Crouse and Bolland to Coyotes

[hf101]

The deal doesn't make a lot of sense for this years season, but it does taking into the context that Bolland's $5M+ contract was going to be a bigger issue next season when Ekblad contract begins.  This season Bolland probably could have been placed on the IR.

 

As for Arizona they will be paying very little of his cap hit as Bolland probably has played his last game.

 

[ezlot76]

15 hours ago, yave1964 said:

  I kind of get it.....

It has been established that you have to give something to get someone to take on an albatross contract. The Hawks were forced to give up Terrevainen to the Canes in order to dump Bickel. That set the standard.

  Bolland has been a slug with the Cats, and Crouse has been okay but not great in Junior, whispers have begun already that he was potentially a waste as a first round pick. At best he is a third liner with some scoring ability, that is about it, dumping Bolland, giving up Crouse and adding a conditional second and third is not the worst trade ever.

  From a "Yote stand point, they must see more out of Crouse than he has shown to date, I know they are always going to be playing around the cap floor and it is sad that the money involved is as important as the players.

 Talent wise, Crouse for a second and third is probably a wash, the 'Yotes are always at the bottom of the pile so the picks will be relatively high, and getting rid of Bolland is huge.

  I question the timing tho, Pirri signed with the Rags, Hudler is gone, dumping Bolland a week ago might have allowed the Cats to get one of them. While I am very high on this club, I worry about their depth including, especially their third line. Top nine forwards are:

 

Barkov, Trochek, Bjugstad, Hubderdeau, Jagr, Jokinen, Reilly Smith and ........

 

Well that is 7, I like Jarred McCann a lot and think he is a great fit with these guys. Number 9, well, I do not know, Marchessault maybe. Not much of a player.

 

  So dumping Bolland allows them to add at least another top nine forward as camp draws near. I have to think this deal will lead to another.

He was a top 9 for sure this yr though. We didnt need to dump any salary just to keep him. Im not that quick to give up on a 19yr old. His last season really was pretty good. Maybe not all that was expected but he's 19. I still believe he'll be at least a top 6 if not first liner. I get we have to do something to get rid of Bolland contract but that was to much. Plus we created the cap issue with crazy contracts in offseason. I have to say everything Rowe has done has been to undo the positives that Tallon did. Cant really stand behind anything hes done and say I like it.

[radoran]

3 hours ago, ezlot76 said:

He was a top 9 for sure this yr though. We didnt need to dump any salary just to keep him. Im not that quick to give up on a 19yr old. His last season really was pretty good. Maybe not all that was expected but he's 19. I still believe he'll be at least a top 6 if not first liner. I get we have to do something to get rid of Bolland contract but that was to much. Plus we created the cap issue with crazy contracts in offseason. I have to say everything Rowe has done has been to undo the positives that Tallon did. Cant really stand behind anything hes done and say I like it.

I'm not sure what else they could have done in the offseason. I get that you don't like Yandle - I'm not a huge fan, either. But I would think you wouldn't want them to give up or lose Ekblad, Barkov, Trochek, Bjugstad or Smith, right? Add Huberdeau and that's your "homegrown core" for the next five seasons (I get that Smith came from outside), plus Yandle and Demers in front of Luongo and Reimer - and Jokinen at least next season with Jagr until someone finds the picture of him aging in the attic.

 

I don't think any of the re-signings of your homegrown talent is out of line with "market value" these days.

 

Cap friendly has them with $18M in space NEXT season to re-up Huberdeau and maybe Jagr and needing a forward and a pair of D-men (Pysyk/Petrovic RFA).

 

Huberdeau probably takes Bolland's money (maybe a little less per year for a longer term?). Even if you bring back Jagr at $4M, $8M for depth D and bottom 6. I don't know enough about the Panthers' farm system to know if any of them are bubbling.

 

Don't bring back Jagr and you can compete for a $7-8M established player...

 

That's really not a bad place to be, especially for a team that won their division and made the playoffs for only the second time since the lockout.

 

And that's because they dealt Bolland.

 

Will it work? We'll see - and I can see where you as a fan might have doubts - but that's pretty much "how it's done" in the capped NHL these days and I'd have to say that the Panthers are at least in the conversation about "competing" - which they really haven't been for 20 years.

[ezlot76]

16 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'm not sure what else they could have done in the offseason. I get that you don't like Yandle - I'm not a huge fan, either. But I would think you wouldn't want them to give up or lose Ekblad, Barkov, Trochek, Bjugstad or Smith, right? Add Huberdeau and that's your "homegrown core" for the next five seasons (I get that Smith came from outside), plus Yandle and Demers in front of Luongo and Reimer - and Jokinen at least next season with Jagr until someone finds the picture of him aging in the attic.

 

I don't think any of the re-signings of your homegrown talent is out of line with "market value" these days.

 

Cap friendly has them with $18M in space NEXT season to re-up Huberdeau and maybe Jagr and needing a forward and a pair of D-men (Pysyk/Petrovic RFA).

 

Huberdeau probably takes Bolland's money (maybe a little less per year for a longer term?). Even if you bring back Jagr at $4M, $8M for depth D and bottom 6. I don't know enough about the Panthers' farm system to know if any of them are bubbling.

 

Don't bring back Jagr and you can compete for a $7-8M established player...

 

That's really not a bad place to be, especially for a team that won their division and made the playoffs for only the second time since the lockout.

 

And that's because they dealt Bolland.

 

Will it work? We'll see - and I can see where you as a fan might have doubts - but that's pretty much "how it's done" in the capped NHL these days and I'd have to say that the Panthers are at least in the conversation about "competing" - which they really haven't been for 20 years.

They could not have done anything. Literaly. Everything they did didnt help us. I actually dont hate Yandle, I hate the term of contract. and term only, im ok with giving 8mil per yr, but only for couple yrs.  We will be looking to make a deal similar to this or having to carry a dead weight contract to get rid of him when he starts slowing, which lets face it, is going to happen in next few seasons if you look at his age and all. But we dont trade Gudbranson sign a less expensive dman or better yet use one of the prospects coming up, and no money issue. trading Grimaldi to over pay for a rent a goalie was stupid as well, a kid in the organization could have done the job temporarily. Even Reimer,while I don't hate the player, wasnt necessary. We had Montoya wouldn't have cost us to much to keep him, and no problem with keeping him. anyways i will never agree with giving away top prospect just to dump salary. Now lets see if we even use the money.

[OccamsRazor]

On 8/25/2016 at 2:37 PM, radoran said:

 

Well, now, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!

 

 

 

Well i seen they are prepared to hang their banners on opening night versus the Flyers take a look.....

 

 

[radoran]

30 minutes ago, ezlot76 said:

They could not have done anything. Literaly. Everything they did didnt help us. I actually dont hate Yandle, I hate the term of contract. and term only, im ok with giving 8mil per yr, but only for couple yrs.  We will be looking to make a deal similar to this or having to carry a dead weight contract to get rid of him when he starts slowing, which lets face it, is going to happen in next few seasons if you look at his age and all. But we dont trade Gudbranson sign a less expensive dman or better yet use one of the prospects coming up, and no money issue. trading Grimaldi to over pay for a rent a goalie was stupid as well, a kid in the organization could have done the job temporarily. Even Reimer,while I don't hate the player, wasnt necessary. We had Montoya wouldn't have cost us to much to keep him, and no problem with keeping him. anyways i will never agree with giving away top prospect just to dump salary. Now lets see if we even use the money.

 

Barkov was a 20-year-old RFA. Trochek was a 22-year-old RFA. They had to do something.

 

Smith was going to be RFA after this season as was Ekblad. They were going to have to do something there.

 

So they locked up their young core and brought in Demers and Yandle. From where I sit, the D is better than what they had last year. If everyone stays healthy, there's no reason they shouldn't seriously compete for the playoffs and hopefully (for them) go deeper.

 

I don't think any of those deals - with the caveat about the length for Yandle - are "bad" for the Panthers. And that's honestly not a bad core to compete with for the next 3-5 years with five guys currently 25 or younger.

 

That said, I don't get the Reimer deal, either. Or Berra, for that matter. I'm thinking they don't have faith that Luongo can keep going 60+ games a season and don't like what they have on the farm. I like Montoya as a backup, too, but I honestly don't see either Gudbrandson or Grimaldi as big losses.

 

Again from where I sit, the Panthers are in a "win" mode - not necessarily "win now" but certainly they want to build on the success they had last season. That means a guy who "might" be a top six player in 3-4 years isn't as important to them. And, as I said, they now have the ability to go after a top tier free agent who already is a first line player.

 

If they do nothing with this opportunity and regress on the ice, then you have problems. But that's the risk for just about everybody in the game.

[radoran]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Well i seen they are prepared to hang their banners on opening night versus the Flyers take a look.....

 

 

 

Yeah, the Desert Doggies are paying around $12.5M (actual cost) for players to not play for them this season.

 

Has Pronger ever even set foot in Arizona after "joining the team"? I'm sure Datsyuk hasn't...

[AJgoal]

Just now, radoran said:

 

Yeah, the Desert Doggies are paying around $12.5M (actual cost) for players to not play for them this season.

 

 

Is that correct? Datsyuk retired, so is due no money, even though he counts on the cap. Bolland is 1.1 million (The rest is paid by insurance), Pronger is at most ~450k, but should also be paid most of that through insurance. They owe Ribiero and Vermette buyout money, buy that come out to less than $3 million.

[radoran]

Just now, AJgoal said:

 

Is that correct? Datsyuk retired, so is due no money, even though he counts on the cap. Bolland is 1.1 million (The rest is paid by insurance), Pronger is at most ~450k, but should also be paid most of that through insurance. They owe Ribiero and Vermette buyout money, buy that come out to less than $3 million.

 

I was going with the "actual salary" of Datsuyk and Pronger vs. their cap hits.

 

Didn't occur to me that they wouldn't pay Datsyuk - good point.

 

I was trying to find something on Bolland to confirm the $1.1M I've seen on teh Twitters so I wasn't including that

 

And insurance isn't free And premium increases are often forever

[ezlot76]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Barkov was a 20-year-old RFA. Trochek was a 22-year-old RFA. They had to do something.

 

Smith was going to be RFA after this season as was Ekblad. They were going to have to do something there.

 

So they locked up their young core and brought in Demers and Yandle. From where I sit, the D is better than what they had last year. If everyone stays healthy, there's no reason they shouldn't seriously compete for the playoffs and hopefully (for them) go deeper.

 

I don't think any of those deals - with the caveat about the length for Yandle - are "bad" for the Panthers. And that's honestly not a bad core to compete with for the next 3-5 years with five guys currently 25 or younger.

 

That said, I don't get the Reimer deal, either. Or Berra, for that matter. I'm thinking they don't have faith that Luongo can keep going 60+ games a season and don't like what they have on the farm. I like Montoya as a backup, too, but I honestly don't see either Gudbrandson or Grimaldi as big losses.

 

Again from where I sit, the Panthers are in a "win" mode - not necessarily "win now" but certainly they want to build on the success they had last season. That means a guy who "might" be a top six player in 3-4 years isn't as important to them. And, as I said, they now have the ability to go after a top tier free agent who already is a first line player.

 

If they do nothing with this opportunity and regress on the ice, then you have problems. But that's the risk for just about everybody in the game.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think losing Gudbranson was very big and he was part of young core. Grimaldi not nearly as much but to lose him for nothing makes no sense. We were moving in right direction. We don't sign couple crazy deals, add more moderate guys who were available And on better path than were on now. 

[yave1964]

25 minutes ago, ezlot76 said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think losing Gudbranson was very big and he was part of young core. Grimaldi not nearly as much but to lose him for nothing makes no sense. We were moving in right direction. We don't sign couple crazy deals, add more moderate guys who were available And on better path than were on now. 

The problem was, they are thin in top nine forwards and McCann can play, yes Gubranson will be missed but even with McCann they are a top nine forward short, maybe still short two. They added Demers and Yandle with a couple of kids chomping at the bit on defense. Crouse was okay last year but did not take a step up and could not be trusted with an NHL role on a competitive team. Moving Bolland came at a cost, But for getting rid of Bolland and adding a second and third, to me the cost was worth it.

[radoran]

An interesting take on the situation: http://thehockeywriters.com/lawson-crouse-trade-all-about-dollars-and-sense/

 

Next summer, that cap space will come in handy when contract extensions for Aaron Ekblad, Reilly Smith and Derek MacKenzie kick in and pending RFA Jonathan Huberdeau gets a raise. Panthers management likely had 2017 in mind when they dealt Bolland last week. Factoring in raises for the aforementioned players, Florida GM Tom Rowe and Co. must’ve realized that moving Bolland now could mean the difference between pursuing quality, veteran free agents and filling roster openings with raw prospects next year.

One more consideration was likely a key factor in making the trade now: Very few teams could swallow Bolland’s $5.5 million cap hit whole, and Florida wasn’t the only club looking to unload a bad contract (see Girardi, Dan or Lupul, Joffrey) or otherwise clear cap space. Such maneuvers are essentially a game of musical chairs, and the Panthers found their seat first. In doing so, the Cats all but eliminated the Coyotes as a trade partner for the Rangers, Maple Leafs or anyone else in a similar bind.

Next summer, that cap space will come in handy when contract extensions for Aaron Ekblad, Reilly Smith and Derek MacKenzie kick in and pending RFA Jonathan Huberdeau gets a raise. Panthers management likely had 2017 in mind when they dealt Bolland last week. Factoring in raises for the aforementioned players, Florida GM Tom Rowe and Co. must’ve realized that moving Bolland now could mean the difference between pursuing quality, veteran free agents and filling roster openings with raw prospects next year.

One more consideration was likely a key factor in making the trade now: Very few teams could swallow Bolland’s $5.5 million cap hit whole, and Florida wasn’t the only club looking to unload a bad contract (see Girardi, Dan or Lupul, Joffrey) or otherwise clear cap space. Such maneuvers are essentially a game of musical chairs, and the Panthers found their seat first. In doing so, the Cats all but eliminated the Coyotes as a trade partner for the Rangers, Maple Leafs or anyone else in a similar bind.

...

The trade of Bryan Bickell and Teuvo Teravainen to the Carolina Hurricanes back in June set the market price for moving unwanted contracts. Considering the difference between Bickell’s and Bolland’s contracts (one year at $4 million vs. three years at $5.5 million per), sending Crouse to the Coyotes was a bargain for the Panthers.

The deal could prove even sweeter, depending on Crouse’s development. Some concerns were voiced about Crouse’s production at the major junior level. The prospect didn’t do himself any favors at Florida’s development camp, either:

...

Crouse could turn out to be the next Rick Nash. Statistically speaking, however, he’s more likely to be the next Jimmy Hayes. If you were Tom Rowe and facing the potential choice of re-signing Huberdeau or keeping “the next Jimmy Hayes,” what would you do?

[jammer2]

On 8/25/2016 at 1:19 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Crouse also has an unmatched physical ability that neither Konecny or Leier can match. Crouse is a fine hockey player and he's going to perform well in Phoenix.  Still can't believe Crouse was given away for next to nothing. Tippett is going to love Crouse's game.

 

 Totally agree. When I heard about this deal, I didn't know for sure that Tallon was gone, but I just knew that he would not make a deal like this. At worst, Crouse becomes a physical beast that can score and chip in 30 pts from the 3rd line. At best, he can turn into a true power forward and be a 1st line winger....the only player for team Canada that will be back for his 3rd straight world jrs...and in the first few, he was asked to check and did a respectable job. You just don't give away a talent like this without knowing what you really have.Horrible trade.