaac Ratcliffe
6. Sam Morin
7. Oskar Lindblom
8. Wade Allison
9. Tanner Laczynski
10. Felix Sandstrom

U-21 Roster Players: Nolan Patrick, Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny, Travis Sanheim

Other notable prospects: Matt Strome, Carsen Twarynski, Maxim Shusko, David Kase, Nicolas Aube-Kubel

2018 Draft picks by round: 1: Joel Farabee (14th), Jay O’Brien (19). Round 2: Adam Ginning (50). Round 3: None. Round 4: Jack St. Ivany (112). Round 5: Wyatte Wylie (127), Samuel Ersson (143). Round 6: Gavin Hain (174)> Round: Marcus Westfalt (225).

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I didn't think either team has quite so much space to be screwing around with it.  If it's the Flyers, you have to assume Simmonds is involved.

 

You know, we'd actually have room for Kucherov, but it would require moving out Simmonds (both for cap and because now too many RWers).   They could make it part of the Tampa/Ottawa deal but Simmonds would have to go to Ottawa.  I know this is supposed to be a business, but he's done nothing to deserve Ottawa and couldn't bring myself to do that to him.

 

We'd have to move him in a separate deal and quickly.

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Philadelphia Flyers, A+

Rank (1)

The Flyers were the consensus number one ranked team. GM Ron Hextall has done a tremendous job of acquiring a bevy of good to elite prospects at every position. The top 10 scored high across the board, they received a healthy boost from their U-21 roster talent as well as bonus points for their depth beyond the top

 

This is why I'm not really terribly excited about blowing that up for the shiny du jour.   Kucherov is young enough and good enough I'd move some pieces for him.  Panarin, too.   But it has to be in that vein.

 

But neither are at all necessary and I'm happy to just sit and watch our garden grow.

 

 

Btw, you're welcome for my posting, but I think it was brelic who actually posted as a separate thread or I wouldn't have been aware of it. 

 

EDIT:  Whoops, it was jammer   

 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

We have it for Miller/Johnson/Stralman range.  I wouldn't hurt anything.  It's all just imaginary talk anyway.  It's never going to happen.

 

But Tampa...yeah, I think it's utter foolishness.  They lost to the eventual Cup champion in the semis who basically ran over the WCC who had up to then been running over everyone else.   Why blow that up a la Richards/Carter to bring in Karlsson?   I think  it's a huge mistake for Tampa.   I mean, I'm fine if they do that, but I wouldn't be if I were a Bolts fan.

 

Serious question - would you feel differently if the Flyers had won the Cup in 2010? That would make Pronger trade look genius.

 

We have the memory of an amazing playoff run - almost storybook - but with a bitter and painful ending. Does a Cup change that?

 

If the Flyers have multiple deep playoff runs and look like they're soooo close and it's the downside of Giroux, Voracek, and so on, maybe you make one bold move and sacrifice some riches to get the Cup. 

 

I think that's how Tampa sees it. 

 

I mean, Washington traded Filip Forsberg for about 20 games of Martin freaking Erat, but does anyone care anymore?

 

 

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Serious question - would you feel differently if the Flyers had won the Cup in 2010? That would make Pronger trade look genius.

 

We have the memory of an amazing playoff run - almost storybook - but with a bitter and painful ending. Does a Cup change that?

 

If the Flyers have multiple deep playoff runs and look like they're soooo close and it's the downside of Giroux, Voracek, and so on, maybe you make one bold move and sacrifice some riches to get the Cup. 

 

I think that's how Tampa sees it. 

 

I mean, Washington traded Filip Forsberg for about 20 games of Martin freaking Erat, but does anyone care anymore?

 

 

 

It's a decent question.  It's also one that I'm not sure what my answer is, to be honest.

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Serious question - would you feel differently if the Flyers had won the Cup in 2010? That would make Pronger trade look genius.

 

We have the memory of an amazing playoff run - almost storybook - but with a bitter and painful ending. Does a Cup change that?

 

If the Flyers have multiple deep playoff runs and look like they're soooo close and it's the downside of Giroux, Voracek, and so on, maybe you make one bold move and sacrifice some riches to get the Cup. 

 

I think that's how Tampa sees it. 

 

I mean, Washington traded Filip Forsberg for about 20 games of Martin freaking Erat, but does anyone care anymore?

 

 

 

The Pronger trade wasn't the problem.  Even without those draft picks, that's not what decimated the Flyers.  

Besides, we're likely to be talking about twice as much money per year for a similar duration.  

 

If they can pull it off, maybe he gets them over the top, but if it doesn't work, the deal really puts the screws on them way worse than the Pronger deal did for the Flyers.

 

Same is true if the Flyers somehow pull him off. 

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

The Pronger trade wasn't the problem.  Even without those draft picks, that's not what decimated the Flyers.  

Besides, we're likely to be talking about twice as much money per year for a similar duration.  

 

If they can pull it off, maybe he gets them over the top, but if it doesn't work, the deal really puts the screws on them way worse than the Pronger deal did for the Flyers.

 

Same is true if the Flyers somehow pull him off. 

 

 

 

 

 

Right. It's a different situation, different contract, different cost. But the main question I was getting at is, if the Lightning win a Cup over the next few years, is that all forgotten, including the potential cap headaches down the road?

 

[King Knut]

24 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Right. It's a different situation, different contract, different cost. But the main question I was getting at is, if the Lightning win a Cup over the next few years, is that all forgotten, including the potential cap headaches down the road?

 

 

I don't know.  

 

The Eagles Super Bowl was the antidote to the poison that was Chip Kelly, but I'm still not over what he did to the team.  

 

That's not really relevant, but it occurred to me that if he'd won a super bowl and THEN did all that, I wonder how I'd feel?  

 

I think it's different in Tampa than it is here too.  They won one this century.  There can't possibly be as much pressure as there is in Philly.

 

Then again, it was acting like this that got the Flyers to where they were.  Not doing it once on a Pronger, but doing it over and over again for 25 years or more and that's likely why I'm more gunshy.  We've been down that road.  It's paved with good intentions.  It didn't lead to the promised land.  So far, Hexy's road may not be the fastest, but it has the feel of the longest lasting returns.  

[ruxpin]

35 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Right. It's a different situation, different contract, different cost. But the main question I was getting at is, if the Lightning win a Cup over the next few years, is that all forgotten, including the potential cap headaches down the road?

 

I said I wasn't sure.  Largely because it's a "what if" that we obviously didn't experience.  The knee jerk response is greatly influenced by the the pain we did. 

 

My focus was largely on the Richards/Carter/Bryz thing because, for me, it was more closely comparable in the aspect I was thinking about:  a team almost there but it's top end talent gutted to fit a "last piece" (in this case goalie). 

 

I think that one was a mistake out of the gate and was counter-productive to making that last mile. 

 

In that respect, I view Tampa in a similar way.  Say they have to move out Kucherov and McDonagh to accommodate the space.  They've spent more to replace Kucherov and also lost McDonagh.  That, to me, is foolishness. 

 

If it were just some prospects and picks, it wouldn't be as big a deal. But it has to be more than that for the money to work. 

 

I get the urge to compare to Pronger given they're both top end defensemen in their time, but the situations of the respective teams aren't the same.  When the Flyers got Pronger, they were close but not on the doorstep like Tampa is now. Getting Pronger got them there. And they really only sacrificed picks and prospects (as bad as that was). 

 

Had they won in 2010?  Some wounds aren't as profound, to be sure.  Not just Pronger, but the Richards/Carter thing, wouldn't be "right there, we blew it up, and have been horrible since." 

 

My only similar first hand experience was the Phillies, but they did win. They'd built a team largely from prospects and picks and won with a lineup that was all homegrown except third base.  Their ace pitcher was homegrown and then others filled in around. 

 

They could have won several but started bringing in high price tag pitchers--both in terms of salary but also picks, prospects, and players the Phillies lost because they couldn't afford the higher payroll. 

 

The world series parade forgiveness period lasted maybe 4-5 years and the park that had been sold out for 3-4 consecutive years was to 35% of capacity. 

 

So, had the Flyers won, I would have enjoyed it.  But I think that wouldn't have changed our lack of results the past few years (unless for the worse) and the forgiveness period would have been long expired. 

 

I think if we don't trade Carter and Richards and do the disastrous Bryz signing maybe we get another shot or two at it.  Who knows? 

 

I would have enjoyed a parade, though. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

I'm still not over what he did to the team. 

 

 

Well he did some good things for the team that now with hindsights helped bring the Super Bowl home.

 

He sent Foles packing...which help spur him into the hardships he faced that made him the man he was once he returned.

 

He drafted Lane Johnson the best Offensive line the Eagles have ever drafted.

 

He sent Desean Jackson packing which helped a lot because he is easy to defeat with his route running.

 

He brought in Sam Bradford, Demarco Murray and Kiko Alonso in and traded Shady McCoy all which was used to help get the Wentz pick from Cleveland once Roseman returned a new man after what Chip did to him.

 

Yes i know it is easy to see now and at the time it happened it was mind boggling what he did but all those types of moves had an effect on shaping the Super Bowl team we just enjoyed.

 

Just like losing and not making the playoffs paid huge dividends on the Flyers being able to select cornerstone defenseman Ivan Provorov.

 

Sometimes it takes things that seem crazy at the time to bring about good things.

 

It is the way i view Hextall and what he is doing for the club....all the crazy stuff that happened in the past maybe helps us appreciate they way he doing things now and hopefully will help us enjoy a Cup in the future.

 

#Cuporbust

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

8 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Serious question - would you feel differently if the Flyers had won the Cup in 2010? That would make Pronger trade look genius.

 

We have the memory of an amazing playoff run - almost storybook - but with a bitter and painful ending. Does a Cup change that?

 

Michael Leighton would have god like status in Philly like Nick Foles does now.  Let that sink in for a minute...

[LegionOfDoom]

That was the dice roll that looked like it would of been Leighton to win it all, but his skate was his worst enemy.

I remember the commentators saying that Leighton made his team feel confident in net and be able to play more aggressively.

[jammer2]

4 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Michael Leighton would have god like status in Philly like Nick Foles does now.  Let that sink in for a minute...

 

So true. If Leights somehow pulls off a Game 7 victory in that ill fated Final, he would in fact, have a statue at the arena entrance and a beloved spot in Flyer lore forever. Kids would be named Leaky in his honour......LOL! Instead, the no move goal in Game 6 by Kane is sneered at forever. 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

So true. If Leights somehow pulls off a Game 7 victory in that ill fated Final, he would in fact, have a statue at the arena entrance and a beloved spot in Flyer lore forever. Kids would be named Leaky in his honour......LOL! Instead, the no move goal in Game 6 by Kane is sneered at forever. 

 

Let's start with winning game 6...before even talking about winning a game 7.

 

#babysteps

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

So true. If Leights somehow pulls off a Game 7 victory in that ill fated Final, he would in fact, have a statue at the arena entrance and a beloved spot in Flyer lore forever. Kids would be named Leaky in his honour......LOL! Instead, the no move goal in Game 6 by Kane is sneered at forever. 

 

We do have to give Leighton credit for doing something that hasn't been done since.

 

A goalie getting 3 shutouts in the same series.

 

Yet to be done again in 8 years and couting... 

 

#putthatbannerintherafters

 

[jammer2]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Let's start with winning game 6...before even talking about winning a game 7.

 

#babysteps

 

Well, you know, I meant" potential" game 7 type thing....

[OccamsRazor]

46 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

Well, you know, I meant" potential" game 7 type thing....

 

I know there are worse things that happened in the game I guess...what if Hartnell could hit an empty net....

 

...what if Carter could hit an empty net that could have changed the game...SMFH.

[jammer2]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I know there are worse things that happened in the game I guess...what if Hartnell could hit an empty net....

 

...what if Carter could hit an empty net that could have changed the game...SMFH.

 

I'll never forgive Carter for missing that WIDE OPEN GAPING NET!!!    

[ruxpin]

I was never going to like Michael Leighton.  I was annoyed beyond belief when they got him, and kept playing him,   He was an ECHL/AHL tweener playing well-over his head.  

 

Long-timers will remember I was skathing and unyeilding the entire ride, waiting for the clock to strike 12 and for Michael's Trans-Am to turn back into a pumpkin.  

 

He was not going to ever be the Flyers' version of Foles, for me.   If they'd snuck all the way to winning the Cup, he'd have been the pretender that was there while the team won.   Fair or not, that's how I viewed him at the time and since.   (And it's NOT entirely fair. He was brought in, asked to play over his head, and did for the most part. It's possible he was the poster child for my developing hatred of Holmgren and John Stevens).

 

I really don't remember that season fondly.  In fact, I hated that season and really didn't like the team, it's attitude and complacency in the regular season, or its captain.   The playoffs were a fun ride, sure.  Starting with winning a skills competition on the last day.  But if you put any other team logo on that exact same story, without an exception everyone in Flyers land would say it was the luckiest, least deserving team to ever win a cup.

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I was never going to like Michael Leighton. 

 

 

Yeah but that is only after they went through, Emery, Backlund, Boucher, Duchesne and even Carter Hutton who never got any game action.

 

Next was Ron Hextall out of retirement....

[ruxpin]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Yeah but that is only after they went through, Emery, Backlund, Boucher, Duchesne and even Carter Hutton who never got any game action.

 

Next was Ron Hextall out of retirement....

 

Oh yeah, I know.  That's quite accurate.  Even the knowledge of that at the time didn't stop my visceral dislike of acquisition.   I just felt like they should have had tryouts or a job fair or something.

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Even the knowledge of that at the time didn't stop my visceral dislike of acquisition

 

 

How did they get him i really can't remember....a trade??

[OccamsRazor]

@ruxpin

 

ok he was claimed off waivers.

 

Can't be mad with that to much.

 

I got pissed a few years back when the Canucks put Jacob Markstrom on waivers and the Flyers could have plucked him to compete in goal when they had Mason, Emery and Rob Zepp....he could have been a solid backup behind Mason and who knows what would have happened after he faltered...at least they might not have duct tape boy Neuvy...