OccamsRazor Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, King Knut said: I was thinking about Sam... but like both Neuvy and Elliott, why not give them their 14 days in LV first? Sure but they have to be on the roster first. You have to count towards the 23 first to be assigned to LV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Thank God Jiri Lethargic is gone. Just one more stiff to go . Lets hope this is McDonalds last season in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Excellent! More slum clearance for this roster!! 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: One more thing before heading out sure nothing earth shattering but i have really really like Fletcher's move so far. No more Weal, Weise and now Lehtera??? Man he might need to run for office!!!! The slum clearance of the roster is making a huge difference! I was a big opponent of the Hexy firing but I may be slowly (and reluctantly) starting to come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, Poulin20 said: Excellent! More slum clearance for this roster!! The slum clearance of the roster is making a huge difference! I was a big opponent of the Hexy firing but I may be slowly (and reluctantly) starting to come around. Again, these were coaching issues. Hextall could have removed these guys, or he could have just removed the moron who kept playing them bigger minutes. In essence, moving these guys right now by itslef does nothing for the overall product on the ice because Gordon simply wasn't playing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Poulin20 said: Excellent! More slum clearance for this roster!! The slum clearance of the roster is making a huge difference! I was a big opponent of the Hexy firing but I may be slowly (and reluctantly) starting to come around. Well, I mean Fletch really hasn't done anything yet besides drop dead weight. I'm waiting to see what he actually does with the team and trades before I start coming around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Digityman said: Well, I mean Fletch really hasn't done anything yet besides drop dead weight. Sure but you have to start somewhere. Ron should have taken these steps. By not and continuing to keep those guys on the roster it is a slap in the face of the fans who pay hard earned money to see some good hockey....guys like myself who dropped over $100 for the season on Gamecenter and especially the folks like @Poulin20 who buys the season tickets and spend the money and time to go to and from games. We all deserve to see a better team put together on the ice for the coach to work with. And Ron failed in a lot of that. It's why he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 19 minutes ago, King Knut said: Again, these were coaching issues. Hextall could have removed these guys, or he could have just removed the moron who kept playing them bigger minutes. In essence, moving these guys right now by itslef does nothing for the overall product on the ice because Gordon simply wasn't playing them. Yes but as you mentioned Hexy could have removed these guys as they weren’t producing. In fact they were hurting the team. Step 1 should have been removing these guys and if the young guys couldn’t win under Hak, step 2 was firing his butt out of town. If he does that he is still here IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Fletcher is draining the swamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: Ron should have taken these steps. I don't agree. Those guys were all here for specific reasons. That they were not living up to expectations or hopes isn't on the GM. They were all on the team for specific reasons that if we're not thankful for, we're not thinking. The possible exception is Weise, but again, for the money he makes and the record he had, he should have been better. The fact that they were being misused and unable to produce and Hakstol continued to give them big minutes every night... that's on the coach. To me, when combined with a million other issues I saw (and many many many others saw) there was ample reason to fire Hakstol. Waiving or (trading for nothing) three contract players does not fix the problem. Changing the coach does. That SHOULD have been the reason Hextall was fired. If he was fired for not waiving these guys, then that's an incredibly dumb reason to fire a GM. 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: By not and continuing to keep those guys on the roster it is a slap in the face of the fans who pay hard earned money to see some good hockey....guys like myself who dropped over $100 for the season on Gamecenter and especially the folks like @Poulin20 who buys the season tickets and spend the money and time to go to and from games. It's not though. The fact that they were on the ice for more than 5 minutes a night... THAT's the slap in the face. The fact that the coach was so painfully out of his league and no one did anything about it, THAT's the slap in the fact. The fact that 3 guys who at some point had actually done things to earn their NHL contracts, but were not doing so anymore were on the roster? If you're upset about that, you're not thinking it through. Not many GMs in this league would have waived them. BUT VERY FEW COACHES would have played them as much and as in as many key situations as Hakstol did. 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: We all deserve to see a better team put together on the ice for the coach to work with. And Ron failed in a lot of that. This isn't EA sports. There is a salary cap and there are existing contracts and there is competition. When Frost and Farabee are here, you'll be glad that Hextall made us endure Lehtera on the roster... but you'll never forgive Hakstol for playing them so much. The fact that we're not still having to play VLC every night or paying off his buyout against the cap? That should make you thrilled Weal was on the team and yes I know he was resigned, but Weal actually earned that contract. 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: It's why he is gone. I sincerely hope that's not true because it suggests to me that Homer and Scott are just as dumb and crazy as I fear they may be. Hextall is gone for not firing Hakstol. Whether Homer and Scott know it, I think Fletcher now knows it. It wouldn't be important, but the fact of the matter is if Homer and Scott don't know it yet, we are all in for a very very dangerous and scary ride that could end up in the utterly fruitless and feckless cap hell situation of 2013 all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 hours ago, RonJeremy said: Fletcher is draining the swamp. It was a self-draining swamp already set to empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, King Knut said: That they were not living up to expectations or hopes isn't on the GM. It's exactly who it's on. No one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Poulin20 said: Yes but as you mentioned Hexy could have removed these guys as they weren’t producing. In fact they were hurting the team. Step 1 should have been removing these guys and if the young guys couldn’t win under Hak, step 2 was firing his butt out of town. If he does that he is still here IMHO. A) Weise and Weal in particular were not actually hurting the team. Not this year anyway. I demonstrated elsewhere that they both performed rather better than Varone and Vorobyev. They absolutely weren’t helping it, but in terms of numbers, they were actually better. B) why would you remove the guys that actually performed better? C) The problem is that under Hakstol, they were getting more minutes and in more key situations than guys like Lindblom. That’s part of what cost the team. It was (as I’ve been saying for months) utilization, not talent. D) Firing Hakstol should have happened two years ago. There was no need to see how the young guys did instead of the old guys. They had a camp, Jodi and Dale and Jordan straight up made the team and they actually weren’t terrible this year. So did Misha, only he wasn’t as good and couldn’t stick. Not looking like he will this time either. E) If anyone had been obliterating competition and making it obvious they should be in the NHL, i’d Agree with you, but they were not. Maybe Varone, but then he didn’t work out in The NHL either when they tried. As it was, the larger problem was not that mediocre to low end NHL players were on an NHL team. There are low end players on every NHL team. The problem with OURS was that they were being used like good players. Which they were decidedly not. F) if you notice the TOI now, you’ll see that the low end flyers are getting low end minutes... and it’s helping them win. We marveled for years as to Hakstol’s usage of low prices nd guys in key situations. Again, all these guys Fletcher got rid of were here for reasons and rarely because they were the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, King Knut said: I don't agree. Those guys were all here for specific reasons. That they were not living up to expectations or hopes isn't on the GM. Yes, it is. It's an issue of poor evaluation by the GM and staff with respect to Weal and Weise. I'm willing to go a little easy with Lehtera, because I suspect Hextall was forced to take him in the Schenn deal. That said, it was a failure of the coach, and possibly the GM, to utilize the guy as much as he was. 1 hour ago, King Knut said: Not many GMs in this league would have waived them. Not sure very many of them would have signed them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: It's exactly who it's on. No one else. That’s an circuitous and academic argument. I agree with with you in that Hextall should have seen that Hakstol was the problem. In that sense, their underperformance is indirectly on him. But assuming a GM should waive underperforming players under contract that a coach is misusing is a little radical. In my opinion Hextall didn’t waive them because he didn’t care. They were already gone as far as he was concerned because his head was firmly planted in the next few seasons. He didn’t sign Weise thinking he’d be a difference maker, he signed him because he needed warm bodies as place holders for a few years. His sin was not seeing that both they and the entire team would have been doing much much better under a smarter, more experienced coach. Thats an egregious enough sin, but it’s important to register that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 minute ago, vis said: Yes, it is. It's an issue of poor evaluation by the GM and staff with respect to Weal and Weise. I'm willing to go a little easy with Lehtera, because I suspect Hextall was forced to take him in the Schenn deal. That said, it was a failure of the coach, and possibly the GM, to utilize the guy as much as he was. Not sure very many of them would have signed them in the first place. This 20/20 hindsight of yours is a little blinded by the fog of memory. Remember at at the time of the Weal and Weise signings, there weren’t necessarily guys like Konecny, Patrick, Lindblom, Vorobyev, Vecchione, or Varone in the organization to even hope might work out. What there was, was a crappy bottom six and almost zero cap space. As as far as the contracts themselves go, Weise straight up got market value. We all act like he makes $4 million or something. If he’d Have played like he did in Montreal, none of us would care to this day. Sure... We’d all have loved Grabner, but 30 other teams didn’t sign him either and the rangers didn’t even know what they were getting with him and then didn’t bother resigning him either. Weal was was excellent in the AHL and there was a lot of complaining that he wasn’t with the Flyers (mostly for roster reasons) sooner. The spring he was brought up before his contract, he was VERY good. He clearly earned his contract. There was no debate at the time. At the time, the alternatives to both of the above would have been other UFA rejects scrubs. Remember, Weal originally came here in exchange for LA taking VLC and Luke Schenn off our hands. THAT was draining the swamp to the tune of $9million. Lehtera was the price for Frosty and Farabee and we only paid it because St. Louis couldn’t make that deal happen unless we took him. At at the end of the day, if a GM has to waive an NHL player (even a low end 4th liner) just to prevent his coach from misusing that player, that GM should understand that his coach is the larger problem than how bad his 4th liners are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, King Knut said: That’s an circuitous and academic argument. No it's just a short way of saying i don't agree....at all....yeah Hak sucked sure but it was all on Hextall for obtaining those garbage players. And no one even wants them on waivers....it's why they are all stuck with them. Hell just look at the career AHLer Weal. He has played in 10 games he has one measly assist and is -2. Garbage. Hell Varone has basically replaced him and has 2 goals and an assist....and he is just an AHLer. So yeah i don't agree at all. Ron Hextall signed/traded for those players. The plus with Lehtera is at least they have Frost and Farabee to show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 From Bill Meltzer: makes sense.... Bill, could this move clear a roster spot on the Flyers for Morin to be reactivated, so he can be sent on a conditioning assignment to the Phantoms? - dag12 They won't need a space until he is reactivated to NHL roster. If he does a two-week conditioning assignment to the AHL that starts on Feb. 12, the NHL rosters will have expanded post-trade deadline and it also not expend one of the callups the Flyers are allotted b/c he has been on NHL roster (albeit IR) all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 15 hours ago, King Knut said: This 20/20 hindsight of yours is a little blinded by the fog of memory. No. It's not. Not even going to bother to respond beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 15 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: He has played in 10 games he has one measly assist and is -2. Garbage. Jordan Weal actually put up 1 more goal and 3 times the points (more than twice the Points per game) in 5 more games for the flyers this year than Varone. He has the contract he does from Hextall because he put up 8 goals in 23 games for the Flyers in 2017, which besides being a 28 goal pace for the season, was good for 9th on the team despite it being in 23 games. This was at a time before Patrick or Lindblom Vorobyeb, Vecchione or Rubstov. They needed players and still had no cap room, and he did quite well, so they signed him. He was UFA. It was a good contract. Also, if you recall, he was only ever here as a throw in for VLC and Schenn. You still want to be paying VLC right now instead? I don't have time to try to reason with you. Rest assured, your perspective is not clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, vis said: No. It's not. Not even going to bother to respond beyond that. Well that's very constructive. Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, King Knut said: Jordan Weal actually put up 1 more goal and 3 times the points (more than twice the Points per game) in 5 more games for the flyers this year than Varone. Sure he should have playing on the 2nd and 3rd lines....still glad he is gone...he is an AHLer no more...Varone to. 1 hour ago, King Knut said: He has the contract he does from Hextall because he put up 8 goals in 23 games for the Flyers in 2017, which besides being a 28 goal pace for the season, was good for 9th on the team despite it being in 23 games. Yep got paid and ain't did squat since....it's why he is in Arizona now. Good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just to keep in mind... I think Corban Knight will be joining them soon once healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 It would be nice if Elliott or Neuvy could get healthy and maybe they could trade one of them to Vancouver who is in need of someone to backup Markstrom...worst case if they didn't want to trade for them they could pick them up on waivers or work something out salary wise to facilitate a trade of some sorts. Thatcher Demko is going to out a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: Just to keep in mind... I think Corban Knight will be joining them soon once healthy. Hopefully the rehab stints for Elliott, Neuvy, Knight and Morin are exempt. Morin I think is clear even rehab is. It exempt. Certainly Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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