Brayden Schenn

[mojo1917]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=59849&blogger_id=45

 

here is a link to Meltzer's article regarding our young "dilemma"

 

Many observers, including myself, felt that Schenn was ineffective overall in the New York series. However, Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren said on Friday that he felt Schenn elevated his overall game in the New York series.

According to Holmgren, the player has played the best hockey of his career in the team's 2012 playoff series against the Pittsburgh Penguins (which is tough to dispute) and the seven-game loss to New York.

"When I met with him [on Friday], I told him he’s played 11 playoffs games two years ago, seven this year, and those might have been pretty close to his best games," said Holmgren. "Playoff games are where you need your players to play good. I think he played a harder game in the playoffs. Is it easy to get up for the Penguins and Rangers? Yeah, it probably helps."

In the bigger picture, however, both Holmgren and head coach Craig Berube feel that Schenn has more to give than he has contributed in the early stages of his NHL career.

Said Holmgren, "I would say Brayden can score goals. I think once he figured out to play a hard game all the time, he took another leap where he needs to go with his career. ...I want him, like a lot of fans, to get better right away. But with any young player sometimes it takes a little bit longer than we’re all prepared to wait. He’s a good, young player.”

Added Berube, "We talked, and he understands he has to be more consistent. I think, as a team, we have to be more consistent. I think in general our team has to understand that to be a championship caliber team and a top echelon team in the NHL, consistency is huge." 

One of the big question marks going forward with Schenn is whether he will play center or left wing. The young forward has shuttled back and forth between the middle and the wing in all three of his NHL seasons, and the addition of Vincent Lecavalier last summer ended up creating an even bigger conundrum. 

 

My feeling about this kid is he will put it together in year 2 after he is traded, or maybe as soon as next year if he earns a defined role on our team.

 

His ELC is not the best for signing him to a reasonable bridge deal, based on Couturier's deal he should be good with 2.25 x 2 or 3 guaranteed, that's more moolah today and allows the team to let him grow some more. we'll see if that passes muster because i think his agent will be pushing for more.

 

I am not against trading him either , provided its a Recchi for Dejardins type deal, we'd have to get a guy that will be uber helpful on the blueline for many years .  I don't think he needs shipped out of town because, as some like so say "he's not talented" .. . He is, what he isn't is consistent. 

 

the FO seems to like him but wants more from him, i think he'll respond by working harder, there is nothing about that kid that says he's a "coaster".  

 

either way I thought the Meltzer article was fair and informative.

 

[murraycraven]

Thanks for posting mojo...

 

I think the article is very fair.  Right now I think B Schenn is the biggest question mark on this Team in terms of where he plays and how he develops.  There are nights I see some flashes of a player that can play at a very high level.  These types of nights are only offset by long stretches of mediocrity, and frankly, unnoticable play.  It is like he disappears for stretches.  

 

He is still very young and I think most were hoping for a quicker development.  I think there are two scenarios here:  1) VLC gets moved in the offseason and Schenn is the center or 2) VLC's contract is not movable and he is traded for an impact player.   As much as he frustrates me I do not want to move him...

 

I think the Player and the skills are there - sometimes I question the motivation.   Again, Schenn is an anomoly to me right now but I would rather see his development w/ the Flyers.

[mojo1917]

I think there are two scenarios here:  1) VLC gets moved in the offseason and Schenn is the center or 2) VLC's contract is not movable and he is traded for an impact player.   As much as he frustrates me I do not want to move him...

 

i'm hoping for scenario #1 there,  rather have a young guy in the fold with his career in front of him than the guy on the downside of his career with the possibility of sliding into jes gimme dem checks mode.  even though the VLC is a character guy and community stalwart blah blah blah, i'd like to see that weird signing mistake erased. 

[murraycraven]

i'd like to see that weird signing mistake erased.

 

I hear you man... still have no clue why Homer made that deal.   Like the player and all but that contract is a disaster.

[fanaticV3.0]

Thanks for posting mojo...

 

I think the article is very fair.  Right now I think B Schenn is the biggest question mark on this Team in terms of where he plays and how he develops.  There are nights I see some flashes of a player that can play at a very high level.  These types of nights are only offset by long stretches of mediocrity, and frankly, unnoticable play.  It is like he disappears for stretches.  

 

He is still very young and I think most were hoping for a quicker development.  I think there are two scenarios here:  1) VLC gets moved in the offseason and Schenn is the center or 2) VLC's contract is not movable and he is traded for an impact player.   As much as he frustrates me I do not want to move him...

 

I think the Player and the skills are there - sometimes I question the motivation.   Again, Schenn is an anomoly to me right now but I would rather see his development w/ the Flyers.

 

I don't have any stats to say who played where more often, but every article I have read about the VLC/Schenn/2nd line center/wing/demotion to the 4th line center scenario stated that Schenn has played more games than VLC as the 2nd line center. He has been giving the opportunity, but just hasn't claimed the spot as his own.

 

He doesn't strike me as a great center anyway, but that's another discussion.

[brelic]

I hear you man... still have no clue why Homer made that deal.   Like the player and all but that contract is a disaster.

 

Any chance Homer was using a pen with disappearing ink?

 

*fingers crossed*

[mojo1917]

He doesn't strike me as a great center anyway, but that's another discussion.

 

He strikes me as an even lesser wing.

 

Schenn has produced more at the pivot and he's 22...VLC had a tough time staying on the ice this year and is 34 and a truly known quantity

[aziz]

He strikes me as an even lesser wing.

Really, though? He is terrible on faceoffs, defensive instincts are almost non-existent, is a far better shooter than a passer, and is far more effective along the boards than in open ice. So... Why do people insist that he is best taking draws, being responsible as first forward in the defensive zone, in a puck distribution role, placed in the middle of the rink?

There is literally nothing about him that says "center", other than his rookie card. Not a bit of his skill set supports the role on an NHL center. He has a lot of raw talent, but none of it points to that position. IMveryHO

Edit - produced more as a pivot... Did he? I'd be curious to see numbers. I don't doubt it, but was it because he played there more often, or was his p/g actually higher?

Edited May 6, 2014 by aziz

[murraycraven]

He is terrible on faceoffs,

 

Honestly, I would rather have VLC taking faceoffs...   I have no problem w/ Schenn playing wing and kind of agree his skill-set is better for a winger in the NHL.  He seems to play better (production) at the center position but right now I am not sure of he is a sure-shot, 2nd line NHL center.   We see flashes but more often than not he disappears.  

 

He is the only player on this Team I feel like that he is an unknown.  The talent is there but can he finally develop into the forward most thought when drafted?   Or is he another version of his brother - drafted as a highly touted player that is mediocre in the NHL?  I have no clue but I sure hope he develops into the player that everyone expected.

Edited May 6, 2014 by murraycraven

[mojo1917]

@aziz

 

I don't have any numbers , I do however feel like he is more "involved" and confident when he's playing center, more noticeable in the good ways. Again this is anecdotal from memory of , "oh it's Hartnell Simmonds and Schenn, hey lookit that Schenn kid hit that guy...wow. "   as opposed to "damn that VLC Schenn & Simmonds line gets hemmed in the D-zone ... a lot" .

 

I think he's more tentative at wing and with these Schenn boys that's not a good thing.  Sort of like his brother, when he knows what's up with his partner, he's solid. when he's back there with the mad Eastern Euro player, he's lost.  

[OccamsRazor]

@aziz

 

I don't have any numbers , I do however feel like he is more "involved" and confident when he's playing center, more noticeable in the good ways. Again this is anecdotal from memory of , "oh it's Hartnell Simmonds and Schenn, hey lookit that Schenn kid hit that guy...wow. "   as opposed to "damn that VLC Schenn & Simmonds line gets hemmed in the D-zone ... a lot" .

 

I think he's more tentative at wing and with these Schenn boys that's not a good thing.  Sort of like his brother, when he knows what's up with his partner, he's solid. when he's back there with the mad Eastern Euro player, he's lost.  

 

 

Yes i agree. I would love (and yes this may be more of a dream i know) for Vinny to get a chance to play for Lavy now that he is head coach in Nash and lets let Brayden play center for a whole season that to trade a young 22 center and keep the 34 year old guy.

 

I have seen something in Schenn's game i like and also notice something he needs to work on. But i'm not ready to give up on him and let him go somewhere else and blossom else where.

 

This team is slowly headed in the right direction yet still has a ways to go and there are many that need to work on their game. I just don't won't to see Partick Sharp part 2!!!!

 

One whole year at center and i think we'll all know better where he is at. There are many that struggle going from center to wing and it's really not fair to judge him with all the flip flopping.

 

But at the same time i understand he could be traded for a defensman....

[brelic]

Yes i agree. I would love (and yes this may be more of a dream i know) for Vinny to get a chance to play for Lavy now that he is head coach in Nash and lets let Brayden play center for a whole season that to trade a young 22 center and keep the 34 year old guy.

 

I have seen something in Schenn's game i like and also notice something he needs to work on. But i'm not ready to give up on him and let him go somewhere else and blossom else where.

 

This team is slowly headed in the right direction yet still has a ways to go and there are many that need to work on their game. I just don't won't to see Partick Sharp part 2!!!!

 

One whole year at center and i think we'll all know better where he is at. There are many that struggle going from center to wing and it's really not fair to judge him with all the flip flopping.

 

But at the same time i understand he could be traded for a defensman....

 

Total speculation on my part, but I wonder if LA had already made up their minds that Schenn was overrated.

 

Think of all the offers Clarke and Homer apparently got for Giroux. And from the get-go, Giroux was labeled an untouchable. No way, no how. 

 

Would you trade Giroux (as a prospect) and a roster player for Mike Richards? 

 

Ok, so when you're done spitting up your drink and laughing... if you wouldn't do that, why would you trade Simmonds and the "best player not in the NHL" who was drafted 5th overall, for Mike Richards who is signed for eternity, unless you knew that your "best player not in the NHL" might not be all he's cracked up to be?

 

Conspiracy theory? Maybe

 

Just having fun in a looooooong off-season that's just beginning.

[King Knut]

LA knew they were a piece away from a cup and they were right.

Homer knew he needed to rebuild with youth. Or at least he did for a few hours one afternoon the completely forgot all about it.

I think if you deal Schenn at this point it's because there is a quality deal on the table and NOT because you want to play Vinny over him.

Keep Briere, sign Jagr, sign Gagne like you told him you would... Whatever. But this VLC deal is a bit crazy town.

I guess there's a clause in Homer's contract that says there has to be at least two utterly insane contracts on the books every season. I don't have much other explanation for it.

Do you think he got VLC and STL confused?

Total speculation on my part, but I wonder if LA had already made up their minds that Schenn was overrated.

Think of all the offers Clarke and Homer apparently got for Giroux. And from the get-go, Giroux was labeled an untouchable. No way, no how.

Would you trade Giroux (as a prospect) and a roster player for Mike Richards?

Ok, so when you're done spitting up your drink and laughing... if you wouldn't do that, why would you trade Simmonds and the "best player not in the NHL" who was drafted 5th overall, for Mike Richards who is signed for eternity, unless you knew that your "best player not in the NHL" might not be all he's cracked up to be?

Conspiracy theory? Maybe

Just having fun in a looooooong off-season that's just beginning.

[OccamsRazor]

Ok, so when you're done spitting up your drink and laughing... if you wouldn't do that, why would you trade Simmonds and the "best player not in the NHL" who was drafted 5th overall, for Mike Richards who is signed for eternity, unless you knew that your "best player not in the NHL" might not be all he's cracked up to be?

 

My only reasoning for it is Mike was already proven and had Cup experience and at the time the Kings had no one with Cup experience besides Jason Smyth and Justin Williams. It is fishy...a  proven for two unprovens is all i got.

 

Plus it seems like the Flyer were trying to cover up something real quick like their addiction to pain killers (the rumor) which were provided by the Flyers and their medical staff. There is still a lot to that story that will be revealed one day in the future. Flyer were washing their hands to me from monsters they made.

[OccamsRazor]

But this VLC deal is a bit crazy town.

 

I can't prove it but you're right to rid yourself of one deal to jump in on another so quick....something going on there....i can't prove it but something tells me that Vinny was about to be a Ranger or a Peng-wen (or maybe even a Devil) was the reason he sign him he was cock blocking someone...other wise it makes zero sense.

Edited May 7, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[King Knut]

In meaning always assumed the logic was that homer screwed the team by letting Carle and jagr walk, so he tried to replace them with Streit and VLC.

Made a bit if sense. But he could have had actual jagr for less money so that really throws a wrench in it.

I can't prove it but you're right to rid yourself of one deal to jump in on another so quick....something going on there....i can't prove it but something tells me that Vinny was about to be a Ranger or a Peng-wen (or maybe even a Devil) was the reason he sign him he was cock blocking someone...other wise it makes zero sense.

[Mad Dog]

@brelic

 

I agree w/ King Knut. I don't think it was a conspiracy theory at all. I really don't think it's because they felt Schenn was not going to be a good player.  I think this was just a simple case of the LA been convinced they were just one - or two at worst - players away from winning it all.  They had a superstar-type goalie, a quality defense, but they were lacking that one complete forward who would supplement Kopitar.  Simmonds wasn't it and B Schenn was a green, unproven commodity.  Richards was a great playoff performer, who could basically do it all.  If you ask me, it was a low-risk/high-reward deal for them.  Richards needed a change of scenery to be successful.  He got it.  And LA got the man they wanted and when they later added Carter, they were the best team and justifiably won.

 

I think that was a good deal fro both teams. Outside Giroux, Simmonds was the most consistent Flyer both in the regular season and in the playoffs. He is physical, offensively gifted, plays hard every game and add much-needed team toughness.  What's not to like? 

 

B Schenn is an enigma. He was a so-so this year.  Not horrible, but not brilliant eitehr.  He was an average player, which would be OK for someone like Matt Read, because Read does not have a pedegree of Schenn.  

 

The good news is, he is still young and is just entering his prime. So it's OK for the jury to still be out on him.  But I will say the 2014-2015 will be a key year for him.  No two ways about it.  Even at 23, the time is not on his side.  He HAS TO start making progress fast.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Mad Dog

[jammer2]

  Braydon could be a 35 goal scorer, or a peak out at 20 and be a career mucker and grinder. Next season will reveal a lot going forward as to which end of that spectrum he will fit into. One thing I never thought I'd be posting, it's now up in the air as to which brother will have the better career. If I posted that in January people would have had me committed.

[brelic]

I agree w/ King Knut. I don't think it was a conspiracy theory at all. I really don't think it's because they felt Schenn was not going to be a good player.  I think this was just a simple case of the LA been convinced they were just one - or two at worst - players away from winning it all.  They had a superstar-type goalie, a quality defense, but they were lacking that one complete forward who would supplement Kopitar.  Simmonds wasn't it and B Schenn was a green, unproven commodity.  Richards was a great playoff performer, who could basically do it all.  If you ask me, it was a low-risk/high-reward deal for them.  Richards needed a change of scenery to be successful.  He got it.  And LA got the man they wanted and when they later added Carter, they were the best team and justifiably won.

 

I agree with both of you. LA had a solid team and wanted to add that missing piece to their roster. Richards was a perfect choice. I was just having fun making conspiracies out of nothing

 

@Mad Dog

@jammer2

 

You guys are right that next season is a huge one for Brayden. I don't know if incremental production - say 45 points - will cut it. It shows progress, but you start to expect different things out of highly-touted players. I mean, the stat line I posted comparing him and E Kane is pretty telling. Same number of games, Kane has a much higher production (albeit with a chunk more TOI).

[fanaticV3.0]

He strikes me as an even lesser wing.

 

Schenn has produced more at the pivot and he's 22...VLC had a tough time staying on the ice this year and is 34 and a truly known quantity

 

I don't agree. @aziz is right. There is nothing about him that says center. He's has pretty much no defensive game, is better along the boards than the open ice, is not particularly good on faceoffs, and is a better shooter than passer. He doesn't have a well-rounded enough game to play the center position.

 

Don't give me the age argument (in regards to this particular point). VLC knows how to play center. It doesn't matter how old he is, or young Schenn is, if Schenn can't play the position.