Flyers vs Islanders. 2016-09-27

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

1 hour ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

 

I'm way overqualified to be President by the looks of our 2 current candidates.  

 

I don't know...I think you're right on par with them!  

[notfondajane]

On 9/28/2016 at 4:53 PM, pilldoc said:

 

Come to the Light side...the force is calling you!

Depends upon the sale of the Penguins! Should they leave Pittsburgh, I might consider this team!

[jammer2]

On 9/28/2016 at 8:44 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Man Hagg looks like he just doesn't give a f**k. I see no effort at all from him.

 

Very unimpressed by him tonight.

 

So it's easy to see where all the bad hype on him comes from. I guess i expect more hussle from him and I see none.

 

 That has been the rap on Hagg from the start. Not involved enough, it's one thing to have poise and be calm, quite another to be a passenger. He does have that kind of effortless stride to him, but if he wants to leap frog some of these quality Flyers blue liners, he better get a move on. I can see Friedman passing him on the depth chart, a guy like Wilcox also, Flyers will have enough puck movers, and pretty sure Myers has passed him already.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, jammer2 said:

 

 That has been the rap on Hagg from the start. Not involved enough, it's one thing to have poise and be calm, quite another to be a passenger. He does have that kind of effortless stride to him, but if he wants to leap frog some of these quality Flyers blue liners, he better get a move on. I can see Friedman passing him on the depth chart, a guy like Wilcox also, Flyers will have enough puck movers, and pretty sure Myers has passed him already.

 

I was really excited about Hagg initially.  Probably even more than Morin.   I've really soured on him.  He may be topping out at tweener.  I hope not.  I'd like to see the guy succeed.  But I agree with OR that there doesn't seem to be any energy or will from the guy.

[jammer2]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I was really excited about Hagg initially.  Probably even more than Morin.   I've really soured on him.  He may be topping out at tweener.  I hope not.  I'd like to see the guy succeed.  But I agree with OR that there doesn't seem to be any energy or will from the guy.

 

 That is just it, at this point of his young career, Hagg will have to impose his will on opponents, make something happen instead of being satisfied with having the play come to him. When you do the math, there will be 6 Flyer positions on defense, and it looks like Gudas is part of the long term plans, that leaves 5 spots....Provs, Sanheim, Myers, Morin.....that leaves one damn spot for Friedman, Wilcox, Hagg, Manning, Alt and a host of other quality prospects....Hagg should do the math the way I just did and respond accordingly.

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 That is just it, at this point of his young career, Hagg will have to impose his will on opponents, make something happen instead of being satisfied with having the play come to him. When you do the math, there will be 6 Flyer positions on defense, and it looks like Gudas is part of the long term plans, that leaves 5 spots....Provs, Sanheim, Myers, Morin.....that leaves one damn spot for Friedman, Wilcox, Hagg, Manning, Alt and a host of other quality prospects....Hagg should do the math the way I just did and respond accordingly.

 

And that's not even counting Ghost (in particular) and MDZ.    

 

Manning doesn't impress me, either.  But Manning at least seems capable of being below average at the NHL level.  Hagg, at this stage, doesn't really look like he belongs.  The two of them, in terms of outlook, seem on par. Both tweeners.

[jammer2]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

And that's not even counting Ghost (in particular) and MDZ.    

 

Manning doesn't impress me, either.  But Manning at least seems capable of being below average at the NHL level.  Hagg, at this stage, doesn't really look like he belongs.  The two of them, in terms of outlook, seem on par. Both tweeners.

Well, WTF...I knew I was leaving a few guys out, LMAO.....Ghost is for SURE in that top 5 I mentioned....MDZ could eventually be trade fodder depending on how the kids look. Manning might be safe as a 7th dman type of thing....cause the other guys are really not suited to a 7th spot, except maybe Wilcox, should he develop as planned.

[jammer2]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

And that's not even counting Ghost (in particular) and MDZ.    

 

Manning doesn't impress me, either.  But Manning at least seems capable of being below average at the NHL level.  Hagg, at this stage, doesn't really look like he belongs.  The two of them, in terms of outlook, seem on par. Both tweeners.

 

The problem with MDZ in particular, is he is on the last year of a 3.8 mill a year contract. He then egoes UFA...he vary well might price himself out of the org, cause he will demand more money of course, but do you really give MDZ 5 mill a year plus long term to boot, when you have a stud like Sanheim waiting in the wings on an entry level contract....take the MDZ money and invest in goal scoring depth. Either way, this is most likely MDZs last year as a Flyer...trade him for what you can get I say.

[jammer2]

 A horrible thing to say, but a long term injury to either Streit and or McDud would not make Hexy cry at this juncture. Streit is a injury waiting to happen IMHO. Only a matter of time.

[ruxpin]

9 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

The problem with MDZ in particular, is he is on the last year of a 3.8 mill a year contract. He then egoes UFA...he vary well might price himself out of the org, cause he will demand more money of course, but do you really give MDZ 5 mill a year plus long term to boot, when you have a stud like Sanheim waiting in the wings on an entry level contract....take the MDZ money and invest in goal scoring depth. Either way, this is most likely MDZs last year as a Flyer...trade him for what you can get I say.

 

No.  But if they do, it just doubles down on the idea that Hagg has a mountain to climb at this point.   Hagg might be better off individually if he's moved.  I'm not advocating that from a Flyers' perspective, necessarily, but from his.  On the other hand, even from his it won't matter unless he gets some kind of fire in his belly.   Just showing up works in AYSO, but it doesn't work in the NHL (unless your name's Nedved).

 

As for MDZ, I don't know if enough of the kids will be ready in time to make this a real risk either way.  Sanheim maybe.  But there's other defensemen I'd like to see go before MDZ.  The nice thing is Streit and Schultz are also up.  You have to figure that Streit and Schultz both ride off into the sunset.  And I do think that if MDZ continues to play at least as well as he has, he'll want more money.   If they could get him to a 2 year, $4.25- $4.5/year contract (he's at $4M now but his cap is still lower), I'd take a look.  But no more than 2 years and only if he continues to progress or at least doesn't backslide.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 A horrible thing to say, but a long term injury to either Streit and or McDud would not make Hexy cry at this juncture. Streit is a injury waiting to happen IMHO. Only a matter of time.

 

McDud is playing better than he did.  But I'd still send him to the A, just for a little cap help and to make room for Provorov.

[jammer2]

45 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

And I do think that if MDZ continues to play at least as well as he has, he'll want more money.   If they could get him to a 2 year, $4.25- $4.5/year contract (he's at $4M now but his cap is still lower), I'd take a look.  But no more than 2 years and only if he continues to progress or at least doesn't backslide.

 

 That works for the Flyers, but unless MDZ loves Philly or feels some kind of hometown discount is in order (who knows) as a payment for the Flyers being the only team willing to stick out their necks to resurrect his faltering career....I see him playing for a different team next season. He's a UFA, so he is going to want long term commitment for maximum bucks. This next contract should take him through his entire prime. MDZ has already done a prove it deal, and if he plays respectable hockey next year, he will parlay it into a 5-6 mill 4 or 5 year deal. I don't blame him for doing that, but I just don't see a 2 year deal in his future....and the Flyers can't commit past that.

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 That works for the Flyers, but unless MDZ loves Philly or feels some kind of hometown discount is in order (who knows) as a payment for the Flyers being the only team willing to stick out their necks to resurrect his faltering career....I see him playing for a different team next season. He's a UFA, so he is going to want long term commitment for maximum bucks. This next contract should take him through his entire prime. MDZ has already done a prove it deal, and if he plays respectable hockey next year, he will parlay it into a 5-6 mill 4 or 5 year deal. I don't blame him for doing that, but I just don't see a 2 year deal in his future....and the Flyers can't commit past that.

 

I completely agree.

 

So here's the $64,000 question:   Say the Flyers are a borderline playoff team at the deadline (anywhere from 6th to 10th seed in a closely-grouped field).   Given the crop of dmen in the system do you keep MDZ for a (arguably futile) playoff run or do you try to trade him so you get something.

 

Or do you do a "trade the rights" after the season to a team that maybe has a chance of signing him.  I like this, but you probably get less than at the deadline.

[jammer2]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I completely agree.

 

So here's the $64,000 question:   Say the Flyers are a borderline playoff team at the deadline (anywhere from 6th to 10th seed in a closely-grouped field).   Given the crop of dmen in the system do you keep MDZ for a (arguably futile) playoff run or do you try to trade him so you get something.

 

Or do you do a "trade the rights" after the season to a team that maybe has a chance of signing him.  I like this, but you probably get less than at the deadline.

 

 It depends on how our depth is looking at defense, and what a potential return would be for a MDZ at the deadline. Another factor, if a player comes back, they have to be good enough to protect at the expansion draft. Maybe picks would be the best return....

 

a good chance Alt gets snagged in the expansion draft if he has a good AHL season. This would be great for the Flyers since Alt will never make our team, and you can only lose one player.

[ruxpin]

Quote

 

a good chance Alt gets snagged in the expansion draft if he has a good AHL season. This would be great for the Flyers since Alt will never make our team, and you can only lose one player.

@jammer2

 

I'll pack for him.  I've no interest in him, anyway. 

[flyercanuck]

34 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I completely agree.

 

So here's the $64,000 question:   Say the Flyers are a borderline playoff team at the deadline (anywhere from 6th to 10th seed in a closely-grouped field).   Given the crop of dmen in the system do you keep MDZ for a (arguably futile) playoff run or do you try to trade him so you get something.

 

Or do you do a "trade the rights" after the season to a team that maybe has a chance of signing him.  I like this, but you probably get less than at the deadline.

 

The odds of getting a better defenceman than MDZ with a late 1st are slim. He's also pretty young. I have no problem keeping him around for a few years as long as he doesn't want a ton of money. We do need some vets to go with the kids. 

 

Of course if someone wants to blow us away with a great forward prospect I'm all ears.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The odds of getting a better defenceman than MDZ with a late 1st are slim. He's also pretty young. I have no problem keeping him around for a few years as long as he doesn't want a ton of money. We do need some vets to go with the kids. 

 

Of course if someone wants to blow us away with a great forward prospect I'm all ears.

Agree. Ideally, I'm not getting rid of him at all. 

 

But if they decide he wants more than they want to spend, I'm just wondering (hypothetically) when they move him or if they just let him walk.   

 

I do agree with jammer's thought that money/term might be difficult.   But yeah, we certainly will need some vets to go with the kids. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Both tweeners.

 

Both unimpressive. But i will say i can see Manning trying. And that is all i want sometimes at the end of the day after giving your all you just ain't good enough. And that is where Manning is. Hagg i'm sure has the skill he just doesn't possess the passion to WANT to display it all the time.

 

Someone can make you want it.

 

YOU have to want it.

 

And from watching it i just get the feeling he is happy and may just want to go back home for all i know.

 

When Lindblom was a Phantom he has his best production of his career last year towards the end.

 

Where is that fire? Why does it take a fellow countryman on your team before you display your skill??? Mental? I guess.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

The problem with MDZ in particular, is he is on the last year of a 3.8 mill a year contract. He then egoes UFA...he vary well might price himself out of the org, cause he will demand more money of course, but do you really give MDZ 5 mill a year plus long term to boot, when you have a stud like Sanheim waiting in the wings on an entry level contract....take the MDZ money and invest in goal scoring depth. Either way, this is most likely MDZs last year as a Flyer...trade him for what you can get I say.

 

 

Yes it is going to be a hard decision and the issue with wrist (he has stated he'll never have full range of motion again in it) combined with his price tag (and he can ONLY play the left side Provy and Travis can play either side) makes me roll the dice and move him and get what i can for him at the deadline.

 

Especially if someone like Sanheim is showing by then he could come up and contribute.

 

Take what you can for him and move on. But that is my 2 cents.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

McDud is playing better than he did.  But I'd still send him to the A, just for a little cap help and to make room for Provorov.

 

Yeah for his cap relief you can add Provorov to the lineup i do that all day!!!

[ruxpin]

@OccamsRazor

 

I completely agree with your post (regarding Haag).. I'm on my phone and am having trouble quoting it. 

 

Your last question about mental:   it's quite possible.   These are young kids on a different continent trying to make it on their own.  It's not vacation for them or a semester abroad.  Some have a harder time dealing with it.   I have no idea whether this is the case with Hagg.

[jammer2]

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I have no problem keeping him around for a few years as long as he doesn't want a ton of money. We do need some vets to go with the kids. 

r

 I totally agree, some vets are needed, you can't go to young to fast on the blueline. Problem is he is UFA, so the Flyers would be in a very weak negotiating position. He makes 3.8 a year right now....can't see asking for less than 5 mill a year 4-5 years....he will get that on the open market. That means one of our young studs are traded out before they get a chance to play because of the lack of spots available. Plus, a good chance there is not a ton of drop off from Sanheim to MDZ when you factor in 5 mill against 1 mill a year.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

r

 I totally agree, some vets are needed, you can't go to young to fast on the blueline. Problem is he is UFA, so the Flyers would be in a very weak negotiating position. He makes 3.8 a year right now....can't see asking for less than 5 mill a year 4-5 years....he will get that on the open market. That means one of our young studs are traded out before they get a chance to play because of the lack of spots available. Plus, a good chance there is not a ton of drop off from Sanheim to MDZ when you factor in 5 mill against 1 mill a year.

 

 

Exactly they need some Dmen on some cheap entry level deals so that and where they are in their development will be very influential in where they go with MDZ. I guess we'll see as the year goes on...

[jammer2]

15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Exactly they need some Dmen on some cheap entry level deals so that and where they are in their development will be very influential in where they go with MDZ. I guess we'll see as the year goes on...

 

Yep, it's one of those very fluid situations where a number of factors can influence what decisions are made. How are the kids playing, either in the AHL or NHL, what could you get in return, if you are in a playoff position or race, injuries would also be a big factor....and this year especially, who are you going to protect in a expansion draft .....that could play a huge role moving forward.

[LegionOfDoom]

If we also have high scoring defensemen that can very well alleviate scoring depth at the forward position, of course that's not ideal, but having that option helps alot to open some ice for our forwards to get tip-ins and grrreassy goals. We saw that with putting Ghost in the line up, imagine if more of his phantoms spook into our lineup.....bwwwaaa haaaa haaa haaa haaa.