radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Meltzers-Musings-Bitter-Pill-Power-Outage-Shero-and-More/45/58630 The more I see Lecavalier struggle this season -- both in terms of keeping up with the play and in getting on the wrong side of the puck defensively and not getting back -- the more I think his role needs to reduced to that of a fourth line player at even strength who is basically a power play specialist. He is still dangerous when he has the puck in the right circle to shoot or else draws multiple defenders and dishes the puck to an open teammate. Otherwise, he has been ineffective ever since the back injury. fourth liner, power play specialist, aging star? Didn't they just buy out that guy? @OccamsRazor posted the next bit in the shoutbox from http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thread.php?thread_id=115588&page=1. Per Bill M.: Lecavalier can't play the LW at all and isn't as effective on RW as at C. But with B. Schenn also better at center and Lecavalier struggling defensively in one-on-one matchups, it creates a real dilemma about where and with whom to play Lecavalier. Berube has all but come and said it directly a couple times -- he dances around it in the most thinly veiled of ways. The truth is that the most effective way to maximize Lecavalier offensively would be to move Giroux back to a wing for the first time in years and have Lecavalier center the top line "in years" is all of 2010-2011 - the Dark Ages, putting aside the idea that a guy who hadn't played center prior to that is the "natural center" that most people on CSN seem to think he is. Obviously, I've been a vocal proponent of VLC centering Giroux since the signing happened. I don't understand the slavish need to keep Giroux as #1 C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 How absurd is it that within the very first year of a signing many people didn't understand and contract many people didn't like, the player is being talked about as a FOURTH liner? I honestly think the Flyers should try to move him or buy him out and deal with the cap penalty. That Schenn line has been next to useless since VLC returned, and it broke up a really productive one (Simmer/Schenn/Hartnell). There's really only one place for him, and that's the top line. You gotta hope that he doesn't drag down G and Jake too much. Because I guarantee that they won't play him on the 4th line even if that's where he belongs. Man, what a self-inflicted disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The truth is that the most effective way to maximize Lecavalier offensively would be to move Giroux back to a wing for the first time in years and have Lecavalier center the top line I'm all for this...would this relegate Hartnell to the 4th...try it. VLC has more creativity with the puck than Hartnell i've watched him kill chance after chance with Jake and G all the work they have done to keep the puck in the offensive zone for only Hartnell to touch it and just turn the damn this over with his puck bobbling tired of it drop him down....Flyers are sitting in the 8th seed and can't afford to waste more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) How absurd is it that within the very first year of a signing many people didn't understand and contract many people didn't like, the player is being talked about as a FOURTH liner?I honestly think the Flyers should try to move him or buy him out and deal with the cap penalty. That Schenn line has been next to useless since VLC returned, and it broke up a really productive one (Simmer/Schenn/Hartnell).There's really only one place for him, and that's the top line. You gotta hope that he doesn't drag down G and Jake too much. Because I guarantee that they won't play him on the 4th line even if that's where he belongs.Man, what a self-inflicted disaster. Sorry but that isn't an option anymore since that was spent on Bryz and Danny B. That is what had so many (me included) pissed they get out of two bad contracts only to turn around and sign two more with Streit and VLC............it's maddening!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited March 12, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Sorry but that isn't an option anymore since that was spent on Bryz and Danny B. Well, they do have the traditional buyout route from teh capgeek: Vincent Lecavalier buyout from CapGeek.com2014-15: -$125,0002015-16: $1,375,0002016-17: $2,875,0002017-18: $2,875,0002018-19: $1,375,0002019-20: $1,375,0002020-21: $1,375,0002021-22: $1,375,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well, they do have the traditional buyout route from teh capgeek: Vincent Lecavalier buyout from CapGeek.com2014-15: -$125,0002015-16: $1,375,0002016-17: $2,875,0002017-18: $2,875,0002018-19: $1,375,0002019-20: $1,375,0002020-21: $1,375,0002021-22: $1,375,000 OOOOOOCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me no likey!!!!!!!!! Has to be a better option.....would love for them to trade him....isn't anyone besides the Flyers dumb enough for a move like that....anyone????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 OOOOOOCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me no likey!!!!!!!!! Has to be a better option.....would love for them to trade him....isn't anyone besides the Flyers dumb enough for a move like that....anyone????? That's actually not too bad. Not great, but manageable. Of course, we know in reality that it won't happen. A trade is the best bet, and I would put the likelihood of that happening at about 20%. ANd if it were to happen, it would be at a significant discount because a) he has an NMC (of course he does), and b) his value is very low based on his play. So, instead, we're going to trade away either Brayden Schenn or Laughton (this will happen) to make room for Vinny as 2nd line center until Coots is ready to take over that role, and Vinny moves to 3rd line center until the contract is up or he retires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Trade him back to Tampa and retain some salary. Edited March 12, 2014 by DaGreatGazoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 He is either still hurt, or worse, doesn't want the puck. You can't fix heart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well the good news is, with the Hartnell, VLC and Streit contracts already in place, Holmgren can't sign anyone else to a ridiculously stupid contract until July 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well the good news is, with the Hartnell, VLC and Streit contracts already in place, Holmgren can't sign anyone else to a ridiculously stupid contract until July 1st. Andrew MacDonald's agent thinks differently, I'm sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 @brelic Maybe I should re-word that to "new ridiculously stupid contracts can't kick in until July 1st". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Has to be a better option.....would love for them to trade him....isn't anyone besides the Flyers dumb enough for a move like that....anyone????? Anyone dumb enough for a move like that that Lecavalier will accept a trade to? Hmmmm.... Honestly, the buyout isn't the most painful thing in the world. Probably less painful than watching VLC on the ice at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well the good news is, with the Hartnell, VLC and Streit contracts already in place, Holmgren can't sign anyone else to a ridiculously stupid contract until July 1st. Andrew MacDonald's agent thinks differently, I'm sure Homer does have to have the room for an extension - I forget the jibber jabber gobbeldy gook about it. It's one reason why, IIRC, Carle "couldn't" be signed - there wasn't enough room. Until the cap goes up/off season exemption, I don't think the Flyers can be extending guys. They can verbally agree, I believe, but nothing is official. Which shouldn't be a problem, because players know Homer's a man of his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Anyone dumb enough for a move like that that Lecavalier will accept a trade to? Hmmmm.... Honestly, the buyout isn't the most painful thing in the world. Probably less painful than watching VLC on the ice at this point. Can't see it....then that would be Homer admitting a mistake. Can't see him doing that especially with his job on the line...again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can't see it....then that would be Homer admitting a mistake. Can't see him doing that especially with his job on the line...again. He just admitted a nine-year, $56 million mistake (I think the Briere buyout was the plan from Day One - compliance or not - but that's me). Snider obviously doesn't care and Comcast apparently doesn't either. You honestly think Homer's job is on the line? 'cause I don't. Not that it shouldn't be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 So, VLC is the new Bryz as the punching bag? Just want be on board with who we have to trash.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 He is either still hurt, or worse, doesn't want the puck. You can't fix heart. You said it right there Doom and I agree... He might go down as one of the worst acquisitions by Homer. He has been terrible and the I want to believe he is hurt but he is just flat-out bad. I mentioned in another post his "spinorama" move last night on the 2-1... what the hell was that? Looks like he is afraid to carry the puck! Nice work Homer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 He just admitted a nine-year, $56 million mistake (I think the Briere buyout was the plan from Day One - compliance or not - but that's me). Snider obviously doesn't care and Comcast apparently doesn't either. You honestly think Homer's job is on the line? 'cause I don't. Not that it shouldn't be... I dont believe for a minute that Homer is on the hot seat. there are too many excuses for Snider to fall back on again this year... we played great down the stretch, we had a terrible start and would have yadda, yadda, yadda... Homer is here next year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) He just admitted a nine-year, $56 million mistake That is my point. Too soon. If say that was 5 years from now. Ok then it would be easier Just too soon it would look good to his employer.But spread over time it is part of the job i mean come on Homer isn't the only one who bombs look around the league i mean just look at what Snow is doing on the Isle. But to me it's like real life...it's a the frequency that it happens.......and it's too much for my liking. It just doesn't make sense why he had to sign him. If say a center was injured before the season i'd understand but even still not for 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited March 12, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) So for kicks, I went and looked at VLC's stat line. 26 points(14G, 12A), in 52 games...okay not horrible. However, 11 of those 26 are on the PP(7G and 4A). So in 52 games, he has 15 even strength points. YIKES. Additionally, he's -17 year to date...... Then there's this: including a FULL NMC. The contract is bad enough, and many of us on here said so at the time. Given his lack of productions, it's downright brutal at this point. 2013-14 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $4,000,000 $4,500,000 2014-15 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $2,000,000 $4,500,000 2015-16 $4,500,000 $4,500,000 $0 $2,000,000 $4,500,000 2016-17 $3,000,000 $3,000,000 $0 $500,000 $4,500,000 2017-18 $3,000,000 $3,000,000 $0 $0 $4,500,000 Edited March 12, 2014 by DaGreatGazoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 So, VLC is the new Bryz as the punching bag? Just want be on board with who we have to trash.... I think Meltzer is one of the better scribes following the team. This was his, unsolicited opinion and it seemed a worthwhile thread. It's not like there haven't been concerns expressed about VLC since the moment he was signed - concerns which in many ways have been borne out by experience. I found Meltzer's observation about putting VLC into the #1 C role to be an interesting one - one that I had advanced months ago. They've "tried" it for a few shifts but never for any length of time. The "punching bag" - if there must be one - should be the guy that made the move in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 But spread over time it is part of the job i mean come on Homer isn't the only one who bombs look around the league i mean just look at what Snow is doing on the Isle. Homer: I'm A Better GM Than Garth Snow Has Shero made boneheaded moves in Pittsburgh? How about Boston? Chicago? Los Angeles? The thing about guys that make boneheaded moves - and I'm looking at Buffalo, Columbus and Atlanta for starters - is that they don't keep their jobs forever. I think we might see some significant change in Vancouver and Brooklyn as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Homer: I'm A Better GM Than Garth Snow™ LOL! That is going straight to my signature line Rad! well played... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I dont believe for a minute that Homer is on the hot seat. there are too many excuses for Snider to fall back on again this year... we played great down the stretch, we had a terrible start and would have yadda, yadda, yadda... Homer is here next year... If the Flyers don't make the playoffs, which is a very real possibility, I think Homer's gone. It fits, and it gives the right cover for a 'transition' to Hextall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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