Frank's Take on the Flyers... Alright come clean Frank, which poster are you!?

[murraycraven]

Alright, have at this one but my sentiments (as much as a cant stand Frank S) are pretty much spot on.   Additionally, I am more than convinced that radoran  Frank S. poaches this board for topics and analysis.  

 

 

 

 

For the first time in a long time, the Flyers are stuck in neutral: Not only are they not exactly sure what kind of team they are as currently assembled, but they don't seem to be quite sure of where they are going.

 

That is unusual. Think about it. If nothing else, the Flyers always could rely on being one of the toughest teams to play against in the NHL.

 

But the days of the Broad Street Bullies are over. The Flyers are eighth in the NHL in fighting majors with six. They are also eighth in the league in hits with 223. They aren't going to intimidate anyone.

 

 

They aren't a particularly tough team to play against at the Wells Fargo Center with a 1-4-0 home record this season.

They aren't exactly an exciting team to watch, as evidenced by the growing number of empty, burgundy seats at home games. The most interesting thing about this season so far is that the 2014 draft is being held in Philly.

 

They aren't a fast team, despite being pushed to skate more and more daily by Craig Berube.

 

They aren't even that talented a team, just look at their 1.38 goals-per-game through the first eight contests and the numerous holes on their roster. They are more sandpaper than finesse.

 

More than anything, though, perhaps the most troubling fact about the current state of the Flyers is that their future is muddy. Who are they?

 

You can say a lot of things about the Sixers, or even the NHL's Buffalo Sabres, but they are at least stockpiling high draft picks and clear about their goals for this season. The Flyers' "win now" mentality gets in the way of any clear rebuilding plan. It is reload instead of rebuild.

In Buffalo, fans have been chanting "Fire Darcy" at each home game, calling for the head of general manager Darcy Regier, who has been in office since 1997.

 

The forecast - at least for the next couple of seasons - is bleak in Buffalo. But the Sabres have dressed four teenagers in their lineup so far this season: Nikita Zadorov (18), Zemgus Girgensons (19), Mikhail Grigorenko (19) and Rasmus Ristolainen (18). And they're ahead of the Flyers in the standings.

 

Perhaps unlike any other sport, hockey is a young man's game. So far, 13 teenagers have scored a goal in the first 3 weeks of the season. San Jose's Thomas Hertl, 19, would lead the Flyers in scoring by a whopping four goals.

 

The Flyers are squarely stuck in the middle. On opening night, the Flyers were the ninth-oldest team in the NHL, with an average age of 28.1 years.

 

Their average is brought down by players like Sean Couturier (20), Brayden Schenn (22), and Luke Schenn (23). The only way to fix the Flyers is through the draft and trades - the latter an avenue that Paul Holmgren has been perusing daily.

But you could make an argument that the Flyers really don't have all that much to offer besides Couturier, the Schenns, Claude Giroux, Jake Voracek and Wayne Simmonds. Matt Read is 27 now, does not have a point this season, and starts a $14 million deal next season. The rest of the roster is either too old, too highly paid, or too much of a band-aid.

 

And you could also make an argument that the Flyers have overvalued their young talent, since the production they've gotten has been at times inconsistent. Teams were clamoring to acquire a player like Couturier last season, but if he continues not scoring, how long until teams pigeon-hole him as a glorified, shutdown defensive forward?

 

Part of the trouble is that much of this Flyers roster was shaped around the style that Peter Laviolette wanted to play. Nearly any player who didn't mesh with Laviolette's style or attitude - from Jeff Carter to James van Riemsdyk to Dan Carcillo to

 

Matt Carle - was either traded or let walk through free agency. Laviolette influenced a ton of personnel decisions. And now he's looking for another job.

It will take more than five games - or more than a month - for this team to assume Berube's chosen identity. Part of that can begin now, though, with a series of moves to acquire players who will be here for the long haul.

 

There is an old adage in sports that says a general manager shouldn't be given a chance to rebuild, since it is his fault the original build crumbled.

 

But I'm going to take a different view on Holmgren. He is under a different type of pressure - the itchy trigger finger of Ed Snider - than any other general manager in the league. To say that pressure doesn't affect his long view of the franchise is absurd. It is the main reason the Flyers' minor league system was so barren, its fruits and replenishments robbed by a "win now" mentality.

 

The cupboard is in the process of being rebuilt by Ron Hextall. Top prospects Sam Morin and Scott Laughton aren't being poisoned by a losing atmosphere in Glens Falls.

There is a way to fix all of this - and it will only come by making tough decisions. Holmgren needs to decide which of his tradable young assets are worth keeping and find new homes for those who are not. And he needs to do it fast.

 

Because the Flyers aren't going anywhere stuck in neutral

Edited October 21, 2013 by murraycraven

[RonJeremy]

Gomer should realize the team is going nowhere, and he should take 2-3 steps back in order to take a big leap forward.  At the deadline he should trade as many high priced vets as he can.

Playoff bound teams always grossly overpay when its time to shore up their rosters and there are bidding wars that jack up the price even more.

Homer should talk to the veterans and say, we are changing direction(again), we are going for a rebuild and I want you guys to waive your NTC , and Im sure most would like a shot at the Cup, rather than to be on a rebuilding team. To me our best assets for a deadline deal are Hartnell and Timmo, but there are others who should also be put on the block. Of course .unless we get value, we do not dump guys just for the sake of it.

 

Timmo is  the type of veteran that many teams would want for a playoff run, unless we run him into the ground overplaying him. Hartnell is a playoff warrior and we could get plenty for him. As far as Streit and Vinny go, the price and length of their contracts may make them untradeable, but Homer sure should try. We have to hope for injuries ,so teams are desperate and overpay. Talbot is another guy we should move .  We have an immobile defense  and we should trade Grossman, if we are keeping Luke Schenn. We need to add some skill and speed back there.  Mez should be getting big ice time  to jack up his value, if he plays bad, so what we are losing him to UFA anyway ., if he plays well his value increases.

 

Homer should also realize that we have too many centers and trade either Coots or Laughton for an equally rated young  offensive style defenseman. We should aim for some good prospects from other teams when making trades, some guys who can be NHL ready next year or the following. To me Hartnell is worth a first rounder and a top prospect alone . We should also compile draft picks and put ourselves in a position to trade up at the draft if we want to. I would listen to offers for anyone on the roster although Id like to keep a nucleas of Voracek ,the Schenns, Read,  Giroux, Simmonds, Rinaldo ,etc. I would listen to all offers and see whats out there.

 

On a good note it looks like we wont need a goalie. Mason is looking great.

[Mad Dog]

The only exception I would take to the column is his assertion that the Flyers are "stuck in neutral".  That would actually not be so bad if they did.  But my concern is that they are actually spiraling down.  If this torture of the performance continues, they are way en route to becoming the worst team in the league - not only in standings or statistically, but performance-wise.  That's why I just don't see any benefit in not starting the firesale now.  What is the point in further breeding this losing atmosphere?  Start finding ways of dumping the dead weight NOW.  Why wait?  What possible purpose will that serve?  This team has absolutely zero going for them as of right now.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Mad Dog

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

That's why I just don't see any benefit in not starting the firesale now.  What is the point in further breeding this losing atmosphere?  Start finding ways of dumping the dead weight NOW.  Why wait?  What possible purpose will that serve?

 

@Mad Dog,

 

No offense intended, but this part of you post is quite bi-polar.  What are you trying to say?

[Mad Dog]

@AlaskaFlyerFan

 

What I am trying to say is I would try finding ways to improve the team NOW as opposed to waiting till the off-season.  I see no point in keeping Coburn, for example.  He won't get any better; I have seen enough of him.  I would like to think that there would be at least one team who would be interested in acquiring Timonen.  I also don't see why not make Lauridsen, Gus, and Raffle the regulars at this point?

 

I don't agree with those who say it's a good situation for the Flyers to just ride this season out and start re-building in the off-season.  For one, I don't believe this owner will be willing to do that.  And I just can't see what possible good can come from losing unstoppably.  I can't see how a losing mentality can have any positive influence on the yoing players who just begin their career.  Am I proposing to start trading the Couturiers, B Schenns and Voraceks of the world for yet another over-the-hill, washed up old have-beens?  Absolutely not. But what is the point in contiuing this torture?  Clearly, this team is not anywhere close to be good enough to even make the playoffs. 

[canoli]

Seriously? You're advocating blowing up the team after 8 games?

 

Okay then (using your logic) the place to start has to be with the guys who are most responsible for the losses. It sure isn't the defense and it's not the goalies. You don't want to move Couturier or Schenn or Vorachek (why hang onto Voracheck he's showed us nothing all year?). But okay who does that leave? Obviously the first guy to go should be Giroux, then Read, Simmonds, Talbot in a package deal for picks and prospects. Sound good?

 

Come on man we're all fed up with losing but the answer isn't a firesale 2 weeks into the season. Plus if the angry mob is right and Homer is a know-nothing idiot without a plan then he's the last guy you want in charge of the rebuild.

 

Face it my friend we're just going to have to ride it out. You can draw up the plays and drill till your blue but you can't coach goals. Eventually they'll come, have a little faith. Giroux and Co. will settle down and start scoring. And if we bury ourselves before they do and end up missing the POs - well that will almost certainly cost Homer his job and then ... then you'll only have Ed left to blame!

[Howie58]

I liked this piece very much. But my suspicion is that Holmgren is more an opportunist than an strategist. Snider's shortsightedness is clearly part of the equation but I really wonder if Homer has been a more than willing accomplice.

 

If the team is below .500 we will see some culling of the herd.  But with the NTCs and high salaries, how much can be lopped off?  I think we are in a messy spot for years to come.

 

Best,

 

Howie

[radoran]

Seriously? You're advocating blowing up the team after 8 games?

 

What kind of lunatic would advocate making major changes in a team this early in the season?

 

[caluso]

Seriously? You're advocating blowing up the team after 8 games?

 

Okay then (using your logic) the place to start has to be with the guys who are most responsible for the losses. It sure isn't the defense and it's not the goalies. You don't want to move Couturier or Schenn or Vorachek (why hang onto Voracheck he's showed us nothing all year?). But okay who does that leave? Obviously the first guy to go should be Giroux, then Read, Simmonds, Talbot in a package deal for picks and prospects. Sound good?

 

Come on man we're all fed up with losing but the answer isn't a firesale 2 weeks into the season. Plus if the angry mob is right and Homer is a know-nothing idiot without a plan then he's the last guy you want in charge of the rebuild.

 

Face it my friend we're just going to have to ride it out. You can draw up the plays and drill till your blue but you can't coach goals. Eventually they'll come, have a little faith. Giroux and Co. will settle down and start scoring. And if we bury ourselves before they do and end up missing the POs - well that will almost certainly cost Homer his job and then ... then you'll only have Ed left to blame!

the team is seriously flawed and has been for over a year now. if we want the team blown up, it is based on more than a half seasons' work and not just 8 games. are you forgetting the teams' no show last year? If Gomer / Snider / Hextall don't realize that this is a rebuilding year, then the organization is in way worse shape than even the most pessimistic fan would say.

 

Gomer is a moron and shouldn't be in charge of the rebuild, that much is abundantly obvious. Nevertheless, the team needs a serious makeover. A lot of people on this board and within the Flyer organization overvalued guys like Read, Giroux, L. Schenn, Couturier......and now they are paying for it. 

[Mad Dog]

Come on man we're all fed up with losing but the answer isn't a firesale 2 weeks into the season. Plus if the angry mob is right and Homer is a know-nothing idiot without a plan then he's the last guy you want in charge of the rebuild.

 

Except, this wouldn't be 2 weeks into the season.  This abortion is in essense simply a continuation of the last, albeit a shortened, season.  Not much has changed in the way the team has performed.

 

And yes, replacing Homer would be on top of my agenda.  Snider isn't going to do it, but Homer is incapable of making executive personnel decisions.

 

I just don't see anything from this team.  The thought of having to watch this for the rest of the season is beyond depressing.

[murraycraven]

But my suspicion is that Holmgren is more an opportunist than an strategist.

 

Howie, I think you summed up the Flyers/Homer's "strategy' perfectly...

 

@Mad Dog, I agree that everything we are seeing is a continuation of last season.  Only now they dont have the exccuse of a shortened season so they used the Coach (Lavy) as the patsy.   All in all I would not make any trades our of panic and would see of this group can turn it around.  With that being said if this Team can't get it together I would wait to the trade deadling and sell off as many bad contracts as I can - Kimmo, Streit, Vinny, Hartnell, etc...  You might get some to agree to a trade for a shot at the Cup and Playoffs.

 

Right now I think it is a "wait & see" period but you know that Homer's trigger finger is getting twitchy...

[canoli]

This abortion is in essense simply a continuation of the last, albeit a shortened, season. Not much has changed in the way the team has performed.

 

I disagree; a lot has changed defensively for the better. In fact I honestly don't see much that is "a continuation..." from last year or any other year. So far this season is remarkable for one reason and that is that the guys can't score goals. But defensively, the D-men but also the Team D has improved dramatically. Obviously Mason is a big factor; he's bailed them out more than a few times. But that's what good goalies do. It's not like he's the sole reason the Flyers have been close in every game going into the 3rd.

 

Don't get me wrong  I see the boneheaded clearing attempts and the flat-out brain dead "coverage" (if we can even call it that). But those have been the exceptions. By and large the Flyers are keeping good teams from scoring goals, period. Yes it's a small sample - Wings, Pens, Canucks - but they played well against them defensively.

 

So no I don't see a continuation of the "same old same old" from the Flyers at all. My prediction that everything would get better immediately once we jettisoned Bryzgalov didn't come true but there's really only one reason why it didn't: Zero Offense. Look I'm not saying they're a powerhouse, shutdown defensive team, only that the Team D has improved big-time. It has.

 

Does that mean they're PO-bound? Doubtful because they've already buried themselves pretty deeply. Even this early in the season because it's very hard now to make up points. With the SO point everything has changed. It's hard to gain ground and the Flyers may already have taken themselves out of the running. We'll see.