caught up to us tonight

[Jam1986]

Our goalies bailing us out! Raffi has to go down McGinn up. Playing better d but also very sloppy. Trades after Christmas all but Mason up for grabs!

[brelic]

Our goalies bailing us out! Raffi has to go down McGinn up. Playing better d but also very sloppy. Trades after Christmas all but Mason up for grabs!

I'm thinking we may see some before the trade freeze (Dec 19-27, I think).

I'm afraid of what kind of trade Homer might make. To me, he's a dead man walking with this garbage he assembled. They had a 6-0-1 stretch where they were actually enjoyable to watch... now they're back to the early season form.

[Bertmega]

@brelic

 

They need a solid 1st line winger for Giroux, plain and simple....I don't know how or what they will offer to get that piece of the puzzle. With VLC here for a while, I'd be inclined to dangle the Schenn brothers and see what they can return. #22 is a train wreck and #10 is not being used properly. I'd like to keep #10 and move VLC and #22 to see what that could net, but sadly not too many takers out there. 

 

I agree a move is brewing in the air. 

[brelic]

@brelic

 

They need a solid 1st line winger for Giroux, plain and simple....I don't know how or what they will offer to get that piece of the puzzle. With VLC here for a while, I'd be inclined to dangle the Schenn brothers and see what they can return. #22 is a train wreck and #10 is not being used properly. I'd like to keep #10 and move VLC and #22 to see what that could net, but sadly not too many takers out there. 

 

I agree a move is brewing in the air.

To me, moving Brayden Schenn would be repeating the same mistake we made when we moved JVR. He's basically the only top 6 goal scorer we have. VLC is playing well, but his best days are behind him, and he's on the decline. We can't count on production from him moving forward.

An established top line winger would cost a lot. What would you realistically give up for a guy like Ryan, Vanek, Carter?

A young prospect might cost more or less. Yakupov could command a high price because of the untapped potential, and they don't *need* to move him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Flyers waste resources to get a guy like Erat.

[Bertmega]

@brelic

 

"o me, moving Brayden Schenn would be repeating the same mistake we made when we moved JVR." 100% agree and #10 Schenn should not be moved, but the way Holmgren probably sees it, he is being utilized incorrectly therefore expendable. I would instantly hate that trade. VLC has too long of a contract, but just doesn't fit the make up of this team at all. If they can move him, I would in a heartbeat.

 

I think by top winger, they are going to have to scour the scouting department a little. Maybe not so much as a household name, but a Ville Leino 2.0 (circa 2010) type player that can hang on the top line and fill the void that Giroux is missing. I'd keep Voracek, but move him down to the second line. 

 

"I wouldn't be surprised to see the Flyers waste resources to get a guy like Erat. "

 

100% agree and I was thinking the same thing. 

[fanaticV3.0]

@brelic

 

They need a solid 1st line winger for Giroux, plain and simple....I don't know how or what they will offer to get that piece of the puzzle. With VLC here for a while, I'd be inclined to dangle the Schenn brothers and see what they can return. #22 is a train wreck and #10 is not being used properly. I'd like to keep #10 and move VLC and #22 to see what that could net, but sadly not too many takers out there. 

 

I agree a move is brewing in the air. 

 

You're the second person I've seen say this in the last two days and a few more said that in the last few weeks. Why people want to move Brayden is beyond my powers of comprehension. In the last few years they've traded Richards, Carter, and JVR. It's generally ok because they have a bunch of youth who have taken their place. But why you want to abandon one of those guys already, I just don't get, especially him. He's one of your top six players, one of the few guys who was producing when the team was at rock bottom, and you want to move him? That makes no sense to me at all.

[fanaticV3.0]

Our goalies bailing us out! Raffi has to go down McGinn up. Playing better d but also very sloppy. Trades after Christmas all but Mason up for grabs!

 

I can't take anymore of Raffl. He has no business being in the line up. I don't care about how he cycles the puck, chances he creates, or some other little thing he does, that fourth line doesn't produce enough to warrant that many guys who bring no production to the table. It's almost as if sometimes people think your fourth line has to be filled with guys who do "nothing". There's no point to having a fourth line if they don't do anything. I don't get why they don't try and make the line better? Let McGinn play for Christ's sake.

[Bertmega]

@fanaticV3.0

 

I do not want to trade Schenn, but to get a top winger for Giroux you have to give to get. Right now the #22 Schenn is lost in the sauce and may not find his way here. To package him may be the only way to get value in return.

 

Again, from my fantasy standpoint, if a team would take VLC and #22 for a decent winger that can help the Flyers top line be an actual threat than I am all for it. However, most teams would want #10 Schenn before VLC. Not that VLC is chopped meat, he is getting older, injured, and his contract goes out too far. 

 

I am not hating on the guy (#10) and I see his value, that's why I put out a "realistic" trade idea. 

Edited December 3, 2013 by Bertmega

[mojo1917]

I don't see McGinn as an answer to any of what ails the Flyers, he may turn into a decent player, and i do appreciate his willingness to drop the gloves and play greasey.  But IMO Raffl is more talented , he has better speed , a more explosive shot from a quicker release.  with the current construct of the team, Raffle is not blocking McGinn they don't project to be the same type player.

 

McGinn had an opportunity early on and didn't skate or put out max effort during his ice time.  He absolutely must be 110% to stick in the NHL with where he is in his development, there is no earth shattering talent to Tye's game that makes it hard for a coach to bury him on the bench or send him to the A if he's not busting his ass.

Edited December 3, 2013 by mojo1917

[radoran]

@fanaticV3.0

 

Could not agree more. We have a bunch of underachieving forwards and the solution proposed is to ship out the top performer of them to get someone in to compliment the underachievers?

 

I don't get that at all.

 

I understand "give to get" as Bert notes, but the Flyers have given, given, given and really haven't gotten all that much.

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0

 

I do not want to trade Schenn, but to get a top winger for Giroux you have to give to get. Right now the #22 Schenn is lost in the sauce and may not find his way here. To package him may be the only way to get value in return.

 

Again, from my fantasy standpoint, if a team would take VLC and #22 for a decent winger that can help the Flyers top line be an actual threat than I am all for it. However, most teams would want #10 Schenn before VLC. Not that VLC is chopped meat, he is getting older, injured, and his contract goes out too far. 

 

I am not hating on the guy (#10) and I see his value, that's why I put out a "realistic" trade idea. 

 

Ok, first of all, VLC is 22 games into his Flyer career. He's not going anywhere right now, so if we're talking "realistic" trade ideas trading him isn't one of them. The ink on his contract is barely dry, they expect him to be one to be one of the top contributors, and he actually is.  I get that they need a winger to play with G. I don't disagree even a little. I like him, but he clearly needs somebody to get more mileage out of him. But trading your #2 or 3 scorers isn't the way to go about it, especially when they were arguably the only forwards doing anything when the team was horrible. .

 

I'd happily trade away Laughton before anyone from the roster. Laughton is a non-factor right now. Some say there's not even a spot on the team for him. Or if I had to choose between Schenn or Couturier, I choose to keep the guy in the top 6.

[brelic]

Right now the #22 Schenn is lost in the sauce and may not find his way here.

I don't think he's lost in the sauce... I think that's just what Luke Schenn is. He may get better over the next few years, but defensemen of his type (hard-hitting, stay at home defensemen) usually hit their ceiling earlier than PMD. I think WYSIWYG with Luke.

[fanaticV3.0]

I don't see McGinn as an answer to any of what ails the Flyers, he may turn into a decent player, and i do appreciate his willingness to drop the gloves and play greasey.  But IMO Raffl is more talented , he has better speed , a more explosive shot from a quicker release.  with the current construct of the team, Raffle is not blocking McGinn they don't project to be the same type player.

 

McGinn had an opportunity early on and didn't skate or put out max effort during his ice time.  He absolutely must be 110% to stick in the NHL with where he is in his development, there is no earth shattering talent to Tye's game that makes it hard for a coach to bury him on the bench or send him to the A if he's not busting his ass.

 

In 18 games last year, McGinn had 5 points. In 6 this year, he has 3. In 15 games, Raffl has 1 point. Please tell me how the hell he is more talented and McGinn somehow hasn't put out enough effort? So Raffl tries harder, but still produces less? Yippee!

 

This team has struggle to score goals this year. Why is Raffl more value to that kind of team than McGinn?

Edited December 3, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[Bertmega]

xxx-xxxxxxxx-x-xxx-xxxxxx x- xxxx-xx

Edited December 3, 2013 by Bertmega

[DaGreatGazoo]

VLC has a no movement clause.  He's not going anywhere.  Now or in the foreseeable future.  

 

Regarding McGinn, 2 coaches have declined to keep him in the NHL.  I have no idea why, but there has to be some reason-even if it's a reason we don't like.  Any ideas?  

[radoran]

You mean we can't trade Luke Schenn straight up for a Top 6 forward* who could score 30+?

I mean, what damn fool would?

 

 

 

* from New Jersey

[mojo1917]

@fanaticV3.0

 

I watch both players and see that Raffl has more talent.

 

that is not to say that i don't think McGinn is a total stiff, i like the kind of game he plays, but he doesn't have great hands, his goals this year bounced off his goddamned shin pads.

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of Raffl either, i just don't see where he is blocking McGinn, 

you want to make the arguement that Rosehill is blocking McGinn? there is a starting point to that discussion.

 

Edit: I am not the coach either, so ultimately Laviolette and Berube have made the determination that McGinn isn't ready for the NHL at different times. Berube has stated specifically this season that McGinn needs to work harder, and I guess he didn't see what he is/was looking for from him.

Edited December 3, 2013 by mojo1917

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0

 

Could not agree more. We have a bunch of underachieving forwards and the solution proposed is to ship out the top performer of them to get someone in to compliment the underachievers?

 

I don't get that at all.

 

I understand "give to get" as Bert notes, but the Flyers have given, given, given and really haven't gotten all that much.

 

I think I'd listen to offers for Laughton though. Since he's not on the roster, the team currently has G, VLC, and Couturier at cetner, Schenn might be there one day, there's no spot for him right now (and might not be unless you move one of the other guys). Personally, I'd rather move him than move one of the other guys to make room for him.

[Phlyer1]

Goalies love shots from the blue line as they have plenty of time to react. Flyers bread and butter is at the net with Hartnall or Simmonds in front of the net. Dornhoffer wherefore art thou?

 

As somebody posted earlier Voracek needs to sit one or two out.

 

First line is he Hoyudini line they do a disappearing act too often.

[FreakinFlyersFan]

VLC has a no movement clause.  He's not going anywhere.  Now or in the foreseeable future.  

 

Regarding McGinn, 2 coaches have declined to keep him in the NHL.  I have no idea why, but there has to be some reason-even if it's a reason we don't like.  Any ideas?  

Plus the fact that VLC has the most goals on the team right now but by all means lets trade our top producer for some garbage. Hartnell has to  be bounced off Giroux's line, no chemistry there and bump up Read or Schenn, put Harts on 3rd or 4th line. Please for the love of God send Raffl back and give us McGinn, why the management doesn't bring him up doesn't make sense but not making sense is a norm for the Flyers brass. I still have no idea why this team can only score in spurts...given up on figuring this out with all these talented young players. Last night they looked like a PeeWee hockey team.

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0

 

I watch both players and see that Raffl has more talent.

 

that is not to say that i don't think McGinn is a total stiff, i like the kind of game he plays, but he doesn't have great hands, his goals this year bounced off his goddamned shin pads.

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of Raffl either, i just don't see where he is blocking McGinn, 

you want to make the arguement that Rosehill is blocking McGinn? there is a starting point to that discussion.

 

Edit: I am not the coach either, so ultimately Laviolette and Berube have made the determination that McGinn isn't ready for the NHL at different times. Berube has stated specifically this season that McGinn needs to work harder, and I guess he didn't see what he is/was looking for from him.

 

You might want to see the eye doctor, because that talent hasn't led to **** Ok, it's let do slightly more than **** he does have 1 assist. I was being unfair. The guy is Thoresen all over again.

 

I don't think McGinn is going to set the world on fire, but when your team is struggling to score goals, just about nobody on your fourth line is doing anything spectacular, why not play a kid who has produced in the little bit of time he's been given?

Edited December 3, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[fanaticV3.0]

xxx-xxxxxxxx-x-xxx-xxxxxx x- xxxx-xx

 

Thanks for that. Very well-said. You've actually changed my mind on the subject.

[murraycraven]

I think they all suck w/ the exception of Mason...   It would be negligent to not listen to any and all trade offers at this point.  This Team is not going to change it's fortune with one trade.   This is just a poorly constructed Team and the tuth of the matter is we are dealing from a weak position. 

 

How the hell would want our players and the contracts that come along with them?   The only viable trade bait is our prospects (laughton, morin, hagg and gus) or our youth.   I have suggested dangling the schenn bothers as well.  Do I want to trade B Schenn?  No, but it does not hurt to see if anyone is willing to overpay.  

 

Regardless... this Team is what it is and no single trade is going to make them a playoff contender.   Homer's gambles are catching up and we are in for a bumpy ride.

[mojo1917]

You might want to see the eye doctor, because that talent hasn't led to **** Ok, it's let do slightly more than **** he does have 1 assist. I was being unfair. The guy is Thoresen all over again.

 

I don't think McGinn is going to set the world on fire, but when your team is struggling to score goals, just about nobody on your fourth line is doing anything spectacular, why not play a kid who has produced in the little bit of time he's been given?

my eye sight is fine, thanks.

keep ignoring my point though, because that makes communicating with you fun.

Raffl is not keeping McGinn off the roster.

McGinn is keeping McGinn off the roster. he has 5 points in 15 games and is -5 in Adirondak . yes by all means lets bring him up to do what ? 

[fanaticV3.0]

my eye sight is fine, thanks.

keep ignoring my point though, because that makes communicating with you fun.

Raffl is not keeping McGinn off the roster.

McGinn is keeping McGinn off the roster. he has 5 points in 15 games and is -5 in Adirondak . yes by all means lets bring him up to do what ? 

 

Lol, you throw that out there like it's some kind of validation for playing Raffl. You're hanging your hat on a guy that has 1 assist in 15 games. That's not to say McGinn has set the world on fire, but your more impressed with a guy who has produced less because you "see" things in him. I've had turds more solid than that argument.