if kronwall hit was clean....

[terp]

@terp

Your points are valid- doesn't mean it doesn't still irk me. Look at the stuff Kunitz pulled tonight (another borderline player). And then to boot, the NBC announcers had the audacity to say that Cooke should be a candidate for the Masterson trophy (because he cleaned up his act).

I would have thought Kunitz would have been tossed for that. It makes the game look bad when guys are rooting around on the ice like that for so long. I don't think NHL brass is above sliding the Pens a few breaks but I don't think they like to be embarrassed and that behavior plays to the notion that hockey is like pro wrestling.

[Vanflyer]

@terp

Again agree and to boot, it was a national telecast.

OT, but since you brought up "wrassling", I watched the Wrestler the other day with Mickey Rourke and Marissa Tome'. What a hallowing movie in how it shows the life of a wrestler.

[terp]

@terp

Again agree and to boot, it was a national telecast.

OT, but since you brought up "wrassling", I watched the Wrestler the other day with Mickey Rourke and Marissa Tome'. What a hallowing movie in how it shows the life of a wrestler.

Great film, especially the part where Marisa Tomei dances topless. Worth seeing for that reason alone. That was my emotional high point though and I left the theater petty down. Rourke does down and out better than anyone.

[Vanflyer]

@terp-

Yeah, not a movie to watch around the holidays, or if you live in Portland, Seattle or Vancouver and its the winter time.

The topless scenes were pretty hot. If you haven't seen "Before the Devil Knows Your Dead", she smoking in that. Hoffman is one lucky mofo! (though that is another downer movie).

[doom88]

Kunitz should have been tossed after he re-engaged after separation, or after he was grinding Hartnell's face into the ice. Dare I say a match penalty at that point?

[sarsippius]

Kunitz should have been tossed after he re-engaged after separation, or after he was grinding Hartnell's face into the ice. Dare I say a match penalty at that point?

I really don't know how that wasn't at least a 10 min misconduct. Sometimes I think we b*tch too much about the Pens being Bettman's team, but JFC some of the dirty cheap crap they get away with.... How sweet that Scott got the game winner.

[Vanflyer]

@sarsippius

I would like to think that on a nationally televised game, thats going to get reviewed. I am borderline on the suspension, but I definitely think he should have got a double minor or 5 minute major and 10 minute misconduct.

[sarsippius]

@Vanflyer

Probably not suspension-worthy, but agreed the in-game penalty didn't fit the crime

[mojo1917]

kind of lost a little respect for Dan Blysma after reading his quote about the flyers targeting guys after the whistle... i mean it's not like his guys ever do that. he's got 2 or 3 of the worst guys in the league with cooke, kunitz and malkin on his roster and they're all in the running for the lady byng...

i wonder if he says that if the game went to a shootout and they get the extra point plus it was his team that jumped hartnell in the 3rd, neal, kunitz i think i saw the breck girl letang in that scuffle... getting driven out by G no less... man i love it when that team loses... made even better when they get beat.

[Phillygrump]

@mojo1917

The team is just like their fans. They cry when they lose. I can't believe a team like that would have the audacity to EVER complain about the referees. Especially for the points you mentioned and for the fact that they were handed a cup by the NHL. I have absolutely ZERO respect for that team.

[fan4ever]

@mojo1917

breck girl - loved it

[B21]

they said he was the penguin's beat staff's canidate for the masterson. each team's aligned journalists nominate a guy, then all the writers vote on them from there. apparently, the flyers' guys are going with jagr...and to be honest, matt cooke taking all of 30 PIMs this season strikes me as more deserving than a guy whose only real accomplishment has been to continue to play well. not that cooke should get it either.

anyway, they weren't saying he was their choice, only that he was the pengiuns' writers' choice.

Thank God for you. I think that was a nice gesture by the Pittsburgh writers as a way to recognize that the guy really cleaned up his act...nothing more. I wanted to wait a year before giving him credit and we are just about there. All that being said, there is not a snowball's chance in h--- Cooke wins the Masterson. Or the Lady Byng.

[mojo1917]

@fan4ever

gotta give the guy his due, that mane is impressive.

@B21

cooke is having a nice year, its good to see him playing hockey and not hurting guys intentionally

[B21]

Kunitz should have been tossed after he re-engaged after separation, or after he was grinding Hartnell's face into the ice. Dare I say a match penalty at that point?

Really? A match for that? They never even "fought"...pushing and shoving then separation then more pushing and shoving. Maybe if he landed a few punches but not for a face wash on the ice. I've seen a lot worse go unpunished.

Frankly...Hartnell deserved it. Martin gave Hartnell a quick poke as he skated by...something that happens many times in a game and never gets called. Hartnell turns and two-hands Martin almost baseball style. If Kunitz has to go for the face rub in the ice, so does Hartnell for that swing. That was alot worse than just your 2:00 slash. Hartnell also got away with a high stick on Adams at the end of the first and he was conveniently careless with his stick all game even after the play was over. By the time he went Pujols on Paul Martin the Pens had apparently had enough and Kunitz took it out on him and I am glad he did. He (Kunitz) deserved another 2:00 on top the roughing...make it a second roughing for all I care. But if the players are to police themselves, that's how it's going to be done. They also missed another slash on Malkin in OT so like I have been preaching forever...it all evens out - i.e. - I can't see some of you guys getting "that" worked up about more minutes for Kunitz when the Pens should have had a PP in OT. The slash on Malkin was that obvious.

Not for nothing, I don't see anyone complaining about Michalek getting hit by a stick from the bench (whoever was sitting next to Giroux). Would not be the first time a Flyer has pulled that BS. Michalek's wayward stick in response led to a PP and goal that made it 2-1 early in the 3rd which changed the momentum of the game. Also, I forget which goal (think it was the same one) but a few seconds before it was scored the puck was cleared over the line and offsides wasn't called...seconds later a goal is scored.

Not complaining...Pens had calls go their way, too....but this is not a game a Flyer fan can point to and say "See? Pens bias." This one was pretty even when all is said and done. Sadly, except for the score.

[B21]

@mojo1917

Absolutely...still needs a few more years of this to "rehab" his image but at least we know it's possible. Low and behold, he's having one of his best years statistically. Like with Pronger....he needs to "mellow in his old age".

[Vanflyer]

@B21

"Hartnell turns and two-hands Martin almost baseball style. If Kunitz has to go for the face rub in the ice, so does Hartnell for that swing. That was alot worse than just your 2:00 slash. Hartnell also got away with a high stick on Adams at the end of the first and he was conveniently careless with his stick all game even after the play was over. By the time he went Pujols on Paul Martin the Pens had apparently had enough and Kunitz took it out on him and I am glad he did. "

Come on B21. Hartnell barely swung at Martin and when he did it was at his shin guards. My beef with Kunitz is twofold:

1) He was purposefully attempting to injure Hartnells head by driving his WWIII armored elbow pad into Hartnells head and head into the ice.

2) He did not heed the words of the ref or linesman multiple times.

#1 is probable cause for a 5 minute major under NHL rule 45. Subsequent to that penalty a misconduct can be accessed.

Lets be honest- Kunitz was attempting to injure hartnell and did (evidenced by the nice contusion on Hartnells cheek bone).

[B21]

@Vanflyer

Hey, Van.

I've been trying to find a replay of that but it's difficult at the office. I remember it being pretty bad when NBC showed the replay during the broadcast (one of the few times they did). Not nearly warranted based on what Martin did. Plus, that wasn't the only wayward stick work Hartnell was guilty of in this game. Taken by iteslf, Kunitz actions "probably" weren't warranted but if you take into account everything else up to that point, I'm not going to get on Kunitz at all.

In any event, I don't think that face rub was intent to injure...maybe make life uncomfortable for ol' Scotty but not injure. It was a pretty good rub and all Hartnell came away with was a bruise. Kunitz was pushing his head down when he could have been punching. THEN I'd have no problem with him getting tossed and maybe suspended.

If not listening to the refs is the issue, I can't get too upset there either. Many scrums like that don't end the minute the refs step in...there's that final push, shove, etc. Can't recall a suspension every being handed down for something like that.

I'm sure someone will throw the "What if that were Crosby getting the face rub in the ice?" out there. I'd be pissed obviously. But suspension for the offender? No.

[Merrick]

Hey Van…Totally agree with you in terms of the Kunitz nonsense.

I’m surprised, though, that no one’s talking about Letang’s hit on Jagr. When I watched it, it looked like he left his feet to hit him. I haven’t seen it since, so I’d be willing to accept that the follow-through caused his skates to leave the ice (if that was indeed the case). In real time, though, I thought it looked like a charge.

I was glad to see Rinaldo and Hartnell get right after him, even though the comedy of errors that followed left Rinaldo with a busted lip…

[mojo1917]

@B21

the part that i didn't like from that scrum was this: in the course of that dogpile several times kunitz's shin pad was on Hartnell's noggin, now the shin bone's connected to the foot bone, and the foot bone has the sharp blade attached to it... that was dangerous made more so by kunitz's actions, that thing could have wound up with some serious consequences; where a player could have been seriously injured, like forever in an effort to send a message. i'm pretty sure kunitz didn't want to kill hartnell or disfigure him for life today , you know after the fact, but it sure looked different at the time. he needs to watch that **** or he's going to wind up in dino cicerelli / todd bertuzzi territory with criminal charges and lifelong guilt & regret. or maybe he won't, he doesn't show much respect for his fellow player.

[B21]

@B21

the part that i didn't like from that scrum was this: in the course of that dogpile several times kunitz's shin pad was on Hartnell's noggin, now the shin bone's connected to the foot bone, and the foot bone has the sharp blade attached to it... that was dangerous made more so by kunitz's actions, that thing could have wound up with some serious consequences; where a player could have been seriously injured, like forever in an effort to send a message. i'm pretty sure kunitz didn't want to kill hartnell or disfigure him for life today , you know after the fact, but it sure looked different at the time. he needs to watch that **** or he's going to wind up in dino cicerelli / todd bertuzzi territory with criminal charges and lifelong guilt & regret. or maybe he won't, he doesn't show much respect for his fellow player.

I don't see Kunitz's skates anywhere near Hartnell on the TSN video. His knee is near Hartnell's head just by the way they fell (wasn't kneeing him); the skates are the furthest part of Kunitz from Hartnell. Watch the TSN video from :50 to 1:10. If anything, Kunitz keeps his skates away from Hartnell. There was no intent to inujure with the skates in that scrum at all or carelessness that I can see.

With all due respect given, the day I hear a Flyers fan admit they did not want Chris Pronger and his baggage when he was acquired back in '09 is the day I will keep quiet and take it about a guy like Cooke or Kunitz on my team. The problem is, I didn't read a single post in any forum about anyone having an issue with a guy being acquired who clearly does not respect his fellow player. Only what was given up to get him, his age, contract extension, etc. Still - he was born to wear the O&B. You mentioned you did not like the proximity of Kunitz's skate in the scrum...Pronger was suspended for 8 games for using his skate in a clearly reckless manner. He's kicked players. He's slashed guys in the throat. If you want to argue Kunitz has no respect for his fellow player then what can be said about Pronger? You could add up everything Cooke and Kunitz have ever done and it still won't equal Pronger's history i/m/o. Yet not once have I seen a single comment about Pronger even equal to what Flyers fans think should be done with Cooke and Kunitz.

If any Flyer fan feels that strong about Kunitz (or Cooke or Malkin) then there is no way you can not feel the same about Pronger w/o sounding like a hyprocite.

Sorry for the rant.

[Vanflyer]

@B21-

Flyers fans like their rought and tumble d-men (pronger, hatcher, etc.). Yet the reality is that Pronger has been downright saintly since his time with the Flyers.

I didn't see Kunitz intentionally trying to injure hartnell with his skates but his repeated refusal of listening to linesman and refs was putting hartnell in a dangerous position and kunitz skates were getting up near his chest / neck which is dangerous territory when a linesman and ref are trying to separate the players.

[flyerrod]

@ B21

With Malkin's stick work game in and game out, you are going to get upset by someone returning the favor? Kunitz was over the line. Did it warrant a suspension, probably not but it damn sure should have been a major for not stopping after 2 refs are trying to break it up and continuing to use Hartnell's face for an ice scraper.....I can't complain about Cooke this year, he seems to have removed his head from his butt and is playing strong and clean hockey. Kunitz will get a chance to drop the mitts with Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, or maybe even Shelley if by some miracle(for Pitt he is on the ice due to injuries), Nah probably not, facing someone is not as easy as using your elbows to grind someone while they are being held down......

[B21]

@Vanflyer

<< Flyers fans like their rought and tumble d-men (pronger, hatcher, etc.). Yet the reality is that Pronger has been downright saintly since his time with the Flyers. >>

I know...that's the response I usually get and I liken that situation to Cooke who, if he keeps up his good behavior, will have a similar "disciplinary" path. If Cooke is "clean" for 2 more seasons (about the same amount of time Pronger will have been "clean" with the Flyers), are Flyers fans all of a sudden going to temper their animosity towards him? Doubt it.

I'm more focused on when Pronger was acquired. Think of it as if the Flyers has signed Cooke this offseason. When you traded for Pronger he had just that past season come off suspension #8. I'm not intending to get on the Flyers fan for not getting on him now. It's not getting on him when he was acquired then getting on Cooke or Kunitz now that I have a small issue with...at least when people are calling for Kunitz's head on a platter when the incident was borderline suspendable at best.

<< I didn't see Kunitz intentionally trying to injure hartnell with his skates but his repeated refusal of listening to linesman and refs was putting hartnell in a dangerous position and kunitz skates were getting up near his chest / neck which is dangerous territory when a linesman and ref are trying to separate the players. >>

I saw his skates well away from the head then as the linesman try to separate them they kinda flip Kunitz and his skates end up near the boards. I don't see them anywhere close to putting Hartnell in danger. There are lots of hokcey plays that end up with guys coming "close" to another guys skates. It happens.

[B21]

@flyerrod

<< With Malkin's stick work game in and game out, you are going to get upset by someone returning the favor? Kunitz was over the line. Did it warrant a suspension, probably not but it damn sure should have been a major for not stopping after 2 refs are trying to break it up and continuing to use Hartnell's face for an ice scraper.....I can't complain about Cooke this year, he seems to have removed his head from his butt and is playing strong and clean hockey. Kunitz will get a chance to drop the mitts with Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, or maybe even Shelley if by some miracle(for Pitt he is on the ice due to injuries), Nah probably not, facing someone is not as easy as using your elbows to grind someone while they are being held down >>

I'm not at all upset about Hartnell returning the favor. But isn't that what Kunitz was doing? I've already said that another 2:00 was probably warranted. If that's the problem (Kunitz not getting enough minutes during the game) then I can point to the slash on Malkin in OT that wasn't called that would have led to a PP that evens out PIM issue.

[Vanflyer]

@B21-

I am all for reformed players. So if cooke keeps his nose clean for a couple more years, sure I will cut him some slack. But the reality is that his situation reminds me of the Barnaby's / Avery's of the world where Pens management said clean-up your act or you will be riding a bus in Scranton.

In regards to Kunitz, I am not calling for his head on a platter. What I did want was the refs to make the proper call at the game, which to me would have been EITHER double minor or 5 minute major AND 10 minute misconduct (particularly if the 5 minute major was assessed).

People are more upset at the blown call by the refs and want some acknowledgement by the league that the league does not condone his actions. I do not think it was suspension worthy, but at least a phone call and a slap on the wrist fine. Had the refs made the right call during the game, then the message would have been properly set in the proper context within the confines of the game.