flyerrod Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Neal had no idea Marchand was there, and hit the boards head first. To say that wasn't a hit on the numbers and drove him into the boards is a sign of either blindness or just plain hatin'.Sorry bud but I really think your team colors are showing there. As Neal feels the contact, he turns his face towards the board to draw the penalty. The funniest part was it was exactly the same thing Marchand has done a 1000 times. Both of those players, Neal and Marchand would not be out of place on a soccer field with their patented diving techniques. The players themselves as a whole need to stop with the attempts to draw the call. Both teams, Boston and Pittsburgh have some of the most obvious offenders for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sorry bud but I really think your team colors are showing there. As Neal feels the contact, he turns his face towards the board to draw the penalty. The funniest part was it was exactly the same thing Marchand has done a 1000 times. Both of those players, Neal and Marchand would not be out of place on a soccer field with their patented diving techniques. The players themselves as a whole need to stop with the attempts to draw the call. Both teams, Boston and Pittsburgh have some of the most obvious offenders for this.Agree Marchand is ****. Disagree on Neal entirely. Neal angers me with his lack of physicality for a man his size. The few times he uses it he really runs around out there and has an impact. But he draws very very few penalties.Neal was 244th in the league in drawn penalties. There are fourteen Flyers ahead of him on that list. Actually... There are 5 Flyers on the list, including Hartnell down and Claude "my wrists still hurt" Giroux, before even Crosby. How's that for surprising to you? I don't know that drawing 0.8 penalties per full 60 minutes of ice team counts as a diver as opposed to.. Say... Giroux's 1.9 or Rinaldo's 3.2.... Or Hartnell's 1.6. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Agree Marchand is ****. Disagree on Neal entirely. Neal angers me with his lack of physicality for a man his size. The few times he uses it he really runs around out there and has an impact. But he draws very very few penalties.Neal was 244th in the league in drawn penalties. There are fourteen Flyers ahead of him on that list. Actually... There are 5 Flyers on the list, including Hartnell down and Claude "my wrists still hurt" Giroux, before even Crosby. How's that for surprising to you? I don't know that drawing 0.8 penalties per full 60 minutes of ice team counts as a diver as opposed to.. Say... Giroux's 1.9 or Rinaldo's 3.2.... Or Hartnell's 1.6. I've looked for the Penalties Drawn stats. Where do you find them?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 @B21http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=41&s=46&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46#snip=f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Why does every defense of a Penguins player result in a Flyer being invoked? The discussion appeared to me be about Neal's action in a game against the Bruins, what the **** does that have to do with Claude Giroux or Scott Hartnell or Peter f**king Pan???? Nothing at all, its a logical fallacy called a red herring, an irrelevant statement to distract from the discussion at hand. As I've been reminded numerous times in these pages, Flyers are not playing hockey, they're playing golf. Right? Right. Carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Why does every defense of a Penguins player result in a Flyer being invoked? The discussion appeared to me be about Neal's action in a game against the Bruins, what the **** does that have to do with Claude Giroux or Scott Hartnell or Peter f**king Pan???? Nothing at all, its a logical fallacy called a red herring, an irrelevant statement to distract from the discussion at hand. As I've been reminded numerous times in these pages, Flyers are not playing hockey, they're playing golf. Right? Right. Carry on.The stats were used simply to point out that Neal is either not a diver, as alleged, or he's one of the worst divers in history. The Flyers player stats were relevant in that they provide a comparison for how many "dives" Neal is "guilty" of. Comparing stats to a Jackets player or a Coyote would be pointless as you guys don't follow those teams any more than I do. And I find it ironic that so many Flyers are so much higher than The majority of the Pens on that stat. Some players you can easily believe the penalties are drawn because they're talented. i.e. Giroux. But then you had better give Sid the same respect as he draws less than G and is more talented. I sit here and read countless Pens are divers posts. I thought the stats were long overdue to speak of. I'm honestly surprised you replied this way. You're usually one to rebut comments with facts. Not complain that it's mean. All the f-bombs and anger... My Pens are falling apart, but I'm not crying here every time someone says the Flyers beat them last year, even though that's completely irrelevant...Carry on yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) @polaris922The F bomb sentence was half tongue in cheek, half Rodney Dangerfield schtick, can't do the ninja while phone typing. Certainty wasn't complaining that it was mean, was stating my opinion that what a Flyer does or doesn't is completely irrelevant to a discussion on what Neal did or didn't or didn't do on a specific play in a game against the Boston Bruins. But since we're here.....Penalties drawn is not a direct indicator of diving. You cited Zac Rinaldo with a 3 point something per 60, is that because he's a flopper? No, it's because he draws people into fights. I would bet dollars to donuts that his penalties taken exceed that 3 point whatever number. Quick, who's the biggest diver in O&B? That would be Danny Briere. If he's not on top of that Flyer list, ahead of Zac Rinaldo, then I would say that the statistic is flawed for the point you are trying to make. Edited June 6, 2013 by sarsippius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 @polaris922The F bomb sentence was half tongue in cheek, half Rodney Dangerfield schtick, can't do the ninja while phone typing. Certainty wasn't complaining that it was mean, was stating my opinion that what a Flyer does or doesn't is completely irrelevant to a discussion on what Neal did or didn't or didn't do on a specific play in a game against the Boston Bruins. But since we're here.....Penalties drawn is not a direct indicator of diving. You cited Zac Rinaldo with a 3 point something per 60, is that because he's a flopper? No, it's because he draws people into fights. I would bet dollars to donuts that his penalties taken exceed that 3 point whatever number. Quick, who's the biggest diver in O&B? That would be Danny Briere. If he's not on top of that Flyer list, ahead of Zac Rinaldo, then I would say that the statistic is flawed for the point you are trying to make.As I said certain players you could argue methodology for. I believe the stat does not include fight calls as per the statistician but I'll need to get to a computer to see the definitions again. Regardless... There are No real fighters at the top of that list barring if you count Rinaldo who is more pest than brawler. The stat remains relevant and significantly mutes all the Pens are divers bullshat some Flyers fans spout non-stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) PS). Briere is 101st in the league... Tied with Malkin in that stat category only. Lol. 8th on your team. Edited June 6, 2013 by Polaris922 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 As I said certain players you could argue methodology for. I believe the stat does not include fight calls as per the statistician but I'll need to get to a computer to see the definitions again. Regardless... There are No real fighters at the top of that list barring if you count Rinaldo who is more pest than brawler. The stat remains relevant and significantly mutes all the Pens are divers bullshat some Flyers fans spout non-stop.Fair enough on fighting element, but I still don't agree on the relevance of the stat. IMO You could only use penalties drawn as a direct link to diving if 1-ALL penalties called were because the "victim" flopped or otherwise exaggerated the offense (i.e. no called penalties were actually valid) and 2- EVERY dive resulted in a penalty to the aggressor. If either of those conditions are not satisfied, a causal relationship can't be drawn between diving and penalties. Honestly if Briere is 8th on the Flyers, I think it illustrates my point.....otherwise he'd lead the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 The point of the post remains... Neal was accused of being a diver. He draws 0.8 penalties for every 60 minutes played. By comparison there are 243 players ahead of him on that stat. You can't justify a diver allegation in my opinion. A guy like Giroux is no diver yet draws twice the penalties. The idea was to present how rarely Neal draws them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 The point of the post remains... Neal was accused of being a diver.On that particular play, yes I did accuse him of diving. Your stats for penalties drawn does not correlate or is not relevant to the fact that on the play in question, Neal flopped like a fish. I was wrong to sight him as one of the guys with a "patented technique" , that would go more with Mr. head flail himself (Letang). I just found it incredibly funny that Marchand of all people, whilst was sitting in the penalty box and on the way to the penalty box, was crying the whole way about Neal diving. THAT is high comedy at it's best. I give the referee all the credit in the world for not laughing out loud at Marchand accusing someone else of being a diver...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 On that particular play, yes I did accuse him of diving. Your stats for penalties drawn does not correlate or is not relevant to the fact that on the play in question, Neal flopped like a fish. I was wrong to sight him as one of the guys with a "patented technique" , that would go more with Mr. head flail himself (Letang). I just found it incredibly funny that Marchand of all people, whilst was sitting in the penalty box and on the way to the penalty box, was crying the whole way about Neal diving. THAT is high comedy at it's best. I give the referee all the credit in the world for not laughing out loud at Marchand accusing someone else of being a diver......Well I already stated I disagree on your take on the call, but I posted the stats purely about the diving comment. I DO think Marchand is a tool though so I agree with you about the irony part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Why does every defense of a Penguins player result in a Flyer being invoked? The discussion appeared to me be about Neal's action in a game against the Bruins, what the **** does that have to do with Claude Giroux or Scott Hartnell or Peter f**king Pan???? Nothing at all, its a logical fallacy called a red herring, an irrelevant statement to distract from the discussion at hand. As I've been reminded numerous times in these pages, Flyers are not playing hockey, they're playing golf. Right? Right.Carry on.Sorry, man. But you guys are just as guilty of that if not more so. If any of the Pens fans here started a post about another player being "dirty" or a hit being "questionable", at least nine of them would have a reply from a Flyers fan referencing Matt Cooke or Malkin not getting his instigator suspension back in '09 or....Want proof? Check out the Duncan Keith thread I started.Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Sorry, man. But you guys are just as guilty of that if not more so. If any of the Pens fans here started a post about another player being "dirty" or a hit being "questionable", at least nine of them would have a reply from a Flyers fan referencing Matt Cooke or Malkin not getting his instigator suspension back in '09 or....Want proof? Check out the Duncan Keith thread I started.Carry on. I'd guess any thread on any teams board at any level of hockey regarding any dirty play would have a Matt Cooke reference....even on Pluto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'd guess any thread on any teams board at any level of hockey regarding any dirty play would have a Matt Cooke reference....even on Pluto.Not at all. Didn't you hear? Pluto is not even a planet anymore.Now Youranus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 @B21 It may not be a planet, but it still has dirty hockey players...I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Sorry, man. But you guys are just as guilty of that if not more so. If any of the Pens fans here started a post about another player being "dirty" or a hit being "questionable", at least nine of them would have a reply from a Flyers fan referencing Matt Cooke or Malkin not getting his instigator suspension back in '09 or....Want proof? Check out the Duncan Keith thread I started.Carry on.You're not going to sway me by including people who are CLEARLY not part of the "you guys" you are referring to (what do mean, "YOU PEOPLE" **ninja face so nobody gets upset**) in discussions about Flyer fans that make what you deem to irrelevant and out of place Pens criticisms. I try to keep my arguments at least based on logic, I think, and from from memory flyerrod, whose conversation I butted into uninvited, generally does the same. And was doing so in the posts leading up to my horrible, horrible outburst, therefore I found Polaris' misdirection away from the actual point to be out of place. If you want to use the "you guys" argument, then use it with "those guys".And I stand by the actual point I was trying to make, which is that IM(not so)HO the statistics cited do not, even if they were directly correlatable with whether is a player is a diver (which I think made a half persuasive case that this is not the case) or not, it would still have no relevance to whether or not a player embellished the hit on a specific play. I found the other side of the argument so off base that I reacted in manner that clearly offended the delicate sensibilities of some. That discussion has run its course, I hope.Ninja face smiley devil horns can't we all just get along icon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I wasn't offended if you're referring to me. Just thought it was obvious why is use players you watch every day in the comparison for drawing penalties. Again... Neal gets almost as much ice time as Giroux, and is in a role similar to Hartnell's, yet has far fewer drawn penalties. Apparently it made sense to others besides me, as Flyerrod, who the post was replying to, responded he understood where I was coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 "Wait a minute Jefferson. Who are you calling you people? You people are you people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Just overstating my case my case on the "offended" comments, channelling the smarm of ruxpin but in a low budget style. I get your point and I have mine, we just don't agree on the relevance of the stat and that's fine.Ok how about something we agree on, marijuana posession in small amounts should be decriminilized, discuss....wait, nevermind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 You're not going to sway me by including people who are CLEARLY not part of the "you guys" you are referring to (what do mean, "YOU PEOPLE" **ninja face so nobody gets upset**) in discussions about Flyer fans that make what you deem to irrelevant and out of place Pens criticisms. I try to keep my arguments at least based on logic, I think, and from from memory flyerrod, whose conversation I butted into uninvited, generally does the same. And was doing so in the posts leading up to my horrible, horrible outburst, therefore I found Polaris' misdirection away from the actual point to be out of place. If you want to use the "you guys" argument, then use it with "those guys".And I stand by the actual point I was trying to make, which is that IM(not so)HO the statistics cited do not, even if they were directly correlatable with whether is a player is a diver (which I think made a half persuasive case that this is not the case) or not, it would still have no relevance to whether or not a player embellished the hit on a specific play. I found the other side of the argument so off base that I reacted in manner that clearly offended the delicate sensibilities of some. That discussion has run its course, I hope.Ninja face smiley devil horns can't we all just get along iconOK - I think. But your exact comment was Why does every defense of a Penguins player result in a Flyer being invoked? It's not every. I don't know what it is. But I do know that it happens just as much when a Pens fans criticizes any player (talking about cheap shots, suspensions, etc.) that something involving a Pens player will be invoked.That's all - I took issue with what seemed to be your thinking that this doesn't happen when the shoe is on the other foot. It does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Agreed the use of "every" in the opening sentence was an exaggeration.Marijuana decriminalization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Agreed the use of "every" in the opening sentence was an exaggeration.Marijuana decriminalization?yes !though i'm too old and don't want my daughter to see me baked... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 though i'm too old and don't want my daughter to see me baked...Ah yes, I face the same issue.....strictly a night out kinda thing these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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