radoran Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Bryan Little just signed for $4.7M per. Basically a 20-25 goal, 50-point guy.Ryan Clowe, who was a classic 20/50 guy before the past two seasons: $4.85MTyler Bozak barely has sniffed 20/50 (18/47 in 11-12) and got $4.2MDerek Roy hasn't been that guy since 09-10 and just got $4M (one year deal)Bryan Bickell - who has never been a 20/50 guy just got $4M.Valterri Filppula just hit 20/50 for the first time in 11-12 and got $5MLikewise David Clarkson (who, to be fair, did post a 30/50 season and was "on pace" for 30 in the shortened season) $5.25MIs $4M+ the new "floor" for 20/50 forwards (let's call them "consistent producers") in the NHL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 @radoran That's why I thought Gagner's 4.8 was not out of whack...he's still on a upwards trend and it appears like hitting 50 pts a year from this point on will not be a huge challenge. I was glad to see the overrated Dustin Penner get a even 2 mill a year. He does not produce enough, or with enough consistancy to enter the 4 mill range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 @radoran That's why I thought Gagner's 4.8 was not out of whack...he's still on a upwards trend and it appears like hitting 50 pts a year from this point on will not be a huge challenge.I was glad to see the overrated Dustin Penner get a even 2 mill a year. He does not produce enough, or with enough consistancy to enter the 4 mill range.Penner was a fairly consistent 20-goal guy but he's fallen off a cliff in Los Angeles. He had 21 goals in 62 games for Edmonton the year he was traded. 11 in 117 since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 @radoran Yep, exactly why he deserved a one year 2 mill dollar deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haliax Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Basically the question is whether $4million is the norm for 2nd line players. And I'd say yes it is, and I don't really see a problem with that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 @Haliax I tend to agree, players that are up and comers or falling from elite status, that is more than fair for them. As the cap goes up (and it will). I have a feeling that the norm for these types of players will go up quickly, probably 5 mill in a few years from now....and I'm ok with that also, that would be fair compenstation considering the cap will go up by leaps and bounds next year and the forseeable future. Would not be surprised to see the norm pushed for these guys to 6 mill in 3-5 years, taking into account the growing popularity of the sport and previous cap increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 @Haliax I tend to agree, players that are up and comers or falling from elite status, that is more than fair for them. As the cap goes up (and it will). I have a feeling that the norm for these types of players will go up quickly, probably 5 mill in a few years from now....and I'm ok with that also, that would be fair compenstation considering the cap will go up by leaps and bounds next year and the forseeable future. Would not be surprised to see the norm pushed for these guys to 6 mill in 3-5 years, taking into account the growing popularity of the sport and previous cap increases.I'm not sure the game is "growing" in popularity as much as they are maximizing the returns from current fans. Attendance numbers in the traditional markets are maxed out and the numbers in non-traditional markets are often stagnant (at best).It's not that it's out of line, it's just the new reality ("The New NHL").If you look at it, at first line averaging $6M per: $18MSecond line at $4.5M: $13.5Third line at $2M: $6MFourth at $1M: $3MFirst D pair: $13MSecond: $8Third: $4That's $65M right there (and those numbers are likely high given the ability to plug in RFAs). Fits right in line with the $70M cap.Of course, the $70M cap was entirely "unsustainable" and we had to lose half a season of hockey to get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 With the expected rise in the cap the coming seasons, the norm is going just keep getting bigger. Its a gamble, but the teams locking up true star players at $8M a year now long term could be seen as bargains 4 years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 With the expected rise in the cap the coming seasons, the norm is going just keep getting bigger. Its a gamble, but the teams locking up true star players at $8M a year now long term could be seen as bargains 4 years from now.Exactly. I've already bought my tickets to the 2021 Lockout Showdown in Topeka, KS (the newest NHL expansion team in non-traditional markets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 With the expected rise in the cap the coming seasons, the norm is going just keep getting bigger. Its a gamble, but the teams locking up true star players at $8M a year now long term could be seen as bargains 4 years from now.The top salary is based upon a percentage of the cap, so it could conceivably continue to rise.I don't see a situation in which a player is going to be offered more than a Crosby or Malkin, for example. Owners will certainly be using those players (and others) and their salary level as an articifical "cap" ("You're not saying you're better than Crosby, are you?")Owners have worked hard to keep top salaries mostly flat for the past 15-20 years (there was a peak that was "corrected" by the 04-05 lockout) and are set to keep them at that level for at least the next 5-10.Under those circumstances, it's not that surprising to see the "second tier" start to edge higher and higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 One thing good about this 20/50 4+ thing is it makes Hartnells contract look... well, not quite as stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 That Neal fella is a real bargain at $5,000,000 per, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 That Neal fella is a real bargain at $5,000,000 per, eh? When Malkin plays, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 When Malkin Crosby plays, sure.Kinda like Giroux is worth $8,000,000 when Jagr plays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @B21 I'm already on record here saying Holmgren overpaid him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @B21I'm already on record here saying Holmgren overpaid him.That was more than I thought he'd get - not by much but more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @B21 I thought if he was going to get the full term, he should get somewhere in the 7 mil range. It may not be a huge difference, but when you do that with several players you end up having to ice borderline AHL talent somewhere else to even things out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @B21I thought if he was going to get the full term, he should get somewhere in the 7 mil range. It may not be a huge difference, but when you do that with several players you end up having to ice borderline AHL talent somewhere else to even things out.Giroux is the only guy on this team worthy of an 8 year, $8M per kind of deal, so I'm not too worried about it spreading The other thing is that his salary is right in the ballpark of Getzlaf and Perry, so I don't think it's an overpayment at all if you look at it as basically getting his 'market' value.Of all the potential 'overpaid' players on the Flyers, Giroux is at the bottom of my list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @brelic It's far from the worst contract, no doubt. I just thought if the guy was getting EIGHT years he could take a little haircut for the team. Who knows, maybe Homer offered him ten and he talked him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @B21 I think it's a fair to conclude that Neal benefits pts wise from playing with a star like Malkin, as almost any player would. He's a nice player with or with out Malkin, but when you look at his pt totals for the Stars and then the Pens, it's obvious he gained roughly 10-15 more goals by playing with Malkin. Looks like he gave the Pens a bit of a hometown discount, which was a much needed cap break for you guys. 40 goal scorers that are young like Neal could easily get 6-7 mill a year in the current cap scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @brelicIt's far from the worst contract, no doubt. I just thought if the guy was getting EIGHT years he could take a little haircut for the team. Who knows, maybe Homer offered him ten and he talked him down.Speaking of haircuts, I was going to post something silly about preferring 2011 Giroux with long hair reminiscent of Clarke over 2013 Giroux with the short preppy cut, and when I went looking for pictures, I came across this one:LOL, when did this happen? No wonder Giroux had an off year.. he's been hanging with our PM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @brelic WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 LOL, when did this happen? No wonder Giroux had an off year.. he's been hanging with our PM!Great, now I can never "not see" that suit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 @radoran Pretty sweet huh rad? Looks like he slept in it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Looks like he slept in it too!Looks like he hasn't been to bed yet to me....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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