flyerrod Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 He did put up a 20-goal season last year. There was another guy who put up a 20-goal season at about the same age and was "disappointing" and "not trying" and "floating".They dealt him for Schenn's brother.He scored 30 last season.For SOMEONE else. JVR through either injury or apathy was not going to put those numbers up here. Truthfully, I am amazed that Toronto got that much out of him. At the time of the trade, Philly had an abundance of center/wingers and JVR could not hold a spot on either of the top lines. Luke Schenn was the defensive equivalent of JVR in that he had shown flashes of ability but seemed to be having trouble putting it together and to this day he still looks the same. Offensively, Philly is solid, defensively, they look like swiss cheese...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 @brelic Nice research bre....yeah, as a 22 year old, B.Schenn did put up 20 goals last year, not exactly chopped liver. I do think a lot of them were tack on goals, after the game had been decided. Not many game tying or go ahead goals in there...at least from what I remember. I betcha the chart looks normal on B.Schenn, his goal totals were more than respectable for a player of his age. The problem is where he was drafted and who he was traded for...and how he DOMINATED the world jrs after being a top selection. Those factors set the bar mighty high, and let's just say he has not been a world class high jumper. If Schenns goals, scored at a young age, were in fact "tack on" goals, what were people saying about Carter and JVR at the same age? Carter couldn't do anything right on this board. He led the team in goals and that was never good enough. JVR had his skill, but basically the same work ethic Schenn and Carter showed at that age. Of course we couldn't use either of them at this stage of their careers. Like many have said, he *is* and always will be a useful NHL player, but as each game and week goes by, that special jaw dropping talent has been null and void....mostly looks like a kid going through the motions, content on being good but not great....in other words, he does not play "Flyerhockey"...which is a sure ticket out of town for most folks that are under the age of 35....lol. What exactly IS Flyerhockey? Is it what Bryz and VLC play that brought them in here and earned them both huge paydays? Brieres regular seasons? Amonte? Rathje? MacDonald? Nedved? Zhitnik? York? I could go on and on, but those guys were all brought in, not given a ticket out of town, for the exact same, if not worse, work ethic. I remember what it used to be. But that Flyer hockey doesn't much exist anymore. (Mike Richards played it...they traded him) I think Schenn actually IS playing Flyerhockey. It just doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Cause I see the same thing out of Giroux/Voracek/VLC/Coburn...okay, everyone not named Simmonds for shifts, games, weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 For SOMEONE else. JVR through either injury or apathy was not going to put those numbers up here. Truthfully, I am amazed that Toronto got that much out of him. At the time of the trade, Philly had an abundance of center/wingers and JVR could not hold a spot on either of the top lines. Luke Schenn was the defensive equivalent of JVR in that he had shown flashes of ability but seemed to be having trouble putting it together and to this day he still looks the same. Offensively, Philly is solid, defensively, they look like swiss cheese...... JVR gets to play on a line that plays river hockey. They skate like mad when they have the puck, and watch the other team play 5 on 2 when they don't. I know I;m exaggerating but JVR and Kessel certainly won't be winning any Selke trophys anytime soon. But I think he much prefers that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 So you're saying he would fit right in on the Flyers top line?The grapes were probably sour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 @radoran I'm sure he could. Some players just have zero interest in playing a defensive game. JVR, among others, may be one of them. Kessel would be another. I think they meshed well (offensively) because of it. The only sour grapes I have about JVR is that we'd finally pick high in a lame draft , and we didn't get equal value in the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 The only sour grapes I have about JVR is that we'd finally pick high in a lame draft , and we didn't get equal value in the trade. The only thing I care about is what he got dealt for. We were talking 20-goal scorers in the other thread and how difficult it can be to find one. 30-goal scorers even moreso. And they gave him away for a bottom 6 defenseman to play with his brother, who apparently they have no confidence in at all, either. To speak to the overall point, though, if the Flyers can't effectively develop a 20-goal scorer into a two-way player, how on Earth are they ever going to develop a defenseman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 @radoran Well Richards/Giroux/Carter/Gagne developed well enough. Some guys just don't have it in their DNA to play that style. JVR seems to not have much interest in D most of the time, then look stellar at it at in rare occasions. He CAN play that game, he chooses not to. He's good enough that he doesn't have to. As for the defencemen...they'll develop a dman even if only by the blind squirrel theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 @radoran Well Richards/Giroux/Carter/Gagne developed well enough. Some guys just don't have it in their DNA to play that style. JVR seems to not have much interest in D most of the time, then look stellar at it at in rare occasions. He CAN play that game, he chooses not to. He's good enough that he doesn't have to. As for the defencemen...they'll develop a dman even if only by the blind squirrel theory. Richards was a defensive monster when he came here - that was his calling card. Gagne was a great two-way player. Crater a lot of people criticised for "floating" and "taking shifts off" etc. So that's two guys in the past.. decade? If you include Gagne, he was drafted in 1998. That said, are you watching the same Claude Giroux I am this season? The 5 points in four games -4 guy? Might need some more development in that area, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 @radoran Giroux can play well defensively when motivated. I agree he chooses not to on plenty of occasions. Couturier obviously was already sound defensively as well. I think the Flyers are ok as far as forwards are concerned. Other than the part about actually keeping them. Defnce though, I still stand by the blind squirrel theory. I mean if the LEAFS can develop a defenceman then Flyers should be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Year four rolls around and now Schenn is finally being earmarked to play left wing. However, Giroux gets injured in camp and what does Berube do? He moves Schenn back to center. Yes, let's stunt Schenn's development on the wing even further in order to win meaningless games. And now that Schenn has had a whopping five periods to develop chemistry with Giroux while also learning the responsibilities of a new position, he gets demoted because he's not scoring right off the back. Nope, this doesn't fall on Schenn. This falls on Flyers management and coaching staff for their lack of planning and lack of sticking to the plan. i didn't pay much attention to the preseason and didn't know they moved him back to C...and have to say you make good points. I said this in another thread today, I feel he is too easily knocked off the puck , especially since he is a strong physical kid. however, he played well vs Anaheim , he kept the puck alive in the offensive zone, gave quality support and made good passes on the breakout. He used his frame to make space and be available for passes in the slot area during his PP time...there was a stretch where he was out with Couturier who was stickhandling and missed the window to set him up for a one timer in the OT , but he was there and Couturier saw it a touch too late ... if Brayden puts forth effort like that consistently no one will be complaining about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Someone on another board posted the Schenns for Jeff Petry +. I tweaked it a little bit and put forth a Schenns for Petry and Perron trade and think that might turn out to be a good deal for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Jeff Petry + Dude can't even crack the OILERS lineup! And why would Edmonton trade Perron? Are there rumblings that they're not happy with him? Either way, that trade severely weakens Edmonton and gives them even more youth - they need vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Dude can't even crack the OILERS lineup! And why would Edmonton trade Perron? Are there rumblings that they're not happy with him? Either way, that trade severely weakens Edmonton and gives them even more youth - they need vets.Petry cracked the Oilers lineup. He was just a healthy scratch the other night and yeah, he was peeved about it. Dallas Eakins seems to be making a lot of enemies in that locker room and Petry apparently has asked to be moved. As for Perron, he got bumped to the third line in Edmonton because of the Benoit Pouliot signing. Certainly not ideal for a near 60 point winger to be dropped so Edmonton can justify giving Pouliot a ridiculous contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Done, make it happen. I would just take picks. This years draft is loaded beyond the top 10 / 1st round. The Flyers are not going to win anything this year anyway- let alone make the playoffs. Stockpile picks. Give me a 2nd for each of them and be done with it. Bygones are bygones. Agreed.. we already 'won' the Mike Richards trade with Simmonds alone. Getting a high pick in the draft for next year fits into the 'rebuilding' scheme Hextall's working on. Again.. I'm not saying we *should* trade him, but I guess the time has come that I'd be *OK* with trading him if it would help us in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.