JagerMeister Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Who is the greatest finnish player of all time? Kurri or Selanne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDI-Flyer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Love both of them as players but 5 Stanley Cups to 1 says Jari Kurri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Love both of them as players but 5 Stanley Cups to 1 says Jari Kurri.I dunno dude. Those 5 Stanley cups also have the names Gretzky, Messier + several other players names on them. not sure if counting cups is the way to go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Love both of them as players but 5 Stanley Cups to 1 says Jari Kurri.Not really fair to selanne, stanley cups are team awards and as j0e Th0rnton said, Those edmonton oilers teams had some of the greatest players of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDI-Flyer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I dunno dude. Those 5 Stanley cups also have the names Gretzky, Messier + several other players names on them. not sure if counting cups is the way to go here. Not really fair to selanne, stanley cups are team awards and as j0e Th0rnton said, Those edmonton oilers teams had some of the greatest players of all time. Sure they have those names... But Kurri was a huge part of those cups, not like he was the 13th forward on the team... There are plenty of other measuring points I could also mention, his playoff scoring history for example. Don't get me wrong I love Teemu as a player but I genuinely think that to a degree cups define a career. Whilst Teemu's was very successful (I still remember being stunned by his rookie season) it didn't have the same impact as Kurri's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 What the hell, let's bust out the Keltner List again... 1. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player in hockey while he played? Kurri- No Selanne - no 2. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player at his position while he played? Kurri - Yes, there were definitely times when Kurri was seen as the best RW in the NHL. (1) Selanne- Same goes for the Finnish Flash. (1) 3. Was he ever among the top 10 leaders in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc) Kurri- Yes. Kurri was top 10 in G 4 times, A 3 times, and Pts 6 times. (2) Selanne - Yes, Selanne was top 10 top in G 6 times, A 5 times, and Pts 7 times. (2) 4. Did the player ever lead the league in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc) Kurri led the league in G in 1986. (3) Selanne led the league in G in 1993, 1998 and '99. (3) 5. Did he ever have an impact on a deep playoff run? Kurri was a key player in 7 different playoffs runs of over 16 games player. (4) Selanne did this twice (4) 6. Was he a key member of a Stanley Cup winner? Kurri was a key member of Oilers Cup wins in 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988 and 1990. (5) Selanne won a Cup with the Ducks in 2007. (5) 7. Was he ever a team Captain? Kurri was never a Captain (5) Selanne was co-Captain of the Ducks with Paul Kariya in 1998 (6) 8. Was he ever team Captain of a Stanley Cup winner? No for each player 9. Did many regard him to be an excellent defensive player? Kurri - Yes. He finished in the top 10 in Selke voting 6 times, including 4 top 5 finishes. (6) Selanne - No, not really. (6) 10. Did many regard his physical play/hitting to be an intimidating factor? (NOTE: We're not looking for pests here) While not being creampuffs, neither player was physically intimidating. 11. Did he play alot/well after he passed his prime? Each played well past their prime. Kurri - (7) Selanne - (7) 12. Was he ever elected to the 1st or 2nd All-Star team? Kurri was a 1st AS in 1985 and '87, and 2nd AS in 1984, 1986 and '89. (8) Selanne was a 1st AS in 1993 and '97, and 2nd AS in 1998 and 1999. (8) 13. Are many any other players with similar statistics in the HHOF? Kurri - Absolutely (9) Selanne - Definitely (9) 14. Did he win a Hart, Lindsay, Norris or Vezina Trophy? (NOTE for goalies: prior to 1982, use 1st All-Star selections) Neither play won any of these awards. 15. Did he win a Conn Smythe Trophy? (pre-1965: see resources) Same again 16. Is there any evidence to suggest (due to circumstances beyond his control) that he was significantly better than is indicated by his statistics? (NOTE: We're looking for things like time missed due to global conflict, world politics, league wars, etc... NOT INJURY!) I don't see the argument Kurri - (9) Selanne - (9) 17. Did the player bring bring positive and intense focus on the game of hockey? While both were superstar players who did their teams proud, but neither was a rock star whose fame transcended the sport. No Kurri (9) Selanne (9) 18. Was the player innovative, inspire a new style of play, or cause the league to change any of its rules as a result of the way he played? Again, no to both. Not very shockingly at all, the hockey version of the Keltner test sees them both very similarly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 @JR Ewing You forgot #19 Did either player have a cool nickname? I'm not sure if Kurri had a nickname but there was only one "Finnish Flash". Selanne is also the all-time leader in scoring at the Olympics with 43 points. Selanne has also won with Finland 3 bronze medals and 1 silver. Kurri only one Bronze medal. The Winner of this debate is Temmu Selanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Sure they have those names... But Kurri was a huge part of those cups, not like he was the 13th forward on the team... There are plenty of other measuring points I could also mention, his playoff scoring history for example. Don't get me wrong I love Teemu as a player but I genuinely think that to a degree cups define a career. Whilst Teemu's was very successful (I still remember being stunned by his rookie season) it didn't have the same impact as Kurri's.Kurri was a better playoff performer then selanne AINEC I believe jari Kurri scored 19 goals in one postseason in 18 games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Kurri was a better playoff performer then selanne AINEC I believe jari Kurri scored 19 goals in one postseason in 18 games... Kurri played with Gretzky. Heck he could bank 6 or 7 in off me in a playoff run. Kurri was a great player, but his stats are inflated due to the Gretz factor. He scored 3 playoff goals the year gretzky was traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Kurri played with Gretzky. Heck he could bank 6 or 7 in off me in a playoff run. Kurri was a great player, but his stats are inflated due to the Gretz factor. He scored 3 playoff goals the year gretzky was traded.And then the next year without gretzky he had 10 goals and 15 assists for 25 points...."product of gretzky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 @JR Ewing You forgot #19 Did either player have a cool nickname? I'm not sure if Kurri had a nickname but there was only one "Finnish Flash". Selanne is also the all-time leader in scoring at the Olympics with 43 points. Selanne has also won with Finland 3 bronze medals and 1 silver. Kurri only one Bronze medal. The Winner of this debate is Temmu SelanneSelanne never hit 20 points in a playoff run. Jari Kurri was clearly the better playoff performer while selanne was better in the olympics, its pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDI-Flyer Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Selanne is also the all-time leader in scoring at the Olympics with 43 points. Selanne has also won with Finland 3 bronze medals and 1 silver. Kurri only one Bronze medal.The Winner of this debate is Temmu Selanne How many Olympic tournaments was Kurri able to play in hf? IIRC NHL players weren't eligible to participate in the Olympics for the majority of Kurri's career... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Kurri is the latchkey kid of hockey players. He's not a bad player, but his numbers can't be taken seriously because of where and who he played with. They are GREATLY inflated and not all a product of his own play. Selanne did more for Anaheim in the later years Kurri did for any team imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I guess we've come to the point where we can't take the career totals of a 600 goal scorer seriously, as if Jari Kurri were the only guy to have fantastic teammates. Look at the list of all time leaders in any major category, and point me in the direction of a guy who did it all by himself. I think it's only common sense to say that Kurri was made better by having Gretzky as a teammate, but to just wave the accomplishments of a man who scored more goals than all but 17 other men in the history of the league, as if Wayne Gretzky banked 601 goals in off Kurri's ass, is a bit much. And yes, I think Selanne was better than Kurri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 And then the next year without gretzky he had 10 goals and 15 assists for 25 points...."product of gretzky" 10 goals is very good. It ain't 19 though. Like I said, Kurri was a great player. But he benefitted from playing with the Great One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 10 goals is very good. It ain't 19 though. Like I said, Kurri was a great player. But he benefitted from playing with the Great One.Ofc, everyone benefits from gretzky but he also put out 15 assists, thats the second highest assists he got in a postseason. He was just as good a playmaker as he was a goalscorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Kurri is the latchkey kid of hockey players. He's not a bad player, but his numbers can't be taken seriously because of where and who he played with. They are GREATLY inflated and not all a product of his own play. Selanne did more for Anaheim in the later years Kurri did for any team imo.Kurri`s shot percentage is 19%, he was obviously a gifted goalscorer. And Kurri still managed 44 goals and 102 points without gretzky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ofc, everyone benefits from gretzky but he also put out 15 assists, thats the second highest assists he got in a postseason. He was just as good a playmaker as he was a goalscorer. As I mentioned...twice, he was a great player. But theres only ever been one player banned from hockey pools, and thats Gretzky. And Kurris stats were inflated because of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 @JagerMeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 How many Olympic tournaments was Kurri able to play in hf? IIRC NHL players weren't eligible to participate in the Olympics for the majority of Kurri's career... He played in 2, the first one in 1980 Finland didn't receive a medal. Then he missed the next 4 and he would have played in 6 Olympics. Selanne would have played in 3 of those 4 missed Olympics also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 As I mentioned...twice, he was a great player. But theres only ever been one player banned from hockey pools, and thats Gretzky. And Kurris stats were inflated because of him.Thing is though, you also have to be really good to be able to complement gretzky like that so well, somehow, other linemates that played with gretzky still didnt put up the numbers Kurri did with the exception of Bernie nichols except Jari Kurri proved he was capable to be an elite player without gretzky by his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 @JagerMeister Yes...just not as elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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