Phil Kessel - Where do you see him going?

[WordsOfWisdom]

Won't happen. I could see the Penguins adding Kessel but not at the expense of Malkin.

 

So you'd rather part with Crosby?   

 

Kessel is the #1 player on the Leafs (without question). Malkin is the #2 player on the Penguins. Technically it's a line 1 player being traded for a line 2 player. It would be like trading Ron Francis for Jaromir Jagr, assuming you didn't already have Jagr.

 

But hey, if you have a 1st round draft pick and 8 mil in cap space, by all means, you could have Kessel today. 

 

 

Apologies to Jagr for comparing him and Kessel lol. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

@WordsOfWisdom

 

I get why the Leafs do it.

 

But Kessel is nowhere near Malkins league as a player though. I know he's a very good goal scorer. But he's not very good at anything else (that doesn't involve cookies and fishing). And that contract....

 

All this talk of cookies is making me hungry...

[Polaris922]

So you'd rather part with Crosby?

Kessel is the #1 player on the Leafs (without question). Malkin is the #2 player on the Penguins. Technically it's a line 1 player being traded for a line 2 player. It would be like trading Ron Francis for Jaromir Jagr, assuming you didn't already have Jagr.

But hey, if you have a 1st round draft pick and 8 mil in cap space, by all means, you could have Kessel today.

Apologies to Jagr for comparing him and Kessel lol.

Their line position on the team is irrelevant. Depth doesn't mean they're worth less. Given the opportunity to choose between Kessel and Malkin, I don't know anyone who knows about hockey taking Kessel. I respect his talent, but he's not getting traded even up for Malkin.

Kessel is no Jagr, either. The Pens offered a #1 pick in Pouliot. Technically he was #8 but first rounder. I don't know the details but that was a pretty good offer. Sutter is solid #3 center who many feel would be #2 elsewhere. Pouliot seems to be on the rise and looks to be a top pairing defenseman of the future.

[BluPuk]

I see him going to San Hose. Not sure what we get back, but he has to go anyway.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I see him going to San Hose. Not sure what we get back, but he has to go anyway.

I doubt it. The team is full of forwards. Our prospect pool is full of promising forwards too.

 

Our holes are top 4 right side Dman(And Wilson wants young) and a starting goalie.

 

The only guys on the leafs being looked at are the two goalies since I would call Reilly untouchable.

[WordsOfWisdom]

Their line position on the team is irrelevant. Depth doesn't mean they're worth less. Given the opportunity to choose between Kessel and Malkin, I don't know anyone who knows about hockey taking Kessel. I respect his talent, but he's not getting traded even up for Malkin.

Kessel is no Jagr, either. The Pens offered a #1 pick in Pouliot. Technically he was #8 but first rounder. I don't know the details but that was a pretty good offer. Sutter is solid #3 center who many feel would be #2 elsewhere. Pouliot seems to be on the rise and looks to be a top pairing defenseman of the future.

 

I agree. I really do. But it's not Kessel for Malkin being traded. It's 8 million per year for 9.5 million per year being traded. It's all about salary in a cap league, not the quality of the player. Trades don't have to be even anymore. Chicago has cap issues. You're about to watch them trade one of Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Hossa, etc. for NOTHING in return. It'll be "You take Toews and his salary, and in exchange we don't have to pay him anymore so we can fit under the cap. Thanks."

 

If money were no object, I'd have Crosby, Malkin, and Toews on my team at center. Then I'd have Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kessel and company on the wing. But you can't have a stacked team with a salary cap.

 

Every GM decision today goes like this:

• What's our salary cap?
• How much should we allocate to our forwards?
• How much should we allocate to our defence?
• How much should we allocate to our goalies?

Example:

• If we sign Malkin at 9.5 mil, what do we have left for our forwards? Oh crap, we lose player X on line two because we can't afford to keep him. What if we downgrade to Kessel at 8 mil, stick him with Crosby, move Malkin out, and acquire player Y for line two? Are we further ahead? Oh good. That gives us two strong lines.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

I doubt it. The team is full of forwards. Our prospect pool is full of promising forwards too.

 

Our holes are top 4 right side Dman(And Wilson wants young) and a starting goalie.

 

The only guys on the leafs being looked at are the two goalies since I would call Reilly untouchable.

 

I'd say both goalies in Toronto are available, but Reimer has zero value right now and Bernier has "meh" value. Toronto gains nothing by trading either of them other than to just make change. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

I'd say both goalies in Toronto are available, but Reimer has zero value right now and Bernier has "meh" value. Toronto gains nothing by trading either of them other than to just make change. 

Reimer is probably worth more than you think. Maybe a 4th round pick.

 

He was at one point "Optimus Reim". Supposedly the savior to leaf fans in Halifax. But man do they turn on goalies quick.

 

Bernier's Toronto career looks strangely similar. Had a standout year, then meh. But I put that more on the team in front of them.

 

The only good thing about San Jose being the only team looking for a goalie is that we dictate the price for most of them. At least until mid season injuries send teams looking. If someone wants too much, we can just say "ok, we will go deal with someone else". We have UFA options, and those UFA's can't demand the moon or they may find themselves sitting out an entire year until someone else needs a goalie.

 

Once the first shoe dropped with Lehner+ a veteran to a division rival for a mid 1st, prices for a goalie dropped back to earth. Vancouver is beyond pissed they could only get a 3rd for Lack. Sather wanted several seconds for Talbot, but realized he was not going to get it, so he ended up with a very late 2nd, mid 3rd and another late pick.

 

If Talbot didn't get more than a late 2nd, I doubt Bernier will. So you may be right.

[WordsOfWisdom]

Reimer is probably worth more than you think. Maybe a 4th round pick.

 

He was at one point "Optimus Reim". Supposedly the savior to leaf fans in Halifax. But man do they turn on goalies quick.

 

Bernier's Toronto career looks strangely similar. Had a standout year, then meh. But I put that more on the team in front of them.

 

The only good thing about San Jose being the only team looking for a goalie is that we dictate the price for most of them. At least until mid season injuries send teams looking. If someone wants too much, we can just say "ok, we will go deal with someone else". We have UFA options, and those UFA's can't demand the moon or they may find themselves sitting out an entire year until someone else needs a goalie.

 

Once the first shoe dropped with Lehner+ a veteran to a division rival for a mid 1st, prices for a goalie dropped back to earth. Vancouver is beyond pissed they could only get a 3rd for Lack. Sather wanted several seconds for Talbot, but realized he was not going to get it, so he ended up with a very late 2nd, mid 3rd and another late pick.

 

If Talbot didn't get more than a late 2nd, I doubt Bernier will. So you may be right.

 

Goaltending is one of those fickle positions where most of them are not consistently great. Unless you get a Carey Price or Henrik Lundqvist type of goalie, you never know what you have between the pipes.

 

Bernier is just right in the murky middle where all goalies are. Absolutely average. Reimer hasn't elevated his game to the next level yet, so he's still just an unproven backup goalie.

 

I think one of them is going to be traded for sure this off-season. We shall see. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

Goaltending is one of those fickle positions where most of them are not consistently great. Unless you get a Carey Price or Henrik Lundqvist type of goalie, you never know what you have between the pipes.

 

Bernier is just right in the murky middle where all goalies are. Absolutely average. Reimer hasn't elevated his game to the next level yet, so he's still just an unproven backup goalie.

 

I think one of them is going to be traded for sure this off-season. We shall see. 

Well, we have a boatload of young forward prospects.

Ill assume Meier is untouchable already. He projects as a "safe" pick, with top 6 certainty, but Corey Perry-lite ceiling.

Tierney is as good as graduated in my eyes, and my favorite young player on the Sharks.

 

But in the farm, we have Goldobin, Donskoi, Jevpalovs, Labanc, O'Regan, Chartier. Top 6 potential in all of them. I am hoping Donskoi makes the team out of camp.

 

Noah Rod is another prospect I am high on, for different reasons. He projects to be a Kruger type perfect defensive 4th liner. No scoring touch at all, but damn!

[WordsOfWisdom]

Well, we have a boatload of young forward prospects.

Ill assume Meier is untouchable already. He projects as a "safe" pick, with top 6 certainty, but Corey Perry-lite ceiling.

Tierney is as good as graduated in my eyes, and my favorite young player on the Sharks.

 

But in the farm, we have Goldobin, Donskoi, Jevpalovs, Labanc, O'Regan, Chartier. Top 6 potential in all of them. I am hoping Donskoi makes the team out of camp.

 

Noah Rod is another prospect I am high on, for different reasons. He projects to be a Kruger type perfect defensive 4th liner. No scoring touch at all, but damn!

 

Yeah, the Sharks are turning over a new leaf. (No pun intended.)  

[Polaris922]

I agree. I really do. But it's not Kessel for Malkin being traded. It's 8 million per year for 9.5 million per year being traded. It's all about salary in a cap league, not the quality of the player. Trades don't have to be even anymore. Chicago has cap issues. You're about to watch them trade one of Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Hossa, etc. for NOTHING in return. It'll be "You take Toews and his salary, and in exchange we don't have to pay him anymore so we can fit under the cap. Thanks."

If money were no object, I'd have Crosby, Malkin, and Toews on my team at center. Then I'd have Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kessel and company on the wing. But you can't have a stacked team with a salary cap.

Every GM decision today goes like this:

• What's our salary cap?
  
• How much should we allocate to our forwards?
  
• How much should we allocate to our defence?
  
• How much should we allocate to our goalies?
  

Example:

• If we sign Malkin at 9.5 mil, what do we have left for our forwards? Oh crap, we lose player X on line two because we can't afford to keep him. What if we downgrade to Kessel at 8 mil, stick him with Crosby, move Malkin out, and acquire player Y for line two? Are we further ahead? Oh good. That gives us two strong lines.
  

Scuderi and Sutter clear enough salary cap that you have the Leafs keep $1 mill and it works fine. You don't trade a guy like Malkin for Kessel then have a weak second line. Defeats the purpose of trying to upgrade your top six. If they won't eat that &1 mill you find another way to clear it.. You employ y a lesser 4th liner to compensate if possible.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Scuderi and Sutter clear enough salary cap that you have the Leafs keep $1 mill and it works fine. You don't trade a guy like Malkin for Kessel then have a weak second line. Defeats the purpose of trying to upgrade your top six. If they won't eat that &1 mill you find another way to clear it.. You employ y a lesser 4th liner to compensate if possible.

It made no sense to me anyways.

 

When they needed a scoring Winger for Crosby, they could just move Malkin to wing and he is already better than Kessel

[J0e Th0rnton]

Yeah, the Sharks are turning over a new leaf. (No pun intended.)  

[Polaris922]

It made no sense to me anyways.

When they needed a scoring Winger for Crosby, they could just move Malkin to wing and he is already better than Kessel

I think they're trying to add though not just consolidate. Their top six is thinning.

[notfondajane]

I don't like the idea! I would like to see the Pens acquire a guy who is better defensively than Kessel!

[Polaris922]

Except the last how many playoff ousts were due to a lack of scoring...

[Podein25]

 

I don't like the idea! I would like to see the Pens acquire a guy who is better defensively than Kessel! 

 

 

 

 

 

You guys shoulda jumped on Rinaldo! He's better defensively than Kessel

[flyercanuck]

Except the last how many playoff ousts were due to a lack of scoring...

 

 

Fleury sucks....he had zero goals in any of those playoffs.

[notfondajane]

Except the last how many playoff ousts were due to a lack of scoring...

if you can't keep it out of your net it doesn't matter how many you sore!

[Polaris922]

if you can't keep it out of your net it doesn't matter how many you sore!

In 14 of our past 17 playoff losses, the Penguins scored ONE GOAL OR LESS. So by your thinking it's Fleury's and Vokoun's faults for not having shutouts in 14 of the past 17 playoff games???? Come on man ...

[flyercanuck]

[BluPuk]

So far, Shanny has delivered as promised and more. I have no reason at this point to doubt that he will in fact, "clean house". There is no deadline yet.

 

Kessel is circling the drain as we speak, and so, I hope are JVR, and Bozak. Maybe even Kadri. I've been wrong before, but it's rare...

[Polaris922]

So far, Shanny has delivered as promised and more. I have no reason at this point to doubt that he will in fact, "clean house". There is no deadline yet.

Kessel is circling the drain as we speak, and so, I hope are JVR, and Bozak. Maybe even Kadri. I've been wrong before, but it's rare...

Glad you're happy with the trade. We sure are in Pittsburgh.

[WordsOfWisdom]

Glad you're happy with the trade. We sure are in Pittsburgh.

 

Kessel can score goals, no doubt about it. With Crosby and Malkin there, he should have the best numbers of his career in Pittsburgh.

 

*BUT* ....... I'm guessing the Penguins are going to be too "top heavy" to be a serious threat in the East. Kessel will disappear for long stretches at a time, and the Penguins are going to take a step backward defensively. It'll be interesting to see how he fits in there and whether team chemistry becomes an issue. 

 

I still think they should have moved Malkin and used that money to upgrade in other areas.