9/28 Versus Rangers

[brelic]

And, no, I will never get tired of saying so.

 

Neither will I. He adds very little value, and I think we have better parts to replace him. The issue will always be that he can't be moved and he sucks up so much cap space that scratching him for long periods is hard to justify.

[murraycraven]

Oh, wait - they gave up two draft picks and a player to get him. So they've got that going for them.

 

we discussed this before Rad - stop putting that little factoid in there!  I need not be reminded of this stellar deal!

[murraycraven]

Really disappointing about VLC.  He doesn't look any different, and I was hoping the new coach would make the difference.  I wonder if he just completely checked out at this point.

 

Dont worry MD...   ask the King of Knuts - this Coach will make everyone better simply b/c he is not Berube

[Bakanekimiwa]

I don't think him and Mcdud make a good pair....but who does look good with Mcdud. I like what i've seen from Gudas.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Gudas play with MDV a good offensive threat with a good physical stay at home Dman.

 

I just don't know what you do with all the other assorted parts on the blueline....who is your #1 D pair??? Streit/Schultz??? Not encouraging.

 

 

McDud(aka Chicken Nugget) was horrendous last night. I keyed in on him every time he was out there and when you do that, it's easy to see how he makes everyone's corsi numbers get worse. He's just terrible. Makes all the wrong decisions. There was a play when he saw Rick Nash bearing down on him and he basically just took a dive and tried to draw a penalty. It was almost as if he knew he didn't have a chance at winning that puck battle, so he valiantly tried to just draw a penalty rather than staying on his skates and battling.

 

My summation of his evening... what a p*ssy. 

[murraycraven]

McDud(aka Chicken Nugget) was horrendous last night. I keyed in on him every time he was out there and when you do that, it's easy to see how he makes everyone's corsi numbers get worse. He's just terrible. Makes all the wrong decisions. There was a play when he saw Rick Nash bearing down on him and he basically just took a dive and tried to draw a penalty. It was almost as if he knew he didn't have a chance at winning that puck battle, so he valiantly tried to just draw a penalty rather than staying on his skates and battling.

 

My summation of his evening... what a p*ssy. 

 

 

Amen Bak... it was really **that** bad...

[King Knut]

Greetings:

 

Granted, it was still preseason but we're close to the final roster.  Her is my take:

 

1)  Mason seems to thrive on seeing rubber.

 

2) Gudas looked like he is willing to hit folks.

 

3)  The offense looked challenged.

 

4)  The O and B looked like they were in loss avoidance mode rather than playing to win.

 

I am glad a good D is developing but we just don't look like a team with talented forwards.

 

Best,

 

Howie

 

What the hell was with the Rangers and all the rough stuff?  It's the damn preseason?  I don't understand WTF their deal is. 

Is there anyone on the Flyers who isn't hurt now?

 

I'm not worried about the Offense.  They've been feeling their way through a new system for all of a week or so. 

 

And why would the be in "Trying to win" mode now?  Why the hell the Rangers were taking things so seriously and dangerously is beyond me.  Wait until they count to start with the slashing and the intent to injure stuff so we can debate it's value properly.  Right now, it just makes you look like an team of asses.  And yeah, I'm looking at you Yandle. 

[murraycraven]

I don't understand WTF their deal is. 

 

it is hockey - not tennis...   Good Teams play hard every single time the puck is dropped.

[King Knut]

Another new coach, another slow start to the game. Dominated in both play and SOG. This has been their MO for years. Why can't they be ready when the puck drops? Sounds familiar

Blowing a two goal lead in the 3rd period. Sounds familiar

Mason played his ass off and gets nothing to show for it. Sounds familiar

 

DUDE... wait until they count to expect the team to give a rip or get down on them for not holding a lead.  Maybe it's a problem or maybe "winning" isn't what their focused on right now.

Personally, I'd be more ticked if they looked desperate to win this meaningless preseason game.

 

I'm more concerned about all the damn injuries (can we get Koneckny back for his 9 games now that Rafl might be really hurt?) and their "desire to win".

 

If Hakstol is half the coach we actually need, this team isn't going to be focused on "winning" for a few months.  Hopefully they still manage to win a few games, but They need to relearn how to play the game and that's going to get you beat occasionally.   Especially in the preseason. 

[King Knut]

@hf101- Agreed. I am just hoping that Hakstol/Keenan 2.0 implementing an actual system for the players to follow will help move the current roster in a better direction.

 

I hope so too.  If it is happening, it's going to take a while to stick.  We shouldn't freak out if they're not "awesome" to start.  While most people assume we won't make the playoffs again, I certainly don't assume the team will be worse by the end of the year.  Hopefully most of them get better.

[murraycraven]

They need to relearn how to play the game and that's going to get you beat occasionally.  

 

Come on man... these are professionals.  They KNOW how to play the game.   That is a ridiculous statement....

[King Knut]

There's a reason why we looked bad last night....for one, The Rags are one of the best teams in the league. Also, we are one of the worst.

 

Regardless of all of those points... are you people all high or something?  It's a damn preseason game that went to OT.  You're all acting like it was a 9-0 blowout and we just missed the playoffs because of it. 

 

Frankly I'm a little weirded out that the Rangers were as desperate to win as they seemed to be.  These games are about establishing your plans and essentially getting practice in on the clock.  Why any team would be so desperate to play so recklessly and dangerously to get a preseason OT win is beyond my capacity to understand. 

[murraycraven]

@ Brelic.... I thought this was an interesting blurb on BSH about Gudas and I agree:

 

 

• Radko Gudas has been a major disappointment so far. While his career stats paint a picture of a defenseman with offensive instincts, Gudas has looked horrific with the puck on his stick in preseason. Rumors have surfaced that Luke Schenn may be on the trading block, but if the plan is to replace Schenn with Gudas, the organization may want to hold off until Gudas shows signs of improvement. And that's not impossible - don't forget that Nick Schultz was painful to watch during last year's preseason, and he became a steady contributor in the regular season. But it would still be nice to see something from Gudas before the puck drops next Thursday.

[Phlyer1]

Greetings:

 

Granted, it was still preseason but we're close to the final roster.  Her is my take:

 

1)  Mason seems to thrive on seeing rubber.

 

2) Gudas looked like he is willing to hit folks.

 

3)  The offense looked challenged.

 

4)  The O and B looked like they were in loss avoidance mode rather than playing to win.

 

I am glad a good D is developing but we just don't look like a team with talented forwards.

 

Best,

 

Howie

Howie I can agree with everything you said. Looked like the same back pedaling team from last year most of the night.

[idahophilly]

It was the first game with anything close to a "normal" lineup and it still wasn't normal. No line up can be normal with McDonald out there anyway. They went up against the Rangers who WERE oddly motivated for their own reasons I'm sure.

 

I believe it means nothing and forecasts nothing.

 

The anchors are the anchors and will be until they are gone.

 

The only interesting question for me is: Hextall has said he won't play a rookie (ala Ghost) until that player can make the team a better team on a nightly basis. Is Ghost not better at this point than Schenn, Gudas or McDonald? We will see one of the kids sooner rather than later.

 

Now, lets just try and get through the next two pre-season games without anyone else getting hurt. Loosing a top line fowrard and 2nd line center in the pre-season is more concerning than a OT/Penalty Shot loss to last years President's Trophy winners who have a chip on their shoulder from not winning the cup last year.

[King Knut]

They KNOW how to play the game.

 

What team have you been watching the last two years?

 

NO.  THEY DON'T NOW HOW TO PLAY THE MODERN GAME IN THIS LEAGUE. 

 

Very clearly. 

 

Though I would love to have been watching the team you have been if you think they do know.  What on earth are you talking about? 

[King Knut]

it is hockey - not tennis... Good Teams play hard every single time the puck is dropped.

 

That is categorically not true and a ridiculous thing to expect of a team about to step into an 82 game season with hopefully 16-28 games more afterwards.

[murraycraven]

What team have you been watching the last two years?

NO. THEY DON'T NOW HOW TO PLAY THE MODERN GAME IN THIS LEAGUE.

Very clearly.

Though I would love to have been watching the team you have been if you think they do know. What on earth are you talking about?

but, but a new Coach will make EVERYONE better.... get a clue dude. You really believe you take any player off this Team and put them on a new Team they would not know how to play hockey. That is seriously a comment on TF84 would make.

Please....

[murraycraven]

That is categorically not true and a ridiculous thing to expect of a team about to step into an 82 game season with hopefully 16-28 games more afterwards.

So you rather them not go out and try to execute a system and win a game? Okay Gretzky. Thanks for playing...

You just had your captain say the system is nearly exact to what they were doing under Berubes yet they all don't know how to play hockey...

If G, Mason, Jake, Raff, etc don't know how to play hockey than WTF were they doing last year!

[radoran]

What the hell was with the Rangers and all the rough stuff? It's the damn preseason? I don't understand WTF their deal is.

 

You mean like Wayne Simmonds was talking about?

 

 

“We’ve been battling hard the last few days; we’ve been checking the crap out our own teammates, and I think it’s about time we played our opposition - where we can really throw out hits and start really battling 100 per cent,” right winger Wayne Simmonds said after the third day of camp Sunday.

 

 

They've been feeling their way through a new system for all of a week or so.

 

Which isn't at all what the captain says.

 

Ask team captain Claude Giroux about the difference and he shrugs.

“Not a lot,” Giroux said. “Pretty much the same system. Just a couple tweaks. Nothing major about it.

Neutral zone? A little tweak.”

[Mad Dog]

McDudd is absolutely, positively abysmal.  Just unwatchable.   Hexy needs to work his magic and find a way to get this stiff outta here ASAP.  They simply can't go into the season with him being penciled in as one of the 6 defensemen.

[King Knut]

 

You mean like Wayne Simmonds was talking about?

 

 

Which isn't at all what the captain says.

 

 

 

No.  I don't mean like what Simmer was saying there.  I mean slashing and blind trips and chippy crap that just seems to meant to get under your skin and injure (When will we see Rafl next I wonder?)

 

And I don't really expect Giroux to explain anything they're working on and if they're not working on anything, then yeah.  They're gonna look crappy again and shame on us for thinking Hextall has half a brain between his ears.

 

Why the hell bring in a new coach known for a responsible system oriented hockey, just to run "Berube Ball" again? 

 

So Maybe Giroux is full of it and maybe you're right and they're just going to play the same hockey on purpose.  Which do you want it to be?

[King Knut]

McDudd is absolutely, positively abysmal.  Just unwatchable.   Hexy needs to work his magic and find a way to get this stiff outta here ASAP.  They simply can't go into the season with him being penciled in as one of the 6 defensemen.

 

If this is truly the game they mean to play, Hextall should be fired immediately and replaced with a GM who has never worn Flyer Orange in his life. 

 

These players are capable of more.  If Hakstol's goin to run with the same lack of a system as last year then shame on him, shame on hexy and shame on all of us for thinking different was possible. 

 

A new system will take time to implement, but I can't really see the wisdom of not at least starting to try.  Maybe they're going to go in dribs and drabs and tiny tiny increments,  but I just don't see why.

[FD19372]

Greetings:

 

Granted, it was still preseason but we're close to the final roster.  Her is my take:

 

1)  Mason seems to thrive on seeing rubber.

 

2) Gudas looked like he is willing to hit folks.

 

3)  The offense looked challenged.

 

4)  The O and B looked like they were in loss avoidance mode rather than playing to win.

 

I am glad a good D is developing but we just don't look like a team with talented forwards.

 

Best,

 

Howie

You forgot one thing Howie, the O and B still suck at shootouts.

[radoran]

So Maybe Giroux is full of it and maybe you're right and they're just going to play the same hockey on purpose. Which do you want it to be?

 

It's not me "being right" it's what the captain said

 

Quite possible that he's full of it, but that sentiment (that it's pretty much the same system) has been echoed by other players and reporters.

 

If this is truly the game they mean to play, Hextall should be fired immediately and replaced with a GM who has never worn Flyer Orange in his life.

These players are capable of more.

 

Of all the players that "Hextall" brought it you can include: Schultz, del Zotto, Umburglar, Gagner, Medvedev, Bellemare, Gudas, White, Porter and Neuvirth.

 

Of that we can include del Zotto as a "top tier talent" with the jury out on Medvedev at the moment. This is still very much Holmgren's team.

 

I do believe that Hakstol is going to demand more accountability and that he's a better coach than Berube.

 

But if this team is going to go with the "no doubt™ we're a playoff team" mentality after one round in three years then they're in trouble.

 

They need to be pedal to the metal all game, every game.

[King Knut]

So you rather them not go out and try to execute a system and win a game? Okay Gretzky. Thanks for playing...

 

I'd rather them try to execute the system at this point and make that a priority OVER winning a meaningless preseason game.  In fact, I'd rather them focus on the system implementation over "winning" for the first third of the season to be honest. 

 

But if this is true:

You just had your captain say the system is nearly exact to what they were doing under Berubes yet they all don't know how to play hockey...

 

Then there is no hope and they're going to be just as bad if not worse than last year. Honestly.  I'm not just saying that.  If they're not going to change their game, then they're screwed.  But already I can tell you they are changing their game, it can be seen in the Defense already.  It's not second nature yet, but it's already begun.  I hope to hell Giroux is either wrong or just not chatting about it when it comes to the offense, because if they really aren't changing it, then they're screwed and so are we.  The neutral zone is clearly where they needed the tweaks, so that at least bodes well.  But still. 

 

If G, Mason, Jake, Raff, etc don't know how to play hockey than WTF were they doing last year!

 

I've been over this and over this and my fingers are getting tired.   I won't bother with Mason because he's a goalie but AT LEAST we can HOPE that he won't be forced into jeopardizing his career again by playing games when still recovering from an injury.

 

Jake and G were playing STUPID hockey last year.  The fact is that they're just damn good enough to get away with it.   Berube had them skating basically the full length of the ice several times every shift.  The defense couldn't control the puck in their own end, they couldn't outlet and the team had zero transition game.  Jake and G had to do it all themselves.  Back check, forecheck, dig it out of the corners, carry it out of the zone, create opportunities in the attack zone, find each other or someone to pass to (who usually wasn't that open)  and manufacture points like getting blood from a stone.  They went about scoring points the hardest way possible.    They were top ten scoring material, but Jake was +1 and G was -3 and they're both thought of as defensively responsible forwards.

 

They wasted effort and energy needlessly on every shift.  The goal for them doesn't need to be to score more (though they could both pot 30 goals and that shouldn't be too much to expect) the goal for them needs to be more efficient defensively and then more efficient at transitioning that defensive game into an offensive game.  This is different from "defense first"  I still don't know what that meant to Chief because the Defense looked more lost and confused and almost a non factor a lot of the time.

 

I said it elsewhere and I'll say it again.  pound for pound, skill for skill, I would take Jake and G over Kane and Toews any day of the week.   But if we're talking about playing hockey?  I want Kane and Toews because they have been coached a much smarter game and play an actual system that allows them to take far more advantage of their skills. 

 

The idea was that Hakstol was coming in to do something like what Cooper did in Tampa.  If he's not going to do anything like that, then I don't know why the hell we're even talking.  The team will be as bad or worse indefinitely until something gets done. 

 

I HAVE to believe that there's more intention going on than what Giroux said.  I HAVE to believe that it's going to take more time to instill and will develop over time.

 

So I ask again, which do you want to be true?  That Giroux is being completely honest and they're going to play the same system or that this team has a chance in hell of ever playing playoff hockey again?