Game 64: Flyers at Blue Jackets, 2/28/2019 @ 7:00 pm

[OccamsRazor]

I think it's time to put Coots back on the top line.

 

28 Claude Giroux - 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny
23 Oskar Lindblom - 19 Nolan Patrick - 93 Jakub Voracek
25 James van Riemsdyk - 21 Scott Laughton - 38 Ryan Hartman 
12 Michael Raffl - 44 Phil Varone - 10 Corban Knight

 

[OccamsRazor]

So why the f**k did Jake just stop skating with Panarin he was right with him and just let him go...why Jake why?

 

Losers got a loser point a lot of good it does them.

 

 

 

And they gave him an A on his chest.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

And then no call on the hit to Patrick's head after the puck was long gone...

 

 

 

[Howie58]

Well, we had a lead and skated well.  But...a point and not two.  Nationwide is clearly on the Jackets' side.  12-0-2 for Jackets in last 14 visits. Yikes.  

[mojo1917]

Though to swallow this one.  That first CBJ goal was utter bullpucky. Then one and a half Elliott would like to have back.  The Harrington goal was a dang it moment.  

Couple of chances to win it in OT but couldn't really get the shots off.  

The last 2 games vs CBJ could have gone either way, too bad there's zero margin for tough beats like tonight's

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Flyers are lucky to get a point out of the game.  They were outplayed for most of the game.

 

Myers looks good out there.

[OccamsRazor]

8 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Couple of chances to win it in OT but couldn't really get the shots off.  

 

Yeah they had possession of the puck from what seemed like 95% of the OT session and yet lose it the last minute of the game.

 

I think they win this with Hart in net.

 

This is the Elliott we've come to know.

 

It wasn't all his fault but there are two goals he needs to make. Do that and they walk out of there with 2 points.

 

This one stings. I feel they have squandered their chance...the only thing that can save them is another ten game win streak and for the teams in front of them to struggle and start losing.

 

Can't see all that happening.

 

It is what it is.

[brelic]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

There is no deny that.

 

But what is also no denying when I look at this roster and farm system then glance at the 10 draft picks in the upcoming draft.

 

Since I have been following the Flyers early 90s have I ever seen anything better. From the net out. From the forwards to the defensemen.

 

There is sick depth everywhere.

 

So all he has to do is give it a minor tweak and that is all it needs and just time to gel and play and gain the experience needed.

 

They do that it won't be long till they are one of the top teams in the league.

 

I feel good about where they sit and what they have to look forward too.

 

I feel the same about this team. There is lots to get excited for as our prospects are now filtering in on a yearly basis, and we're going to have competition for spots... which is a great thing. 

 

The thing I still wonder is where our elite player will come from?

 

Giroux still has a few more elite years in him, and Couturier seems to be a PPG player now.

 

But who's going to rise to the top? Who's gonna be our Kucherov or Kane?

 

[elmatus]

16 minutes ago, brelic said:

The thing I still wonder is where our elite player will come from?

 

 

Yep -- this is it exactly for me as well. Sure, some of the kids we have coming in will likely be pretty good. Certainly some of them should be top nine regulars, and if we're lucky there could be a couple top six players in there too. But it's very unlikely all of them will become that. It's even less likely they will become an elite force at the NHL level. It happens of course -- and there are several such players in the league right now (Giroux is one!) -- but the likelihood of that is not great.

 

Our best bet I guess would be someone like Patrick, but he really needs to show much more than he has so far. And as you say, Giroux does still have some gas for a little bit. Couts is doing his best to prove his success over the last year or so is not just an anomaly. Is that enough? It could be, but that means these kids need to start picking up the slack pronto. Giroux won't remain elite forever.

 

So I don't know. There is a lot up in the air... but these same things have been up in the air for almost a decade, and the situation hasn't improved. I think the Hexy plan was clearly to build around Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couts, Ghost, and now JVR. That's six players, which is more than enough to make a decent team. Problem is those six have not managed to live up to expectations. They've been good to great individually, but the team has not benefited from their presence in the way other true contending teams have benefited from their core players.

 

What now? I don't know. Fletch will have to assemble his own core group I suppose. Some of the vets mentioned above will likely feature in that, but keeping them all (minus Simmonds) would seem like an exercise in folly to me. Why would that be any fundamentally different?

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Yep -- this is it exactly for me as well. Sure, some of the kids we have coming in will likely be pretty good. Certainly some of them should be top nine regulars, and if we're lucky there could be a couple top six players in there too. But it's very unlikely all of them will become that. It's even less likely they will become an elite force at the NHL level. It happens of course -- and there are several such players in the league right now (Giroux is one!) -- but the likelihood of that is not great.

 

Our best bet I guess would be someone like Patrick, but he really needs to show much more than he has so far. And as you say, Giroux does still have some gas for a little bit. Couts is doing his best to prove his success over the last year or so is not just an anomaly. Is that enough? It could be, but that means these kids need to start picking up the slack pronto. Giroux won't remain elite forever.

 

The good news is I think we have that issue solved in goal and on the blueline. We have Hart who seems like he can be a top level goalie, and we have a stacked blueline that all have high individual potential as well as forming a pretty frightening core.

 

So... it's just up front where we really need to find that elite player. Patrick could be it, but I'm not convinced yet. I see him as a 70-80 point guy, but a more meat and potatoes guys like Couturier. 

 

We could get lucky and really hit on a gem. Kucherov is a 2nd rounder, Point is a 3rd rounder. It happens. 

 

Appleyard posted an article today and thinks Farabee can be that guy to be a star for the Flyers.

 

 

 

Anyone have a subscription to the Athletic?

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

So I don't know. There is a lot up in the air... but these same things have been up in the air for almost a decade, and the situation hasn't improved. I think the Hexy plan was clearly to build around Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couts, Ghost, and now JVR. That's six players, which is more than enough to make a decent team. Problem is those six have not managed to live up to expectations. They've been good to great individually, but the team has not benefited from their presence in the way other true contending teams have benefited from their core players.

 

What now? I don't know. Fletch will have to assemble his own core group I suppose. Some of the vets mentioned above will likely feature in that, but keeping them all (minus Simmonds) would seem like an exercise in folly to me. Why would that be any fundamentally different?

 

This is a critical offseason. Tons of cap space, a few high profile UFAs available, and the potential for one or two major trades to reshape the roster.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I feel the same about this team. There is lots to get excited for as our prospects are now filtering in on a yearly basis, and we're going to have competition for spots... which is a great thing. 

 

The thing I still wonder is where our elite player will come from?

 

Giroux still has a few more elite years in him, and Couturier seems to be a PPG player now.

 

But who's going to rise to the top? Who's gonna be our Kucherov or Kane?

 

 

And when I say this I'm not saying next year I'm not going to put a time table on it.

 

I mean it took the Caps 13 years to win it with Ovenchicken, Backstrom, Carlson and Holtby.

 

Look how long Stamkos and his core group have been together and how many times they have come close but only to be the bride's maids.

 

So we will have to remain patient.

 

As far as their Super stars.

 

I think in 2-3 years Patrick will be there.

 

And I know it's early still but from right now I can see Frost and Farabee being the stars.

 

Frost more the playmaker and Farabee the sniper goal scorer they need.

 

As far as offensive stars I can see it being Sanheim and Myers bringing the firepower from the backend.

 

Ghost I'm not sure how long they keep him around if he can't regain his offensive touch again. 

 

But right now most of it is just potential.

 

I think Rubtsov has some good skill. His biggest issue is can stay healthy.

 

And NAK it seems he is becoming this years version of Leier. Not sure what becomes of him anymore.

 

I think Ratcliffe eventually makes JVR expendable.

[elmatus]

33 minutes ago, brelic said:

The good news is I think we have that issue solved in goal and on the blueline. We have Hart who seems like he can be a top level goalie, and we have a stacked blueline that all have high individual potential as well as forming a pretty frightening core.

 

Hart is definitely in so far so good territory, but I need to see more than one winning streak before I chalk him up to be an elite level goalie. Still, I do think he's on the right track and moving in that direction. That and having a true high caliber goalie is something largely alien to this fan base, so I'm all in on Hart right now.

 

The blueline has potential of course, but this year needs to be erased if that's the case. Provo especially really needs to find his wings again. I'm not saying he can't, only that he must. We also need to figure out if Ghost is worth having around if players like Sanheim and Myers continue to grow. That's a good problem to have though.

 

Can they develop into a contender-style dcorps? I hope so... recent history is not at all on their side, but they are still young. Next year will be a big year for Provo and Sanheim in this regard. They can't be let off the hook forever.

 

38 minutes ago, brelic said:

We could get lucky and really hit on a gem. Kucherov is a 2nd rounder, Point is a 3rd rounder. It happens. 

 

Getting a miracle pick outside the first round is harder than winning the draft lottery. Sure, it would be nice, but banking on something like that is the definition of poor planning. I want to see a plan in action from Fletch -- not a bunch wishful thinking.

 

40 minutes ago, brelic said:

This is a critical offseason. Tons of cap space, a few high profile UFAs available, and the potential for one or two major trades to reshape the roster.

 

I agree completely. This is a huge off season. Fletch is left with the daunting situation of being the newest head of a franchise that has failed to live up to expectations now for a number of years. Hopefully he can make something out of it.

[King Knut]

Well, Ryan Hartman picked a bad night to poop the bed.  

 

Could have ave been a huge hero a few times. At least the Jackets didn’t score on the PK he caused.  

 

Hopefully things can even out for him.  

[mojo1917]

I understand managing expectations. 

I'm bullish on where this team is headed though.

Even if Hart isn't actually Jesus, there's a couple of other guys in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe who are playing lights out in net, so for the first time since Pelle Lindberg I think the Flyers situation in goal is about to be good. 

Even the young guys on the team now that everyone seems to be "down" on because they aren't Crosby or McDavid are ++ players. 

 

For instance, I think Patrick has actually been okay, even when he's struggled. I see a kid that knows where he needs to go, sees opportunities to make plays, he's just not making them consistently enough to be ZOMG!

If he continues to improve and has good health, by year 3 look the **** out, he's got some punk in him and he's got great hands and size, he wants the puck on his stick, he's smart. There is a lot of there, there.

There are lots of players that shine bright early and then plateau and in some cases they regress...I don't see that with 19. 

 

There are burners in the pipeline, Myers, Provorov, Sanhiem all skate really really well. 

Plus Dave Hakstol and his lowest common denominator style of play is gone.

This year has been a cluster with the goalies and the corporate meddling, I can't help but think the future is bright. 

 

CBJ is stacked right now and that game was back and forth with long stretches of our young guys being better than their guys.

I know the middle 20-25  was not a high point of play for the season but CBJ is good and to expect them to not push back would be silly. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

46 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I agree completely. This is a huge off season. Fletch is left with the daunting situation of being the newest head of a franchise that has failed to live up to expectations now for a number of years. Hopefully he can make something out of it.

 

Yes this offseason will be huge in letting us know where he is at as far being the right GM for the job.

 

My one biggest critique of his job so far wasn't  so much the Simmonds trade like some have mentioned already.

 

Mine issue is (and before I say this I'm not saying did or didn't try) was I am looking at over 8 million in capspace left in the season to work with which is very nice but you can't roll it over or use it to resign some guys. You basically are just going to lose it.

 

So I find it hard to think he could found a winger or center or anyone else out there on a team was just wanting to move?

 

Sure that would be the time to roll the dice on a guy to see if he could help just say take on a not so great contract for one year to utilize the cap space since you're going to lose it.

 

Anyways like I said and maybe there weren't anyone wanting to move someone like that.

 

As I said that was my one big issue.

 

It would be nice if it was like the NFL where any unused capspace could be rolled over to next year and used.

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

But who's going to rise to the top? Who's gonna be our Kucherov or Kane?

 

 

They don’t need one of those. 

But Frost and Farabee are both still looking like they’re in the running for next-gen team stars.  

 

I don’t know if Allison comes back or not, but I’d always had hope he’d have a finisher potential.  Strohme and Radcliffe are likely third liners of the future at best I suppose.  

 

Coots has has turned into the player I always saw him turning into (you can go back and waste your time,m checking but I had been mocked for several years while saying Thisnine going to burst out of him soon) and I’m thrilled.  

 

I think Patty’s got similar offensive potential but with a little more style and grace.  But it could likely take him another year or two to get to that 70-80 point range.

 

Similarly,  I think TK has that potential, but Gordon has yet to unlock it. If it’s Q next year, will h have the Teeks Touch?

 

but long and short, they don’t need Kane or Kooch.  I’d rather have Provo, Sanheim, Myers, Ghost and Morin than Kane. 

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Anyways like I said and maybe there weren't anyone wanting to move someone like that.

 

I'm sure we could have had Lucic as a throw in to the Stolarz deal.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure spending an ADDITIONAL $8M in cap space is really all that typical in-season. And if you do, it's gonna be a garbage player on a garbage contract.

 

If he doesn't spend it this summer (while leaving room for RFA signings), then it can become a legitimate gripe, especially since his bosses basically said publicly that he would.

 

[King Knut]

10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

 

For instance, I think Patrick has actually been okay, even when he's struggled. I see a kid that knows where he needs to go, sees opportunities to make plays, he's just not making them consistently enough to be ZOMG!

If he continues to improve and has good health, by year 3 look the **** out, he's got some punk in him and he's got great hands and size, he wants the puck on his stick, he's smart. There is a lot of there, there.

There are lots of players that shine bright early and then plateau and in some cases they regress...I don't see that with 19. 

 

There are burners in the pipeline, Myers, Provorov, Sanhiem all skate really really well. 

Plus Dave Hakstol and his lowest common denominator style of play is gone.

This year has been a cluster with the goalies and the corporate meddling, I can't help but think the future is bright. 

 

CBJ is stacked right now and that game was back and forth with long stretches of our young guys being better than their guys.

I know the middle 20-25  was not a high point of play for the season but CBJ is good and to expect them to not push back would be silly. 

 

 

 

I like everything you said above. 

 

Especially on Patrick. I see a kid getting ready to break out too.  I mentioned it above, but in some ways he reminds me of Coots.  Not in his style of play at all, but mostly that he’s not necessarily faster than everyone so he can’t dictate the play around him, so it takes him a little longer to sort out how to make plays within the fray of play around him.  

 

He’s going to have a decent frame and and his stick and puck skills are ridiculous when he gets himself the time to use them.   The more he sorts out how to give himself the chances he needs, the more we’re going to be impressed with him. I too like his burgeoning mean streak. 

 

I think Hart is going to be fine.  It’s normal to regress and lose focus... especially when you play so many games in a row.  Goalie is hard man. It’s like being a catcher for 5 Mitch Williamses but at 115 mph with someone crashing the plate every other pitch. It’s too much and the Flyers have got to get smarter about their usage. 

 

The D is stacked. Remember the days of having maybe one D prospect that you kinda hope might work out? Now we’re literally looking at 7 wondering which one WON’T work out... at even that one is likely to get a good return in trade. It’s really something.  

 

It’s a game they could have had against a team that should be but isn’t all that better than them.  They lost focus and Elliott did not have his best night. They kinda got screwed in the first CB goal and Elliott’s delay of game penalty, and the first and second periods were kind of just messy hockey.  

 

Here’s to Better things. 

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I'm sure we could have had Lucic as a throw in to the Stolarz deal.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure spending an ADDITIONAL $8M in cap space is really all that typical in-season. And if you do, it's gonna be a garbage player on a garbage contract.

 

If he doesn't spend it this summer (while leaving room for RFA signings), then it can become a legitimate gripe, especially since his bosses basically said publicly that he would.

 

 

Is would have preferred Kassian if you are making me choose from that scrap heap.

[brelic]

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Is would have preferred Kassian if you are making me choose from that scrap heap.

 

The alternative way to add that much to your cap in season is trade and sign like Stone.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

24 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

The alternative way to add that much to your cap in season is trade and sign like Stone.

 

 

 

Sure would have been. However I would not wanted to give him the contract he got.

 

9 mill per for 8 years. No.

 

I would have been ok with a 8 mill over 5 and which yeah he wouldn't have wanted some just to rent him it would have been a good option without knowing what assets it would take to rent him.

 

And as was said they wanted more from a East coast team.

 

So yeah wouldn't have worked.

 

If I was going to commit to 9 mill plus it would only be to Panarin who also I ain't giving no 8 year deal to, which the mac could only be 7 to a new team.

 

I would go 9+ for 5 years.

 

And it will be take it or leave it.

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

9 mill per for 8 years. No.

 

 

I would expect Panarin to get that for sure. He may even be worth it, but it would make him the highest played player on our roster. Whether that's a problem, I don't know.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I would expect Panarin to get that for sure. He may even be worth it, but it would make him the highest played player on our roster. Whether that's a problem, I don't know.

 

I would give that to him but not 8 or even 7 years.

 

I would give him a 5 year deal that woul carry him till he is 33. 

 

I am scared of 6 or more.

[brelic]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would give that to him but not 8 or even 7 years.

 

I would give him a 5 year deal that woul carry him till he is 33. 

 

I am scared of 6 or more.

 

Then you wouldn't get Panarin with an offer like that. Plain and simple. 

 

If you're not willing to overpay and overcommit, someone else gladly will. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Then you wouldn't get Panarin with an offer like that. Plain and simple. 

 

If you're not willing to overpay and overcommit, someone else gladly will. 

 

That is fine on to plan B try and land Andrea's Johnson from the Leafs.