Next year defense

[brelic]

All these defensemen threads got me thinking about what next year's blueline could look like.

 

Here's what we have now.

 

 

Timonen, Kimmo » $6,000,000 UFA

 

Streit, Mark » 35+ $5,250,000 $5,250,000 $5,250,000 $5,250,000 UFA

 

Pronger, Chris » 35+ LTIR $4,941,429 $4,941,429 $4,941,429 $4,941,429 UFA

 

Coburn, Braydon » $4,500,000 $4,500,000 $4,500,000 UFA

 

Meszaros, Andrej » $4,000,000 UFA

 

Schenn, Luke » $3,600,000 $3,600,000 $3,600,000 UFA

 

Grossmann, N. » $3,500,000 $3,500,000 $3,500,000 UFA

 

Gustafsson, Erik » $1,000,000 RFA

 

Gill, Hal » $700,000 UFA

 

Bourdon, M. » LTIR $612,500 RFA

 

The bolded players are UFAs after this year.

 

So right now, it would look like:

 

Streit/Coburn

Schenn/Grossman

Gus/Bourdon (assuming they're both qualified)

 

In the pipeline, we'd have Lauridsen, Alt, Manning, and Ghost as realistic 5/6/7 defensemen. Less likely are Morin and Hagg, though certain not impossible.

 

The upper-tier UFA crop looks like Boyle, Timonen, Meszaros, Zidlicky, Morris, Orpik, Girardi, Hainsey, Markov, Pitkanen, Salo, Niskanen.

 

Knowing all of this, what would you like to see on the blueline? 

 

I wouldn't have a problem with resigning Meszaros for a year or two at a lower salary. Looking at that defense next year, he would bring a sorely lacking element of puck movement and offense, defensive lapses notwithstanding. I see it as 'devil you know' kinda deal. 

 

Of course, if that's the case, then there's really no room for our homegrown talent, which is a shame. We never develop defensemen because we never trust them enough to stick them in the lineup as a legitimate option. They're always just plan Z.

 

Streit/Coburn as a top pairing is ok. It's the 2nd pairing that scares me. There's a whole lot of inertia on that line.

 

What say you, Flyers fans?

[doom88]

Streit/Coburn, Mesz/Schenn, Gus/Grossmann if possible. I'd like to spread out the stay at home guys, and I think my third pair could have natural communication and chemistry.

Now, if a defenseman wins a spot out of training camp (Bourdon?), I'd try to trade Grossmann. I don't like his contract and foot speed / agility.

[brelic]

Streit/Coburn, Mesz/Schenn, Gus/Grossmann if possible. I'd like to spread out the stay at home guys, and I think my third pair could have natural communication and chemistry.

Now, if a defenseman wins a spot out of training camp (Bourdon?), I'd try to trade Grossmann. I don't like his contract and foot speed / agility.

Yeah, I like those combos.

Meszaros is only 28, and a 2/3 year deal would be reasonable. If he can stay healthy, he's good for 30-35 points and makes things happen by getting involved in the play.

I hear ya about Grossman... but I actually prefer him to Schenn. Grossman blocks a ton of shots, and hits almost as much as Schenn.

[ZeZel25]

All these defensemen threads got me thinking about what next year's blueline could look like.

 

Here's what we have now.

 

 

 

The bolded players are UFAs after this year.

 

So right now, it would look like:

 

Streit/Coburn

Schenn/Grossman

Gus/Bourdon (assuming they're both qualified)

 

In the pipeline, we'd have Lauridsen, Alt, Manning, and Ghost as realistic 5/6/7 defensemen. Less likely are Morin and Hagg, though certain not impossible.

 

The upper-tier UFA crop looks like Boyle, Timonen, Meszaros, Zidlicky, Morris, Orpik, Girardi, Hainsey, Markov, Pitkanen, Salo, Niskanen.

 

Knowing all of this, what would you like to see on the blueline? 

 

I wouldn't have a problem with resigning Meszaros for a year or two at a lower salary. Looking at that defense next year, he would bring a sorely lacking element of puck movement and offense, defensive lapses notwithstanding. I see it as 'devil you know' kinda deal. 

 

Of course, if that's the case, then there's really no room for our homegrown talent, which is a shame. We never develop defensemen because we never trust them enough to stick them in the lineup as a legitimate option. They're always just plan Z.

 

Streit/Coburn as a top pairing is ok. It's the 2nd pairing that scares me. There's a whole lot of inertia on that line.

 

What say you, Flyers fans?

I don't see L. Schenn being here next year. Somebody on the current D of Coburn,Grossmann or Luke will be traded IMO.

[fanaticV3.0]

All these defensemen threads got me thinking about what next year's blueline could look like.

 

Here's what we have now.

 

 

 

The bolded players are UFAs after this year.

 

So right now, it would look like:

 

Streit/Coburn

Schenn/Grossman

Gus/Bourdon (assuming they're both qualified)

 

In the pipeline, we'd have Lauridsen, Alt, Manning, and Ghost as realistic 5/6/7 defensemen. Less likely are Morin and Hagg, though certain not impossible.

 

The upper-tier UFA crop looks like Boyle, Timonen, Meszaros, Zidlicky, Morris, Orpik, Girardi, Hainsey, Markov, Pitkanen, Salo, Niskanen.

 

Knowing all of this, what would you like to see on the blueline? 

 

I wouldn't have a problem with resigning Meszaros for a year or two at a lower salary. Looking at that defense next year, he would bring a sorely lacking element of puck movement and offense, defensive lapses notwithstanding. I see it as 'devil you know' kinda deal. 

 

Of course, if that's the case, then there's really no room for our homegrown talent, which is a shame. We never develop defensemen because we never trust them enough to stick them in the lineup as a legitimate option. They're always just plan Z.

 

Streit/Coburn as a top pairing is ok. It's the 2nd pairing that scares me. There's a whole lot of inertia on that line.

 

What say you, Flyers fans?

 

Streit has played better lately, but I don't like him on the top line at all. Someone with that little ability in his own end in your top two doesn't sit well to me.

 

I want nothing to do with Mezaros.

 

If I'm in charge, my #1 priority is defense. They need a winger too, but the defense is a bigger priority. I'd be willing to part with a high-level prospect if a legit #1 was available, but until then I might just fill the gaps with vets and give the youth a chance.

[doom88]

Yeah, I like those combos.

Meszaros is only 28, and a 2/3 year deal would be reasonable. If he can stay healthy, he's good for 30-35 points and makes things happen by getting involved in the play.

I hear ya about Grossman... but I actually prefer him to Schenn. Grossman blocks a ton of shots, and hits almost as much as Schenn.

I think Schenn has upside still. I'm worrying Grossmann is starting an abrupt decline in effectiveness. Just eye test stuff, no stats to back any of it up.

[brelic]

Streit has played better lately, but I don't like him on the top line at all. Someone with that little ability in his own end in your top two doesn't sit well to me.

 

I want nothing to do with Mezaros.

 

If I'm in charge, my #1 priority is defense. They need a winger too, but the defense is a bigger priority. I'd be willing to part with a high-level prospect if a legit #1 was available, but until then I might just fill the gaps with vets and give the youth a chance.

I'm just not sure which team would dangle a legit #1. The only reason I can see a team doing that is if they have another one (better, younger, cheaper, or some combination of those three). I guess the other scenario is a young struggling *potential* #1, like a Tyler Myers, or Zach Bogosian. But isn't that what we already traded for in Luke Schenn? And we're seeing that someone else's dog poo doesn't look any different in Philly.

I'm with you, though... I would make a legitimate top defenseman my priority, but it's hard to imagine at this point how Homer would actually make that work.

[fanaticV3.0]

I'm just not sure which team would dangle a legit #1. The only reason I can see a team doing that is if they have another one (better, younger, cheaper, or some combination of those three). I guess the other scenario is a young struggling *potential* #1, like a Tyler Myers, or Zach Bogosian. But isn't that what we already traded for in Luke Schenn? And we're seeing that someone else's dog poo doesn't look any different in Philly.

I'm with you, though... I would make a legitimate top defenseman my priority, but it's hard to imagine at this point how Homer would actually make that work.

 

I'm not either. I don't have any names off the top of my head other than those early rumors - which seem to have disappeared - about Subban.

 

If they can't find a legit #1, I think they'd have to consider a plan B. Maybe a couple of good, but not great players, and give guys like Gus and Bourdon a shot to fill in the rest of the spots?

[RonJeremy]

Of the UFAs , Girardi, is hands down the best shutdown guy available and one of the best in the league, he is also not too old, most of the other dmen are over the hill and not worth the contracts they will be seeking. If were to sign Girardi, then Schenn or Grossman would be surely traded. The best offensive dmen, who are not that old are ...Niskanen and Pitkanen. We are severely lacking in skating, shooting and playmaking skill on the blueline. I do not see us having Streit as our only offensive weapon on the blueline, our transition game is not good and without Timmo, our PP and puck rushing is even worse. So maybe we sign Girardi, who will cost a lot. and then dump Schenn or Grossman,to make up some cap space. We would still need to try to add a little finesse to the blueline, by signing a guy like Pitkanen for a cheap contract since he has been out injured, he's not in a top bargaining position. If we can re-sign Mez for a reasonable price,then I would also do that. You can never have enough defense.

If we go with the blueline you guys listed,we are one injury away from disaster, what if Streit got hurt,he's an old coot already, who would rush the puck, who would run the PP..our defense is slow, immobile and not highly skilled as it is. So, to be quite honest we need a guy with puck skills more than anything, but Girardi is a top notch shutdown guy.. So maybe we do this....

Sign Girardi , which will be a long term high contract, sign Mez for a low 2 year deal...then we turn around and trade Schenn or Grossman and Laugton for a young offensive dman, and if that doesn't work, we will be forced to sign a guy like Pitkanen for a couple of years until we have an offensively skilled dman. We need some SKILL and youth on the blue line more than anything

[aziz]

sign a guy like Pitkanen

 

i just can't be ok with this.

[RonJeremy]

@aziz....I understand your point with Pitkanen, but unless we make a trade, we need to get a skating dman with puck skills from somewhere. Since he was hurt, he can't demand too much or too long a contract. We may need a stop gap puck rusher until we can trade for one or hope that Ghost or Haag become that guy.

I don't see Homer sitting around for 2-3 years waiting for one of our draft picks, to emerge and be our offensive dman. We have 2 routes we can go, either a trade ,which means giving up one of our young centers or signing one or two UFA defenseman. We are losing Timmo and we need an offensive dman. Unfortunately that's the reality.

[aziz]

@RonJeremy

 

i get it, and it even makes sense, but....i can't be ok with him in a flyers uniform again, no matter how he might be the best option.  he seriously is the single dumbest hockey player outside of a league specifically consisting of the dumbest hockey players in the world.  really, dealing with him on the team the first time around, i can't do that again.

[RonJeremy]

Lol, I hear ya. Pitkanen may be our only option for a skating defenseman.I have been waiting for us to draft a great defenseman for so many years. Back in the day, Behn Wilson was my favorite player, what a combination of size, skill and toughness. He should have been a hall of famer, but the fans ran him outta town, and he did have a few loose screws.To me , Wilson was the most skilled defenseman we ever drafted. I'm just so tired of always trading for defense. We have passed on some good ones over the years , Stevens, we picked Sutter, Seabrooke , we picked Carter and Richards, and Hamilton, we picked Coots. All our best guys were trades, Howe , Desjardins , Pronger ....hopefully Morin will turn out to be the superstar dman we have needed for years.

[AndyS]

I just can't wait to see all the kids brought up to the big club.  Both of the kids from last year's draft and Ghost.

[jammer2]

I just can't wait to see all the kids brought up to the big club.  Both of the kids from last year's draft and Ghost.

 

 I think Ghost will need a year or so in the AHL to get used to the physical aspects of the NHL. A year in the A would do him wonders. It is exciting to have some legit youngsters in the pipeline. Of the other two, I have a feeling Hagg will progress the quickest, just because he plays against men now and might be the most ready to step in and contribute  right away due to his already strong two way game. I'm holding out hope Bourdon will battle for a spot, I'm a fan of his skill set, maybe even a cheaper replacement for Grossmann, should they look to deal him. Perhaps Morin gets sent back to jr's for his final year...hard to say...but no need to rush any of these kids.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I think Ron Jeremy's assessment is spot on. This D has limited mobility and I am afraid Berube's system of tight checking is already limiting our solid forwards' ability to attack. We have too many short-term  defensive lapses because our D is simply not capable of restraining people like Tavares. Maybe Bourdon makes a miracle comeback to fill a position.  Mason and Emery (or his replacement) are OK. Our forwards are fine. This D is our Achilles heel. 

 

Howie

[aziz]

, Desjardins ,

 

if i had to really think about it, though, that was maybe the best trade the flyers ever made, and the most effective player the flyers have had this side of the 70's.  trade is a valid route to take, if the return is right.  

 

pitkanen can't spell desjardins.  (neither can i, thank you, google, for your best fit search returns) 

[doom88]

Do you ask about Tyler Myers (potential #1 project), or a Subban (#1, shady defense), or go fish? I'd rather stick with 2s and try to play all 6 as responsibly even as possible. The grass is not always greener...