Coburn to Edmonton for...?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Is Klefbom really that good of a prospect to deal a good defenseman for? I can empathize on some of the dislike for Coburn but if he left it would cause a huge hole in the lineup on d...

Klefbom is not what I would demand. To me it is Nurse or bust... End the of story.

 

Klefbom is a very nice defensive prospect. Think Brodin in Minnesota and you've got Klefbom. Yes, he's had some real freaky injuries, but his injuries seem to be a thing of the past. What I like about him is just how smart he is on the ice. He doesn't panic, doesn't try to do things he can't do. He just makes the smart play. There's also some untapped offensive ability there. I'd love Klefbom to come to Philadelphia. I could see Hatcher really working some magic with him.

[doom88]

Who's to say Nurse or Klefbom won't be the next Coburn? Or Carle? Or, Ryan Parent.

No such thing as a can't miss prospect outside of Crosby. No thanks.

[JR Ewing]

Klefbom is a very nice defensive prospect. Think Brodin in Minnesota and you've got Klefbom. Yes, he's had some real freaky injuries, but his injuries seem to be a thing of the past. What I like about him is just how smart he is on the ice. He doesn't panic, doesn't try to do things he can't do. He just makes the smart play. There's also some untapped offensive ability there. I'd love Klefbom to come to Philadelphia. I could see Hatcher really working some magic with him.

 

Yeah, I'd be more worried if it was a recurring injury. In his case, one was a cut on his thigh from a skate which became badly infected. Not your run of the mill injury, that's for sure, and one I wouldn't worry about happening again.

 

Your take on him is a good one. From Redline Report:

 

Klefbom is a real Red Line favorite. He’s certainly the most overlooked of the top prospects, but is the best pure passer of the bunch, and his skating ranks only behind Murphy. He already makes pro style passes — crisp and with touch — and excels at breaking the trap with tremendous stretch passes through the neutral zone, showing great vision. He was also the natural leader on Sweden’s national under-18 team. All this comes wrapped in a 6-3, 196-pound package, and Klefbom has really stepped up the physical aspect of his game over the last 12 months. At Red Line, we believe he might ultimately become the best all-around balance of offensive upside and physical strength in this year’s class.

[OccamsRazor]

You know they record all ghe games and GMs can watch them, right?

 

You know you're ruining this plan right?????

[OccamsRazor]

@radoran

 

Ok here is my counter offer.......the Schenn twins for Klefbom and Perron.

[brelic]

Well yeah because we know Coburn and his limits Oilers don't quite know that yet...but they will.

 

Ok i'll re do the offer then Klefbom, 3rd overall and Mitchell Moroz for Coburn.

 

Coburn is not worth that. The thing with Coburn is that he may be a #2 defenseman, but he doesn't excel in any part of it. He's pretty good at most things. More like a jack of all trades on the top pairing. The Oilers would certainly not be getting fair value.

 

On the other hand, I saw an article about the OIlers yesterday mentioning their core, which they will not trade. Conspicuously absent was Yakupov. Now, if you can package Coburn and something else to get Yakupov, that gets interesting. He was terrible last year after a very good rookie season. He's not proven at all, yet is only 20 years old. He could be an All-star or a bust. Seriously, it could go either way with this guy.

 

But he would be worth the risk.

[aziz]

@brelic

Yakupov.... Pass. He actively dislikes checking. He has been taught defensive coverage is optional. I get that the Flyers don't want to be an entirely bruising team, but I don't think a player who specifically avoids contact and sees himself as an offense-only contributor would work at all. I can't see the other players appreciating the prima donnaness, and the fans would eat him alive.

[brelic]

@brelic

Yakupov.... Pass. He actively dislikes checking. He has been taught defensive coverage is optional. I get that the Flyers don't want to be an entirely bruising team, but I don't think a player who specifically avoids contact and sees himself as an offense-only contributor would work at all. I can't see the other players appreciating the prima donnaness, and the fans would eat him alive.

 

Maybe you're right. But I'd like to believe there's more to a 1st overall pick than we've seen in less than a season and a half.

[aziz]

Maybe you're right. But I'd like to believe there's more to a 1st overall pick than we've seen in less than a season and a half.

I think he does, he has the stuff to be an offensive force. His game is just so astoundingly one dimensional. He has been used as an offensive specialist his whole life, other aspects of the game have no meaning for him. They are things other guys take care of while he carries the puck and scores goals. He's like ovechkin without the mean streak.

What is really worrying about him is that he doesn't see anything wrong with that approach, it's the game he had been taught, the one that got him this far.

"I don't really like playing without the puck, skate all the time and do forecheck and hit somebody every shift... I don't think it's my game. "

There might be a team that can find a spot for a 100% offense only player to whom the idea of back checking is literally foreign, but I really can't see it in Philly.

[brelic]

I think he does, he has the stuff to be an offensive force. His game is just so astoundingly one dimensional. He has been used as an offensive specialist his whole life, other aspects of the game have no meaning for him. They are things other guys take care of while he carries the puck and scores goals. He's like ovechkin without the mean streak.

What is really worrying about him is that he doesn't see anything wrong with that approach, it's the game he had been taught, the one that got him this far.

"I don't really like playing without the puck, skate all the time and do forecheck and hit somebody every shift... I don't think it's my game. "

There might be a team that can find a spot for a 100% offense only player to whom the idea of back checking is literally foreign, but I really can't see it in Philly.

 

Maybe Berube and ROsehill take him in a dark alley after practice to show him the finer points of defense and backchecking

[radoran]

Maybe you're right. But I'd like to believe there's more to a 1st overall pick than we've seen in less than a season and a half.

 

I've seen on teh Twitters than that the Oilers aren't really interested in moving Yakupov.

 

I do think that they would move him if the right offer came along (like just about anyone else on the roster, regardless of their "untouchable" core).

 

And I completely agree that you can teach skilled players to be better, but the question is "can and will they learn?" Yakupov has a lot to show, but certainly has time to show it.

[JR Ewing]

Much of what has been said about Yakupov in this thread is true, but players with his abilities can have tremendous impact if they're deployed properly. Unless he fills in his game, he'll never be playing with Hall who, since about 7 games into his NHL career, has been able to play against tough opposition. The role that Yakupov needs to occupy is one of a soft minutes killer with a lot of offensive zone starts and PP specialist.

 

Where teams screw up is when they want to change a young player like him, who has some tremendous skill, and re-create him as a player type which he isn't. By all means, teach him responsibility, but don't attempt to completely alter him in a way which isn't in his DNA. It's no different than major league ball clubs, which get it into their heads to take a good young player and do a tiny little thing like completely changing his batting stance, swing, etc, and then wonder why he's having a hard time adjusting to the big leagues.

 

Either way, I think the Oilers only trade Yakupov as part of a package for a clear number one star defenseman, and not the Braydon Coburn-type player. Coburn is a player, but not in that class. Until then, Yakupov has too much promise, and the Oilers aren't exactly brimming with RW depth with Hemsky gone, for them to go shipping him off unless the return is big.

 

Who the hell cuts bait on a number 1 pick with only a little over 100 games under his belt?

[aziz]

Much of what has been said about Yakupov in this thread is true, but players with his abilities can have tremendous impact if they're deployed properly. Unless he fills in his game, he'll never be playing with Hall who, since about 7 games into his NHL career, has been able to play against tough opposition. The role that Yakupov needs to occupy is one of a soft minutes killer with a lot of offensive zone starts and PP specialist.

Where teams screw up is when they want to change a young player like him, who has some tremendous skill, and re-create him as a player type which he isn't. By all means, teach him responsibility, but don't attempt to completely alter him in a way which isn't in his DNA. It's no different than major league ball clubs, which get it into their heads to take a good young player and do a tiny little thing like completely changing his batting stance, swing, etc, and then wonder why he's having a hard time adjusting to the big leagues.

Either way, I think the Oilers only trade Yakupov as part of a package for a clear number one star defenseman, and not the Braydon Coburn-type player. Coburn is a player, but not in that class. Until then, Yakupov has too much promise, and the Oilers aren't exactly brimming with RW depth with Hemsky gone, for them to go shipping him off unless the return is big.

Who the hell cuts bait on a number 1 pick with only a little over 100 games under his belt?

Well, a team that is afraid another season of being really really terrible and contact / defence averse will eat away what trade value he has left might. Making statements like forechecking and skating without the puck aren't really part of your game, and then backing that up with a -33, and not mitigating that with any real offensive production... Value starts to fall away quickly.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I think he does, he has the stuff to be an offensive force. His game is just so astoundingly one dimensional. He has been used as an offensive specialist his whole life, other aspects of the game have no meaning for him. They are things other guys take care of while he carries the puck and scores goals. He's like ovechkin without the mean streak.

What is really worrying about him is that he doesn't see anything wrong with that approach, it's the game he had been taught, the one that got him this far.

"I don't really like playing without the puck, skate all the time and do forecheck and hit somebody every shift... I don't think it's my game. "

There might be a team that can find a spot for a 100% offense only player to whom the idea of back checking is literally foreign, but I really can't see it in Philly.

 

Yakupov is a very interesting character. He looked real good his rookie year. He back checked, he played hard and he looked like a legitimate top line winger. The moment Dallas Eakins gets into town, he seems to have it out for Yakupov, even though he says otherwise. I know Eakins was trying to make an imprint on the club, but I honestly beilieve Eakins had no clue how to use Yakupov and frustration set in on both sides. I think Yakupov's comments about not playing about the puck might have been lost in the Russian to English translation and I get it - he goes from being used in an offensive role to being used on a checking line. It's not what his skill set or forte matches. It'd be like telling Giroux he's going to center the fourth line. I don't think that would go over well.

 

Yakupov might be a one dimensional player, but what I like about him is that he's one of those guys who's first to arrive to the rink and the last to leave. He's also a workout enthusiast and always reports in top shape. Work ethic is something that can't be taught and he has that in spades. Put him on a team with veterans who can lead him and he'll turn it around. I look at the mess of a situation in Edmonton and I'm surprised Yakupov has performed as well as he has.

 

As for Coburn, I think Hextall and the Flyers really need to take a look and see if they are a legitimate Stanley Cup contender or not. To me, they might qualify for the playoffs, but that doesn't necessarily make them a legitimate Cup contender. Besides the fact Coburn seems to lack the actual hockey IQ to really elevate and carry a defense pairing, to me, this club simply isn't a Cup contender and that now is the time to really focus on correcting all the band aid solutions that Holmgren has applied over the years and really put together a strong defensive unit. So, if Coburn is the most valuable chip the Flyers have, why not see if you can get a blue chipper for him who's ready to contribute 20+ minutes a night on the blue line? If they aren't in contention for the Stanley Cup and if they're just going to qualify for the playoffs, I'd rather load up on good young players who are ready to break through and have them gain some much valuable experience rather than stick with someone who has a pattern and history of erratic and inconsistent play, no matter the physical tools he might have.

[brelic]

Well, a team that is afraid another season of being really really terrible and contact / defence averse will eat away what trade value he has left might. Making statements like forechecking and skating without the puck aren't really part of your game, and then backing that up with a -33, and not mitigating that with any real offensive production... Value starts to fall away quickly.

 

Which is why it might be a great opportunity to buy low. The upside is huge. The downside is... well, I guess we're seeing it now. 

[brelic]

So, if Coburn is the most valuable chip the Flyers have, why not see if you can get a blue chipper for him who's ready to contribute 20+ minutes a night on the blue line?

 

I'm confused by this. Isn't that what we have now in Coburn? 

[aziz]

Which is why it might be a great opportunity to buy low. The upside is huge. The downside is... well, I guess we're seeing it now.

Maybe. I still pass. I'm not so sure the upside is actually all that high. He is a less talented ovechkin who doesn't like to hit. Alex semin who wants the puck on his stick all the time rather than working without the puck to get open. Alexei Kovalev who doesn't understand the value of a north-south aspect to his game. These are all players I wouldn't have wanted on my team to begin with, and he is a more limited version of each. Really just want nothing to do with him.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm confused by this. Isn't that what we have now in Coburn? 

 

I'm talking about a consistent player. There's nothing consistent to Coburn other than his pattern of playing extremely crappy for a period of time, then playing somewhat mediocre followed up by playing really well mixed in with numerous and crucial brain farts. That's Coburn in a nutshell.

[AndyS]

I think Coburn is a pretty good defenseman.

 

He is not a #1 D-man, but has been sort of shouldered with that load since Pronger's injury, IMO.

 

Put him on a defensive pairing with someone like Shea Weber or Drew Doughty and suddenly he'd look like a great d-man.  Funny how that works.

 

Kimmo didn't sing on for 1 more season to not have a shot at the Cup.  Other than that, if the Flyers could stockpile good defensive prospects, I'd be all for that.

 

Any chance Edmonton has a winger that the Flyers could acquire?

[OccamsRazor]

Conspicuously absent was Yakupov. Now, if you can package Coburn and something else to get Yakupov, that gets interesting.

 

Nah i pass and just keep Coburn whom i really don't want to really trade in the first place but would listen to offers and the last thing the Flyers need is a lazy pouty russian.........pass!!!!!!!

[brelic]

I'm talking about a consistent player. There's nothing consistent to Coburn other than his pattern of playing extremely crappy for a period of time, then playing somewhat mediocre followed up by playing really well mixed in with numerous and crucial brain farts. That's Coburn in a nutshell.

 

I've actually found him to be perfectly adequate in what he does. Not great, not bad. I think he was exposed - as was the ENTIRE team - in the Rangers series. But that's not usually the Coburn we see night in and night out.

 

I hoped for much more when we got him. I mean, he was drafted 8th overall. But that ship has sailed, and he is what he is now - a decent if underwhelming defender who can play legitimate top line minutes.

[OccamsRazor]

. Isn't that what we have now in Coburn? 

 

Coburn is far from a bluechipper. 

[JR Ewing]

Well, a team that is afraid another season of being really really terrible and contact / defence averse will eat away what trade value he has left might. Making statements like forechecking and skating without the puck aren't really part of your game, and then backing that up with a -33, and not mitigating that with any real offensive production... Value starts to fall away quickly.

 

I think that's all fair, and I think he could be traded, provided the return is what they'd like. He's a phenomenal talent, and I think it would be a mistake to give up on him this quickly. Just two summers ago, he was seen as the best draft eligible prospect in the world, and a year later, he led rookies in goal scoring playing as the 3rd RW on the Oilers. There's a lot there to hold on to.

 

He got a pretty rough ride from a new coach, who seem bound and determined to break Yakupov. He benched him, publicly citing a lack of willingness to play in his end when there is no shortage of Oilers players who could easily wear that label.

[aziz]

citing a lack of willingness to play in his end when there is no shortage of Oilers players who could easily wear that label.

There's the question, though: can it work in today's NHL to have a player who only plays the offensive side of the ice? Can a team afford to use a player who effectively leaves them shorthanded when the puck crosses the defensive blueline? Yes, they can have defensive specialists that balance the roster out, but if that guy gets 18 minutes of ice time.. Those are 18 dangerous minutes. Can that work today?

Back in the day, the story went that Gretzky only ever saw grant fuhr at the team Christmas party, and figured Andy moog was the team mascot. and that was ok. Is it still?

Personally, I think a team gets eaten alive if a regular roster player plays that game. I have to agree with the handling of yakupov; he is dangerous to his team unless he accepts a more complete game, and if he doesn't accept that, the team can't use him outside of offensive zone starts and the PP.

[JR Ewing]

There's the question, though: can it work in today's NHL to have a player who only plays the offensive side of the ice? Can a team afford to use a player who effectively leaves them shorthanded when the puck crosses the defensive blueline? Yes, they can have defensive specialists that balance the roster out, but if that guy gets 18 minutes of ice time.. Those are 18 dangerous minutes. Can that work today?

Back in the day, the story went that Gretzky only ever saw grant fuhr at the team Christmas party, and figured Andy moog was the team mascot. and that was ok. Is it still?

Personally, I think a team gets eaten alive if a regular roster player plays that game. I have to agree with the handling of yakupov; he is dangerous to his team unless he accepts a more complete game, and if he doesn't accept that, the team can't use him outside of offensive zone starts and the PP.

 

As I said in an earlier post: it's fair to teach him responsibility. I'm not saying that he has nothing to learn, or that the Oilers should accept whatever defensive effort Yakupov feels like putting forward. My issue is not that Dallas Eakins is attempting to get Yakupov to play a more rounded game, but that he was the only player publicly punished with a benching for that crime while not close to being the only player guilty of it.

 

Essentially, what he learned last year was that if your name is Jordan Eberle or Sam Gagner, it's quite alright to blow the zone early and hang out near centre ice or not even glance over your shoulder in your own end, but that if your name is Nail Yakupov and you do that, you'll be benched and called out. I won't even get into Justin Schultz.

 

In that sense, the coach mis-handled the kid.

Edited June 17, 2014 by JR Ewing