Round 1 - Sharks vs Kings

[J0e Th0rnton]

It honestly looked like nothing special to me, but you could tell he was in lala land from the hit. It was followed up with a little elbow to the back of the head as a cherry on top.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Upon watching it again, I still don't know what to make of it. He must have hit him in just the right spot or something because the hit itself did not look all that bad. The elbow was a bit much of a follow up obviously.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGJ10UXytH8

[J0e Th0rnton]

NOW The Kings are capable of pulling this off.  I liked them to win this series and I still do

Now that Stoll elbowed out one of the league's top defensemen?

[Polaris922]

The elbow deserves a review. That has to be what does the damage.

[J0e Th0rnton]

http://www.hockeyforums.net/index.php/blog/61/entry-636-game-6-will-stalock-start-will-vlasic-play/

 

My blog entry for tonight's game.

 

Further notes I did not have at the time include the fact that Stalock was one of the first guys off the ice at practice. Apparently, he is usually the last off the ice if he knows he is backup, but leaves quicker if he knows he is starting.

 

Tmac has made no comments regarding Vlasic since the post game presser, and the only news was he was not at practice. My hope is, he will play tonight. He is crucial to our breakout and transition game, and our PK and 5 on 5 defensive play.

 

 

 

Do it for the Children!!!!!

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton

[J0e Th0rnton]

Put a fork in San Jose.  The cream is a risin

[yave1964]

Stalock in net seems like a panic move to me. Niemi has not been the reason that the Kings have won the past two games. Game four maybe, but game five was all about Quick.

I do not believe that they can win a cup with Stalock in net, period end of discussion. No way no how. Niemi, sure. I do not understand this at all.

I had Niemi on my fantasy team, sure, he was not great this year but he won what, 40 something games? Stalock was marvelous in a controlled environment as a backup but to me it would be like the Rangers handing the reigns to Talbot, who put up the same type of numbers or better than Stalock. Big, big mistake regardless of how the game works out. If they win, then where do you go from here against the Ducks? Do you keep riding Stalock or go back to Niemi? If you lose tonight, who do you start in game seven?

I love the Sharks organization and feel they have done a marvelous job of building a winner but Niemi is a big part of that IMHO and Stalock is a mere footnote. Bad move.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Stalock in net seems like a panic move to me. Niemi has not been the reason that the Kings have won the past two games. Game four maybe, but game five was all about Quick.

I do not believe that they can win a cup with Stalock in net, period end of discussion. No way no how. Niemi, sure. I do not understand this at all.

I had Niemi on my fantasy team, sure, he was not great this year but he won what, 40 something games? Stalock was marvelous in a controlled environment as a backup but to me it would be like the Rangers handing the reigns to Talbot, who put up the same type of numbers or better than Stalock. Big, big mistake regardless of how the game works out. If they win, then where do you go from here against the Ducks? Do you keep riding Stalock or go back to Niemi? If you lose tonight, who do you start in game seven?

I love the Sharks organization and feel they have done a marvelous job of building a winner but Niemi is a big part of that IMHO and Stalock is a mere footnote. Bad move.

Game 4 and 5, Niemi let in a few softies. Game 5 I blame the team as they just got walked over. But when a goaltender gets pulled 2 games in a row and the backup looks rock solid, I am behind the change.

 

As for the season, Niemi was bad this season. Stalock was actually put in against good teams to see how he would do, not only bad teams. I thought the same because I only caught 3 games with Stalock this year and apparently they were his 3 worst games, but a lot of sharks fans all year were calling on him to take the starter spot and I was wondering what they were smoking. Now that I am looking at the stats, Stalock looks good. Hell, he looked good the 2 times he replaced Niemi. He did not let a goal in in the 57 minutes he played. In the games I caught, I had not seen his puck handling skills and rebound control so I was wondering what Shark fans were gushing about with their 3rd Dman talk. His reflexes and athleticism also seem a cut above what I have seen from Niemi

 

But against playoff teams in games he started this season, Stalock was 6 wins, 2 losses, with a 1.63GAA and a 93.5% save percentage.

 

Niemi, to me having watched all 5 games, just is not instilling confidence in me, other than that OT win, where he showed flashes of brilliance, and I panic every time I see Niemi handle the puck or a shot coming from the point because he has no rebound control this season. Stalock looked great enough for me to want to see what he can do. You can feed me crow later if I am wrong, but I think this is the right move.

[yave1964]

@J0e Th0rnton

Let me be clear, I WANT the Sharks to beat the Kings. I like the way San Jose is built and the way they play offense. 4 lines that can score every night. My kind of hockey.

But the truth is the defense is pedestrian, and when you play end to end hockey with a average defense your goalie had better be sharp because that is the way it is going to be. I think you overrate Vlasic, I do not see every Shark game, maybe ten this year, quite frankly I hardly notice him which is what you are hoping for with a stay at home d-man but if he is clearly the best you have no matter who is in net is safe.

Stalock was solid, but again, so was Cam Talbot. Niemi was very average this year, but again so was Lundqvist. You gotta go with who got you there, IMHO. To me you live or die with Niemi and the move truthfully strikes me as panic.

Again, if you lose, who goes in game seven? If you win, who opens against the Ducks? A can of worms has been opened and I think it is the wrong time for it. It is not like Halak/Elliot or even Schneider/Luongo, it is cup winning star goalie Niemi against cannon fodder Stalock. I give you as a backup Stalock was solid. But no way no how would I have pulled Niemi and win or lose it is going to cost at some point this postseason.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@J0e Th0rnton

Let me be clear, I WANT the Sharks to beat the Kings. I like the way San Jose is built and the way they play offense. 4 lines that can score every night. My kind of hockey.

But the truth is the defense is pedestrian, and when you play end to end hockey with a average defense your goalie had better be sharp because that is the way it is going to be. I think you overrate Vlasic, I do not see every Shark game, maybe ten this year, quite frankly I hardly notice him which is what you are hoping for with a stay at home d-man but if he is clearly the best you have no matter who is in net is safe.

Stalock was solid, but again, so was Cam Talbot. Niemi was very average this year, but again so was Lundqvist. You gotta go with who got you there, IMHO. To me you live or die with Niemi and the move truthfully strikes me as panic.

Again, if you lose, who goes in game seven? If you win, who opens against the Ducks? A can of worms has been opened and I think it is the wrong time for it. It is not like Halak/Elliot or even Schneider/Luongo, it is cup winning star goalie Niemi against cannon fodder Stalock. I give you as a backup Stalock was solid. But no way no how would I have pulled Niemi and win or lose it is going to cost at some point this postseason.

Your kidding?

Vlasic is Nick Lidstrom without the higher end offense defensively. And I am quoting Babcock's interview there since people drew criticism for Vlasic over some other names for the Olympic gold.

 

After the Olympics, everybody knew who Vlasic was and were praising him

Edited April 28, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton

[yave1964]

Your kidding?

Vlasic is Nick Lidstrom without the higher end offense defensively. And I am quoting Babcock's interview there since people drew criticism for Vlasic over some other names for the Olympic gold.

 

After the Olympics, everybody knew who Vlasic was and were praising him

so saying Vlasic is Lidstrom without the offense is like saying a Dodge Challenger without the hemi and just a V-6 is just as good.

Look I am not ripping Vlasic, solid defense but not a lot else. You need guys like that. Rod Langway types. Hell, Langway won a couple of Norris trophies back when defense still mattered as to who won the award. But fact is his little 5 goals, 19 assists with the offense in front of him is really nothing to write home about.

Vlasic brings defense and no offense. Boyle offense and at his age not much defense. Brad Stuart hits people a couple of times a week and not much else. Braun shows sparks but is not there yet. Everyone on the Sharks blue line is flawed. Vlasic is to Lidstrom as a Charger with a V-6 is to a Challenger. A nice piece but no Lidstrom.

Rooting for your boys tonight.

[yave1964]

Demers is very much up and coming.

I feel like I am getting abrasive on here nearing trolling and I am not trying to. I love the Sharks, I would like to see them win the Cup even. Their forwards are amazing I just don't feel the defense is on par with the forwards, not even close. But the forwards are outstanding.

[J0e Th0rnton]

so saying Vlasic is Lidstrom without the offense is like saying a Dodge Challenger without the hemi and just a V-6 is just as good.

Look I am not ripping Vlasic, solid defense but not a lot else. You need guys like that. Rod Langway types. Hell, Langway won a couple of Norris trophies back when defense still mattered as to who won the award. But fact is his little 5 goals, 19 assists with the offense in front of him is really nothing to write home about.

Vlasic brings defense and no offense. Boyle offense and at his age not much defense. Brad Stuart hits people a couple of times a week and not much else. Braun shows sparks but is not there yet. Everyone on the Sharks blue line is flawed. Vlasic is to Lidstrom as a Charger with a V-6 is to a Challenger. A nice piece but no Lidstrom.

Rooting for your boys tonight.

Vlasic, along with league best defense, brings possession and retrival down low, as well as transition game, pinpoint long bomb passes and the ability to skate the puck out. Yes, since he rarely gets powerplay time with the big guns because they always choose to ice 4 forwards and Dan Boyle, his numbers are not what they could be. Babcock said as much when comparing his play as "Lidstrom-Lite". The only year he got a decent amount of PP time was the year he scored 36 points, and he still only got 3rd on the team in PP time among defensemen. Most Shark fans actually wish he got more PP time because despite what Demers numbers look like, Vlasic is better offensively on that pairing. Tmac wants Vlasic to play a specific way and he does it.

 

Effectively, saying his 24 points and +33 with the team in front of him is "nothing special" with today's scoring is like saying Konstantinov's 1995-96 season with 34 points and +60 is "nothing special", or his 1996-97 with 38 points and +38 was "nothing special". Scoring in those years was much easier than it is now(An argument you yourself made) and he had a murderers row of superstar two way forwards and defensemen on that team. If Coffey and Lidstrom did not have a monopoly on the blueline powerplay time, would Konstantinov have better numbers? Well yes. He was extremely good offensively when used thus. They just didn't need to.

 

In any case, your own teams Coach took Vlasic for Canada over several other highly touted two way defensemen, praising him to the wind as being top 10 in the league and calling him extremely underrated, and going on to say that the only reason Doughty is playing so offensively is because Vlasic makes it possible, etc. ill look for the video if you want to see it.

 

Vlasic is a huge loss, and in no way "Overrated"

[J0e Th0rnton]

Demers is very much up and coming.

I feel like I am getting abrasive on here nearing trolling and I am not trying to. I love the Sharks, I would like to see them win the Cup even. Their forwards are amazing I just don't feel the defense is on par with the forwards, not even close. But the forwards are outstanding.

Oh I completely agree. I said as much before the series started as people claimed the Sharks had no holes.

 

Demers brain farts too much, either with aggresive elbows/penalties or stupid decisions(Or indecisions) with the puck, but Vlasic was a perfect balance to him as both have good breakout passes. Young Braun is the next best Sharks Dman after Vlasic, and Braun is afraid to jump into the play because Stuart is, well, not that good anymore.

 

The Boyle Hannan pairing has been a nightmare in our zone this series and Irwin has upside, but can be knocked over by sneezing on him, so I am skeptical of him against the kings. Boyle's true use is as a PP specialist.

[Polaris922]

The Kings just woke up... Oh boy... Series tied it looks.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Should have been a no goal on the 2nd goal. even the kings announcers said it was terrible as Williams pushed visibly Stalock with his stick. broke our backs and they went full meltdown

 

 

Worst call ever

Edited April 29, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton

[Polaris922]

Should have been a no goal on the 2nd goal. even the kings announcers said it was terrible as Williams pushed visibly Stalock with his stick. broke our backs and they went full meltdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGNzWx9uWME

Worst call ever

That's been allowed on and off through the years. The officials argue control, visibility, etc etc... But honestly that's on the Sharks. They had a meltdown when they really should've got pissed off and turned the tide. They were handed a power play on a bad call for snowing Stalock when the guy really didn't, and failed to take advantage. Discipline was lost.

The Sharks had a reason to rally and instead gave up two quick goals to Kopitar.

[yave1964]

@J0e Th0rnton

Okay my last word in Vlasic. Right now you guys have other concerns.

Looking at his stats, he is 68th in points, he is 82nd in ice time among d-men with 20:42 a game, third on his own team even. 1 PPP all year. So all I see is his plus 33 to hang your hat on. A solid even strength player second in the league in plus/minus among d-men.

Tied with Johnny Boychuk.

Their stats are almost identicial even.

-----------------G-- A-- P-- +/-.. TOI-- SFT/G-- PPP-- SHP-- PIM

one guy------ 5.. 19.. 24.. +33.. 20:42... 26... 1... 2... 38

other guy---- 5.. 18.. 23.. +33.. 21:11... 27... 0... 3... 45

Basically the stat line of Boychuk and Vlasic are as close as two pringle potato chips. They are as alike as can be.

To me the reason I state that Vlasic is overrated is because the defense in San Jose is so pedestrian the top player or two get more credit than they deserve, to me that is Vlasic. Boychuk is the fourth best d-man on his own team, gets no pub but is a hell of a player. Vlasic, by default is the best the Sharks have and therefor gets more than he deserves. It happens.

Vlasic has played 600 games and will never confuse anyone with the top tier d-men in the game, the big minute eaters, the scorers, the power play point guys, he is what he is, a nice, solid even strength guy who every team would like to have. A two or a three certainly. If he is your number one on your team he might be able to pull it off if the forwards ahead of him are solid like San Jose has, but put him on most any other team and he would simply be an obscure good d-man.

Not Lidstrom. Not close, not even worth running the numbers. Same with Konstantinov, though truth be told I always felt that he was a bit overrated because of the tragedy in his life. Sorry Vlady. He falls in the Boychuk/Beauchemin class, look at the numbers, they are interchangeable and indistinguishable. Sorry Joe, he is not a true number one period. There are well over 30 d-men who I would start a team with any day of the week.

the other thing is I agree with Babs about taking a defensive specialist to the Olympics.

Edited April 29, 2014 by yave1964

[Commander Clueless]

I like Vlasic, and think he's a premier shutdown guy. He'll probably never be considered a top tier guy, but he's a guy you want on your team no doubt.

 

As for this series, all I can say is...well there are a few things I can say, but they are mostly profanities.

 

I actually still think the Sharks will win, but how could let they let the Kings back in? They had them down and out.

 

Ridiculous.

 

I'm still hoping the Sharks go far this year.

[yave1964]

I like Vlasic, and think he's a premier shutdown guy. He'll probably never be considered a top tier guy, but he's a guy you want on your team no doubt.

 

As for this series, all I can say is...well there are a few things I can say, but they are mostly profanities.

 

I actually still think the Sharks will win, but how could let they let the Kings back in? They had them down and out.

 

Ridiculous.

 

I'm still hoping the Sharks go far this year.

I like Vlasic as well. He is a premier, possibly THE premier 5 on 5 guy in the game. That says a lot. I am just saying domparing him to the real stars of the game is unrealistic. A solid Brent Seabrook number two type. If you need or expect more out of him you are stretching him too thin.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Mitchell is out tonight? Greene or Schultz in?

TMac needs to use his home ice advantage to make sure the right forwards are dumping the puck in their corner and exploiting them, as well as exploiting their lack of footspeed in the neutral zone.

TMac also needs to make sure they dump the puck in Doughty's corner all night long and smash him to wear him down if he is playing big minutes and through an injury and force him to pass it so he cannot carry it because he has been outstanding in that regard. They just have not been doing that enough the past 3 games.

[Commander Clueless]

Joe, your team better get their collective heads out of their respective asses.

[Vanflyer]

Do it for the Children!!!!!

 

wow. very cute! 

 

Sorry about your loss. What a melt down. I thought this was going to be the year that the Sharks did not choke. 

[radoran]

Nobody around here wants to admit the trade to get Carter and Richards may be the best darn trade by a team in a decade.  The Kings are monsters now.  

 

It was two trades. Separate deals.

 

And they have certainly worked out well for the Kings.

[flyercanuck]

Nobody around here wants to admit the trade to get Carter and Richards may be the best darn trade by a team in a decade.  The Kings are monsters now.  

 

 Philly traded Carter to CBJ for Couturier and Voracek. I'll take that deal all day long.

 

 Philly traded Richards to LAK for Simmonds and Schenn. Good trade for both teams. 5 years from now it'll look a lot better for the Flyers.