"Winning Culture" behind coach changes?

[CoachX]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwikzsDt0YrxAhVC6Z4KHS****QQxfQBMAV6BAgGEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fphillysportsnetwork.com%2F2021%2F06%2F08%2Fchuck-fletcher%2F&usg=AOvVaw0zmFpwLtQ8H0ED0s73fHzz

 

I was kinda confused reading this. My first reaction was it was more nonsense. I guess if your read between the lines, it suggests changes making this more Fletch/AV team, and a long term objective.

 

Its says Fletch wants a "winning culture" and Lappy was made LHV HC because he can, "mold a close-knit locker room within the system. That kind of camaraderie enabled the Flyers to one of their best seasons in the last decade in 2019-2020"

 

So Gordon is out after having an 18-7-1-6 record, after Lehigh Valley had their best season since 2017-2018. Lappy, who was just a part of one of the worst seasons in team history, and hasn't won anything as a coach, is the guy to bring in this winning culture? Doesn't make sense to me. But then it kind of suggests what I have speculated all along, that the locker room culture for the Flyers is damaged, and to fix it, they are starting the AHL level. Smart idea, but is Lappy the right guy? Maybe.

 

Then it says Nick Schultz as Lappy's replacement. Here we go again Wash, rinse, repeat! Another ex-Flyer brought in to fix what he couldn't as a player. The Flyer retread cycle continues.

 

The part I found most interesting, the article says Lappy is being sent there to instill the system AV uses, getting the young players more prepped to come up. I susupect we will hear a collective, "about time sigh of relief", from our forum faithfuls. Since this won't happen in the short term, I see the Flyers organization making a commitment many never thought they would (myself included). It says to me that Chuck and AV have a long term plan, and the backing to execute it

[OccamsRazor]

24 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I susupect we will hear a collective, "about time sigh of relief", from our forum faithfuls.

 

This has already been stated here.

 

I guess you missed it but most of us were shocked that they weren't already using one system for both clubs since the kids will be needed for call upd.

 

I guess stupid us thinking this was the norm within all organizations.

 

SMFH.

 

[CoachX]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I guess you missed it

This shouldn't surprise anyone 

[SCFlyguy]

That article is so stupid.

 

Quote

 

“I don’t think you can properly develop players unless you have a winning environment.”

Chuck Fletcher; 6/7/21

 

 

Ok, that makes a lot of sense.  So I assume we will be bringing in outside coaches with a winning pedigree instead of promoting former Flyers without coaching experience just because they played half a season at the end of their careers, right?

 

Quote

Fletcher said that yesterday, justifying the coaching shakeup with the Lehigh Valley Phantoms and the opening in Philadelphia. Ian Laperriere is the new head coach of the Phantoms. His role on the Flyers bench opens. An early candidate to fill in as an assistant coach with Alain Vigneault is a former defenseman, Nick Schultz. Finishing in Philadelphia, Schultz etched a fifteen-year NHL career.

 

What?

[tucson83]

51 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

 

 

 

 

The part I found most interesting, the article says Lappy is being sent there to instill the system AV uses, getting the young players more prepped to come up. I susupect we will hear a collective, "about time sigh of relief", from our forum faithfuls. Since this won't happen in the short term, I see the Flyers organization making a commitment many never thought they would (myself included). It says to me that Chuck and AV have a long term plan, and the backing to execute it

 

 

and that's what we need, we need players that buy in and want to win, if they have to take a few steps back for this team to be better so be it because this current team isnt getting it done and we have to make major changes otherwise we are going fall into the det and buffalo territory.

 

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Ok, that makes a lot of sense.  So I assume we will be bringing in outside coaches with a winning pedigree instead of promoting former Flyers without coaching experience just because they played half a season at the end of their careers, right?

[tucson83]

4 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

That article is so stupid.

 

 

Ok, that makes a lot of sense.  So I assume we will be bringing in outside coaches with a winning pedigree instead of promoting former Flyers without coaching experience just because they played half a season at the end of their careers, right?

 

 

What?

didnt berube win a cup with st.louis and he was great in the minor league system with st.louis? i think big name coaches mean nothing, it's about buying in the system, have players that fit the system and want to win.

[CoachX]

Disagree with the coach POV. A good coach with a track record for winning over a long period of time, is a huge deal. With the right group, any guy can catch lightning in a bottle (Doug Pedersen, Craig Berube).

 

 

[flyercanuck]

“I don’t think you can properly develop players unless you have a winning environment.”

Chuck Fletcher; 6/7/21

 

Does this mean we're getting a new GM?

[CoachX]

58 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

“I don’t think you can properly develop players unless you have a winning environment.”

Chuck Fletcher; 6/7/21

 

Does this mean we're getting a new GM?

This is what had me scratching my head. I didn't particularly like Gordon, but his record last season was good. He also has a winning record in six seasons overall. That doesn't suggest to me that a coaching change wasn't needed, just that he won more than he lost. Then you replace him with a guy who has no head coaching experience? I guess you could argue he doesn't having a losing record.

 

I'm not buying the "winning culture" argument per se. I still think has more to do with gutting the existing staff, and starting new with a clean slate, an objective, and the "YES" man to follow those orders. Who knows, maybe Lappy does a great job. I'm not against the idea, I just cringe when the continue to hire ex-flyers to key positions

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

If the Flyers want to replicate winning culture, I would strongly suggest that Schmuck and Nature Boy watch what Trotz and Lamoriello are doing in Long Island. That is a well coached club and each player knows their role.  Insane how things are coming together there. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[OccamsRazor]

40 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Insane how things are coming together there. 

 

Maybe the Flyers can snag Palmieri when the Isles are done with him this year?? That is a guy you make room for in the bottom 6....instead of a Thompson or Grant.

 

If they can move JVR out off the 3rd line then Kyle would slot there nicely....

 

...oh wait never mind we're not allowed to have anything but kids because in 4 years everyone will be old....or that is what i keep reading here...never mind fill it up with 20 year old's and in 8 years they will be ready.

 

[CoachX]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

.never mind fill it up with 20 year old's and in 8 years they will be ready.

Nope! they will be in decline, have contracts that are too long, and they will be too old

[tucson83]

11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

If the Flyers want to replicate winning culture, I would strongly suggest that Schmuck and Nature Boy watch what Trotz and Lamoriello are doing in Long Island. That is a well coached club and each player knows their role.  Insane how things are coming together there. 

im pretty sure they are and that's why im suggesting we have to get rid of the big contracts and focus on depth on this team. this team is not deep at all and we have to hope that hart turns it around as well.

[OccamsRazor]

48 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Nope! they will be in decline, have contracts that are too long, and they will be too old

 

Wash - Rinse - Repeat 

 

2 years away from being 2 years away!!!

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

48 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

im pretty sure they are and that's why im suggesting we have to get rid of the big contracts and focus on depth on this team. this team is not deep at all and we have to hope that hart turns it around as well.

Pretty sure New York has some big contracts on the roster as well. Fact is, they're an organization that has a plan, a coach who has a legitimate system and players that fit the roles defined within the system. Not only that, but said coach doesn't throw his young players under a bus when things go sidewards, which AV did numerous times this year.

[CoachX]

24 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

. Not only that, but said coach doesn't throw his young players under a bus when things go sidewards, which AV did numerous times this year

He did? I don't recall that

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Just now, CoachX said:

He did? I don't recall that

Look at Konecny. Look at Hart (who admittedly had a rough year). Look at Philippe Myers.  Look at Vigneault and his comments about special teams and how it was young guys who were at fault. Look at his comments about the debuts of Wade Allison and Cam York ("it was only one game" and he couldn't at least be excited for them making their debut). Those were just some of the targets.  Every coach knows that young players aren't in a linear curve in their development and sometimes they take a step back.  He intentionally went out of his way to embarrass these guys. I had high hopes for Vigneault when he came here because I believed he was going to open things up a bit and be different from his predecessor.  Then when the playoffs rolled around, he changed the system completely and everything went off the rails. Once things went off the rails this year, he had no clue how to stop it and that's when he began to throw players under a bus. I still don't understand why he would fundamentally change his system going into the playoffs when they were on a roll, either. AV has actively tried to sabotage the team. I don't get it. 

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Look at Konecny. Look at Hart (who admittedly had a rough year). Look at Philippe Myers.  Look at Vigneault and his comments about special teams and how it was young guys who were at fault. Look at his comments about the debuts of Wade Allison and Cam York ("it was only one game" and he couldn't at least be excited for them making their debut). Those were just some of the targets.  Every coach knows that young players aren't in a linear curve in their development and sometimes they take a step back.  He intentionally went out of his way to embarrass these guys. I had high hopes for Vigneault when he came here because I believed he was going to open things up a bit and be different from his predecessor.  Then when the playoffs rolled around, he changed the system completely and everything went off the rails. Once things went off the rails this year, he had no clue how to stop it and that's when he began to throw players under a bus. I still don't understand why he would fundamentally change his system going into the playoffs when they were on a roll, either. AV has actively tried to sabotage the team. I don't get it. 

 

 I know there's a leadership issue with the Flyers...and I've never been a Vigneault fan and but I haven't seen an entire Flyer team almost to a man quit on a coach since the Barber fiasco.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 I know there's a leadership issue with the Flyers...and I've never been a Vigneault fan and but I haven't seen an entire Flyer team almost to a man quit on a coach since the Barber fiasco.

Ken Hitchcock at the end. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter lead the revolt there and without Keith Primeau around to stop them,  there was nothing Forsberg or Gagne could do. 

[flyercanuck]

Just now, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Ken Hitchcock at the end. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter lead the revolt there and without Keith Primeau around to stop them,  there was nothing Forsberg or Gagne could do. 

 

I think that team was more split in half. This was an entire mutiny.

[CoachX]

8 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Look at Konecny. Look at Hart (who admittedly had a rough year). Look at Philippe Myers.  Look at Vigneault and his comments about special teams and how it was young guys who were at fault. Look at his comments about the debuts of Wade Allison and Cam York ("it was only one game" and he couldn't at least be excited for them making their debut). Those were just some of the targets.  Every coach knows that young players aren't in a linear curve in their development and sometimes they take a step back.  He intentionally went out of his way to embarrass these guys. I had high hopes for Vigneault when he came here because I believed he was going to open things up a bit and be different from his predecessor.  Then when the playoffs rolled around, he changed the system completely and everything went off the rails. Once things went off the rails this year, he had no clue how to stop it and that's when he began to throw players under a bus. I still don't understand why he would fundamentally change his system going into the playoffs when they were on a roll, either. AV has actively tried to sabotage the team. I don't get it. 

Sorry. I don't agree with any of this

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

Sorry. I don't agree with any of this

That's fine. Not the first time and probably won't be the last either

[tucson83]

3 hours ago, CoachX said:

Sorry. I don't agree with any of this

 

what he's referring to is  that one comment that he said that hart needs to work harder like how is that throwing him under the bus? he was struggling, anyone with a brain knows he wasnt playing right, he was doing things you dont see him do last year, i know the d was bad but there was stoppable pucks that were just going thru him, he wasnt right this year and he was battling injuries last year and it's probably affecting his reflexes.  goalie injuries are never a good sign for a young goalie

Edited June 10, 2021 by tucson83

[CoachX]

I kinda guessed. Then he said AV made comments about York and Allison that, quite frankly, if accurate, I don't see as negative. I mean, what's a coach supposed to say, "Allison will be on the first line anchoring our PP next season?", "York is a future Norris candidate?" If so, then there our members of our forum that are just as qualified to be head coach, as AV is.

 

The coach is not the problem. Two decades of the same 'ol crap is indicative of that. Hell, even the comments given on this topic cite examples of players "quitting" on coaches. No, the Flyers have sent a message that the coach is staying. So like him or not, calling for his resignation is like pissing in a fan.