Flyers-Islanders Gameday

[ruxpin]

I never got on board with the criticism of any coach, or player for that matter, for what they say to the press. What do we really expect them to say? I expect them to give away as little of what they saw wrong as possible, let the other coaches figure it out. A coach could quack at the reporters if he prepares his guys well, as far as I'm concerned. What's important, IMO, is what guidance they give their players.

The problem with Berube is that I don't think he's giving any real guidance behind the scenes, either.

I think all of that is fair.

I'm kind of with you about what they say in the presser. What is he supposed to say? "I've been given a crap team?" "The coaching sucks? "

But I'm also with you in suspecting there's more behind it. I don't know if it's expression or tone or posture or what. But he seems out of answers.

Kind of like how Andy Reid said the exact same "blah blah blah. Time's yours" when the Eagles were good and when the Eagles were horrible. But there was a whole different feel when he was completely out of answers.

It's not so much what Berube is saying, but he seems like he's completely out of answers.

[murraycraven]

After the game Berube said the Flyers did not compete hard enough, surprise surprise. Is that the only sound bite he learned in his press conferences 101 class? Guy is like a see and say, just pull the chord and you will hear the same thing.

The cow goes moo, Berube goes compete harder!

Can't stand the guy, can't wait until he is gone.

The cow is dead sami!

[JagerMeister]

Atleast Voracek got 2 points...

[Hexy27]

The flyers lack leadership Captain G is not very good at being captain or leading this team to busy grabbing arse .. .

 

I think G is being a good captain.  He's leading by example on the ice.  Him and Voracek are scoring.  I see G checking, taking the body to people, hunting down pucks and I haven't seen him phone anything in this season.  What more can the guy do? Being a good captain helps elevate already great players to a higher level.  I don't believe there is a captain in this league that could elevate the AHL level talent on this team to a competitive NHL level.  Traditionally the captain takes alot of heat on a team but I don't think the captain is a problem this go around.

[radoran]

At least they didn't keep Gervais to pair with Streit . Totally misremembered the top/top pair bit, my bad.

 

Also: Donovan, De Haan, Hamonic all played for the Isles in 2011-2012 and this year    (Yes, I realize that Donovan and De Haan were callups, just busting your chops) 

 

I do (and did) get what you're saying re: MacDonald and Streit, though I don't think Streit is/was a mistake. Guy doesn't take a lot of punishment so he should produce until his contract ends - Defensively he's not bad, either, until it comes time to move a guy out of the crease. He might even recoup more than what the Flyers gave up if he's moved at the deadline or in the offseason. One season less on his contract and I would like it better. I think I was advocating not trading for MacDonald before the trade, maybe I complained right after. My opinion hasn't changed on that.

 

I don't see Streit as a "problem" but I don't see him as part of the "solution" either. For me, he was another "win now" move from Homer where he "needed" a guy for next year and signed him for four years.

 

Streit is perfectly serviceable - I'd happily have him on my FHL squad - but he has never been on a team that has really gone anywhere or done anything. As a "mentor" what is he going to "teach" guys? How to lose in the second round of the playoffs?

 

Guy has 25 playoff games in an eight year career.  For me, he's Sergei Gonchar without the hardware or, to use another former Hab comparison - Sheldon Souray.

 

To me, he was a stopgap bridge to get from TImonen to whoever was going to replace Timonen. Which is fine, as far as it goes. I just don't think it goes very far for this team - or, really, for any other team Streit's been on.

 

And we don't really know who's going to replace TImonen.

 

I wouldn't at all mind getting something in a trade, but (there's always a but) he's not a "rental" for a team, he's got two more years after this on a 35+ deal.

[murraycraven]

I think G is being a good captain.  He's leading by example on the ice.  Him and Voracek are scoring.  I see G checking, taking the body to people, hunting down pucks and I haven't seen him phone anything in this season.  What more can the guy do? Being a good captain helps elevate already great players to a higher level.  I don't believe there is a captain in this league that could elevate the AHL level talent on this team to a competitive NHL level.  Traditionally the captain takes alot of heat on a team but I don't think the captain is a problem this go around.

 

 

THIS!!

 

For Christ's sake can we just call a duck a duck?  Messier could captain this Team and they would still be losing... this is not on G. 

[radoran]

I don't believe there is a captain in this league that could elevate the AHL level talent on this team to a competitive NHL level.

 

 

THIS!!

 

For Christ's sake can we just call a duck a duck?  Messier could captain this Team and they would still be losing...

 

 

I went through this on another thread. I just don't see where this is "AHL level talent"

 

Forwards

1) Giroux - Hart finalist last season

2) Voracek - leading the league in points

3) Couturier - the other half of the trade "we" unquestionably "won" with Columbus

4) Simmonds - should close in on 30 goals again for the fourth season in a row (28, 15 in 45, 29, currently 16 in 47)

5) BSchenn - a 20/40 player at 22

6) Laughton - late round "gem"

7) Bellemare/Raffl/Read - three "great FA signings"

8) Rinaldo - "solid energy player"

9) Lecavalier - scored 20 last season, not a fit for this team but not an "AHL level talent"

10) Umburglar - OK, yeah, I'll give you this one

 

Defense

1) Coburn - not a #1, but not "AHL level talent"

2) Coliacovo/del Zotto - solid FA pickups, low risk/high reward

3) Grossmann - the result of the trade "we" unquestionably "won" with Dallas

4) MacDonald - overpaid, but not "AHL level"

5) Schultz - classic #7

6) Streit - perfectly serviceable, going to hit 40+ points again

 

7) LSchenn - the result of the trade "we" unquestionably "won" with Tronno... Oh, wait...

 

Goalie

1) Mason - former Calder winner, seems to have regains form

2) Emery - competent backup hampered by bad hip

3) Zepp - "the Next Tim Thomas"

 

That's not an "AHL level" talent pool there by any measuring stick.

 

There's more than a little argument to be made about an AHL caliber coach, however...

[Hexy27]

I went through this on another thread. I just don't see where this is "AHL level talent"

 

Forwards

1) Giroux - Hart finalist last season

2) Voracek - leading the league in points

3) Couturier - the other half of the trade "we" unquestionably "won" with Columbus

4) Simmonds - should close in on 30 goals again for the fourth season in a row (28, 15 in 45, 29, currently 16 in 47)

5) BSchenn - a 20/40 player at 22

6) Laughton - late round "gem"

7) Bellemare/Raffl/Read - three "great FA signings"

8) Rinaldo - "solid energy player"

9) Lecavalier - scored 20 last season, not a fit for this team but not an "AHL level talent"

10) Umburglar - OK, yeah, I'll give you this one

 

Defense

1) Coburn - not a #1, but not "AHL level talent"

2) Coliacovo/del Zotto - solid FA pickups, low risk/high reward

3) Grossmann - the result of the trade "we" unquestionably "won" with Dallas

4) MacDonald - overpaid, but not "AHL level"

5) Schultz - classic #7

6) Streit - perfectly serviceable, going to hit 40+ points again

 

7) LSchenn - the result of the trade "we" unquestionably "won" with Tronno... Oh, wait...

 

Goalie

1) Mason - former Calder winner, seems to have regains form

2) Emery - competent backup hampered by bad hip

3) Zepp - "the Next Tim Thomas"

 

That's not an "AHL level" talent pool there by any measuring stick.

 

There's more than a little argument to be made about an AHL caliber coach, however...

 

This may not be an AHL team at every spot but they certainly are not playing like a consistent NHL team.  I don't care what Read has done in the past he looks like an AHL'er this year.  6-10 on your forwards list are playing at an AHL level (regardless of their history).  Laughton is a bright spot but I still think he needs time in the AHL to become a NHL'er in the future.

 

The defense reads like a group of 5-6 (maybe 7-8) defenseman at best.  So while some of them are above AHL level (Streit, Coburn, Grossman) do any of them install any fear to the opposition? We don't have a top or second tier pair.  We have just a bunch of 3rd tier defensemen at best.  How can anyone be competitive in the NHL with that level of defense?

 

The goalies I believe are suffering as a result of the defenseman and the forwards.  Often the Flyers fall behind and the result is poor defensive play while the team tries to catch up.  Even if the team is up on the opposition our defense leaves our goalies out to dry.  I have no issues with the goalies (and that is pretty rare for a Flyers' team).

[radoran]

This may not be an AHL team at every spot but they certainly are not playing like a consistent NHL team.

 

And why is that? Hmmmm...

 

There's more than a little argument to be made about an AHL caliber coach, however...

 

6-10 on your forwards list are playing at an AHL level (regardless of their history). Laughton is a bright spot but I still think he needs time in the AHL to become a NHL'er in the future.

 

6-10 is the third and fourth lines. There aren't a lot of teams with "better" talent down there - they just get more out of them.

 

Again, if you have players who were successful under the previous coach - say, Read, for example - who are now playing "AHL level" what changed?

 

What is it about, say, Chicago's Smith/Shaw/Kruger/Teravinen that is obviously better than Raffl/Bellemare/Read/Rinaldo?

 

Heck look at Grabner/Neilsen/Bailey/Grabovski/Lee/Boulton - is that significantly better than the Flyers' bottom 6? They play for the Metro-leading team that just cleaned the Flyers clock 7-4 yesterday.

 

The defense reads like a group of 5-6 (maybe 7-8) defenseman at best. So while some of them are above AHL level (Streit, Coburn, Grossman) do any of them install any fear to the opposition? We don't have a top or second tier pair. We have just a bunch of 3rd tier defensemen at best. How can anyone be competitive in the NHL with that level of defense?

 

I completely agree that the defense is a hodgepodge thrown together by an incompetent GM who overvalued players for reasons which remain strange and mysterious. They do need to work some serious changes to overcome the damage done,

 

That doesn't make them "AHL level" - it makes them a badly composed group of players. That I don't disagree with!

 

I have no issues with the goalies (and that is pretty rare for a Flyers' team).

 

QFT

[fanaticV3.0]

Flyers start Zepp again. Starting forward line is Rinaldo-Raffl-Simmonds?

 

No, they did not.....did they? Really?

[radoran]

No, they did not.....did they? Really?

 

Oh, yes they he did.

[Hexy27]

Again, if you have players who were successful under the previous coach - say, Read, for example - who are now playing "AHL level" what changed?



What is it about, say, Chicago's Smith/Shaw/Kruger/Teravinen that is obviously better than Raffl/Bellemare/Read/Rinaldo?



Heck look at Grabner/Neilsen/Bailey/Grabovski/Lee/Boulton - is that significantly better than the Flyers' bottom 6? They play for the Metro-leading team that just cleaned the Flyers clock 7-4 yesterday

 

I don't disagree with you about the coach.  I would love to see Berube replaced after the season is over and I wasn't too thrilled with him being placed in the position in the first place.  The question remains why did these players (with the exception of Bellemare) play better a year ago with the same coach? I don't think the captain is the reason.  Will a coaching change turn this roster around? I honestly don't know and I think that is part of the reason we are all so frustrated.

 

That doesn't make them "AHL level" - it makes them a badly composed group of players. That I don't disagree with!

 

I wonder if some of the better AHL teams could go toe to toe with this defense.  Individually they are above AHL level players.  As a collective group of players I think we both agree they are awful but I think they might be even worse than you think! :-P

[AJgoal]

No, they did not.....did they? Really?

 

The Isles announcers sounded as surprised saying it as I was hearing it...

 

But hey, Rinaldo had more points yesterday than the other two combined, so maybe he's on to something...

[radoran]

The question remains why did these players (with the exception of Bellemare) play better a year ago with the same coach?

 

Well, for one thing Berube did say he didn't really change up a whole lot of Laviolette's system ("didn't have a full training camp") and this year we're seeing the "Berube way" implemented full force.

 

Unfortunately, after that "full training camp" they came out like a dog again and then after the "mini camp" in-season they laid more eggs than a chicken coop.

 

I do not see that as "coincidence".

 

I don't think the captain is the reason.

 

I agree here - it's not "all on G" by any stretch. But I don't think G has any answers for it, either.

 

Will a coaching change turn this roster around? I honestly don't know and I think that is part of the reason we are all so frustrated.

 

Clearly there needs to be some shakeup on the blue line. Without a competent defense, you're going to be hard-pressed to do much with the forwards or the goalie to change it (see: Oilers, Edmonton).

 

Might Berube's "system" (whatever it is) work "better" with a better blue line? I think that's undeniable. Would it make that much difference? I'm just not sold on that, either.

 

I haven't seen anything from "one of the smartest hockey minds Homer knows" that makes me think so.

[fanaticV3.0]

Oh, yes they he did.

 

Does that move actually ever work? I can think of a couple times where a goon/4th liner works, but not on the first. McCarthy and Brashear had ok numbers at times here, but that was usually no higher than the 3rd line.

[fanaticV3.0]

I don't disagree with you about the coach.  I would love to see Berube replaced after the season is over and I wasn't too thrilled with him being placed in the position in the first place.  The question remains why did these players (with the exception of Bellemare) play better a year ago with the same coach? I don't think the captain is the reason.  Will a coaching change turn this roster around? I honestly don't know and I think that is part of the reason we are all so frustrated.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if some of the better AHL teams could go toe to toe with this defense.  Individually they are above AHL level players.  As a collective group of players I think we both agree they are awful but I think they might be even worse than you think! :-P

 

No. They definitely need to shake the roster up a bit. If all they do is fire the coach, that's a problem. But if they fire him and make some moves, at least they're trying.

[fanaticV3.0]

The Isles announcers sounded as surprised saying it as I was hearing it...

 

But hey, Rinaldo had more points yesterday than the other two combined, so maybe he's on to something...

 

Can I just stop you right there?

[radoran]

Does that move actually ever work? I can think of a couple times where a goon/4th liner works, but not on the first. McCarthy and Brashear had ok numbers at times here, but that was usually no higher than the 3rd line.

 

Just because they took opening faceoff doesn't make them the first line.

 

There's no way that Raffl is centering the first line on a team that has Giroux on it, not to mention Schenn, Couturier, Lecavalier...

 

And a better question might be why is Raffl centering a line anyway? Guy has been a career winger and we're converting him to center at 26 in the NHL!?!? On a team that already has more centers than it knows what to do with!?!?

 

What's next? They sign Ville Leino to play 1st line center? Oh, no, wait that was Buffalo. How'd that work out for them?

 

Next, why put Simmonds on that line!?

 

I'm running out of extraneous punctuation so I'll leave it here.

[fanaticV3.0]

Just because they took opening faceoff doesn't make them the first line.

 

There's no way that Raffl is centering the first line on a team that has Giroux on it, not to mention Schenn, Couturier, Lecavalier...

 

And a better question might be why is Raffl centering a line anyway? Guy has been a career winger and we're converting him to center at 26 in the NHL!?!? On a team that already has more centers than it knows what to do with!?!?

 

What's next? They sign Ville Leino to play 1st line center? Oh, no, wait that was Buffalo. How'd that work out for them?

 

Next, why put Simmonds on that line!?

 

I'm running out of extraneous punctuation so I'll leave it here.

 

1st line, starting line, makes no difference to me - the gimmick almost never works. If you are going to do it, the guy has to be able to play (like Claude Lemieux).

 

Because Berube is out of ideas and desperate. It's the same rationale of putting Rinaldo on that line. He is just grasping for anything now, because he knows this organ-I-zation and knows he's likely going to get fired somewhere between now and the beginning of next season (occasionally we like to give them a few games into the next year).

[AJgoal]

Can I just stop you right there?

 

Simmonds: 0-0-0, -1

Raffl: 0-0-0, even

Rinaldo: 0-1-1, +1

 

Tongue planted, of course, firmly in cheek re:  the rest.

[murraycraven]

Wait, so you mean that with Rinaldo in the lineup we still lost the game AND the other Team was not paralyzed by fear of what Rinaldo might do?  Proposterous! 

 

 

 

[fanaticV3.0]

Simmonds: 0-0-0, -1

Raffl: 0-0-0, even

Rinaldo: 0-1-1, +1

 

Tongue planted, of course, firmly in cheek re:  the rest.

 

I don't give a rats ass about an assist (his one of 2 this year btw) in a 7-4 blowout, especially when talking about a guy with 20 career points on an awful team.