"He's getting close to being an NHL player," Phantoms coach Scott Gordon says

[NRH]

http://www.mcall.com/sports/hockey/phantoms/mc-sam-morin-phantoms-zone-flyers-0111-20170111-story.html

[fanaticV3.0]

I want to be excited about this, but this sounds eerily like "best guy not in the league right now."

[peter puck]

45 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

I want to be excited about this, but this sounds eerily like "best guy not in the league right now."

 

Lets hope we don't get Dopita(ed) again.

[Adamflyers]

It is encouraging to hear that he is developing.  It seems like forever since he was drafted, but they admitted from the start that he was going to be a project.  Let's hope we see our patience pay off soon.

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, Adamflyers said:

It is encouraging to hear that he is developing.  It seems like forever since he was drafted, but they admitted from the start that he was going to be a project.  Let's hope we see our patience pay off soon.

 

Yes it seems like he is coming along nicely.

 

In fact i wouldn't be shocked to see him and Travis on the bottom pair next start of the season.

 

I can see this...

 

Ivan/Gudas

Ghost/Manning

Morin/Sanheim

[radoran]

43 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I can see this...

 

Ivan/Gudas

Ghost/Manning

Morin/Sanheim

 

That's an awful lot of youth on the blue line. Gudas and Manning are the elder statesmen at 26 each. Gudas will essentially be in his fourth season (237 total NHL games now). Manning in his third (116 total NHL games). The other four guys will have a grand total of three NHL seasons under their belts - total - and your bottom pairing has no NHL experience at all.

 

Not saying it's impossible, just not so sure it's advisable... You'd be counting on a lot of things to go right.

 

I like the kids and all, but that could be like throwing them to the wolves.

[OccamsRazor]

27 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

That's an awful lot of youth on the blue line. Gudas and Manning are the elder statesmen at 26 each. Gudas will essentially be in his fourth season (237 total NHL games now). Manning in his third (116 total NHL games). The other four guys will have a grand total of three NHL seasons under their belts - total - and your bottom pairing has no NHL experience at all.

 

Not saying it's impossible, just not so sure it's advisable... You'd be counting on a lot of things to go right.

 

I like the kids and all, but that could be like throwing them to the wolves.

 

 

Well that is just without knowing who the elderstatesman type Dman they would sign during the offseason. They always do and that guy could/would take Manning's spot on the 2nd pair with Ghost.

 

I didn't mention that part because i don't know who would be out there...and i don't want Streit to be that guy.

 

I want a guy who can teach these kids how to play defense an on ice coach if you will. They have Provy, Ghost and Sanheim to provide offense so the vet needs to be more in the stay at home type. 

[brelic]

22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Well that is just without knowing who the elderstatesman type Dman they would sign during the offseason. They always do and that guy could/would take Manning's spot on the 2nd pair with Ghost.

 

I didn't mention that part because i don't know who would be out there...and i don't want Streit to be that guy.

 

I want a guy who can teach these kids how to play defense an on ice coach if you will. They have Provy, Ghost and Sanheim to provide offense so the vet needs to be more in the stay at home type. 

 

I don't disagree with this premise, but tell me who from this list you would be willing to give a 7 year contract?

 

The cream of the crop probably won't make it to UFA... 

 

Burns (there's about 0% chance he reaches UFA, and about -50% he would sign with Philly... and he's already 32).

Shattenkirk (likely traded, so it will cost a truckload of assets plus a 7 year, $8-9M/year commitment).

 

The rest are... 

 

Streit

Markov

Wideman

Pronger (bahahaha!)

Kulikov

Stone

Del Zotto

Oduya

Smid

Scuderi

Franson

Daley

Ference

Michalek

Russell

Alzner

 

Those guys likely won't fetch 7 year contracts, but will probably want 5ish.

 

The full list is here http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/defenseman/

 

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I don't disagree with this premise, but tell me who from this list you would be willing to give a 7 year contract?

 

The cream of the crop probably won't make it to UFA... 

 

Burns (there's about 0% chance he reaches UFA, and about -50% he would sign with Philly... and he's already 32).

Shattenkirk (likely traded, so it will cost a truckload of assets plus a 7 year, $8-9M/year commitment).

 

The rest are... 

 

Streit

Markov

Wideman

Pronger (bahahaha!)

Kulikov

Stone

Del Zotto

Oduya

Smid

Scuderi

Franson

Daley

Ference

Michalek

Russell

Alzner

 

Those guys likely won't fetch 7 year contracts, but will probably want 5ish.

 

The full list is here http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/defenseman/

 

 

Of those i wouldn't mind Oduya or maybe even Russell.

 

But a guy not on that list i would kick the tires on is Fedor Tyutin. He only signed a one year deal with the Avs.

 

In fact i wouldn't mind flipping a UFA for a UFA even. Flip them MDZ for Fedor.

 

I've seen enough to know MDZ hasn't played well enough to fetch alot.

[radoran]

23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well that is just without knowing who the elderstatesman type Dman they would sign during the offseason. They always do and that guy could/would take Manning's spot on the 2nd pair with Ghost.

 

I didn't mention that part because i don't know who would be out there...and i don't want Streit to be that guy.

 

I want a guy who can teach these kids how to play defense an on ice coach if you will. They have Provy, Ghost and Sanheim to provide offense so the vet needs to be more in the stay at home type. 

 

The fly in the ointment - as always - is MacDonald. He's still under contract and will eat up $4-5M in cap space regardless. He's 30, so he's got "elder" down pat.

 

I just can't see them putting out a pair with zero NHL experience on it. Defensive mentor or no defensive mentor, that pair would likely get roasted which ain't a good thing for young players.

 

12 minutes ago, brelic said:

Burns (there's about 0% chance he reaches UFA, and about -50% he would sign with Philly... and he's already 32).

 

Burns signed an 8 year, $64M contract with San Jose.

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Of those i wouldn't mind Oduya or maybe even Russell.

 

But a guy not on that list i would kick the tires on is Fedor Tyutin. He only signed a one year deal with the Avs.

 

In fact i wouldn't mind flipping a UFA for a UFA even. Flip them MDZ for Fedor.

 

I've seen enough to know MDZ hasn't played well enough to fetch alot.

 

Well, we have the Ferrari-priced version of Russell in MacDud, and I'm not sure Russell brings anything better. Unless we can get rid of MacDud, I think that just adds redundancy.

 

Oduya is ok, but not a guy I would sign. He's not the leader / statesman you mention. He's a decent complementary player.

 

I don't know much about Tyutin.

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

 

Burns signed an 8 year, $64M contract with San Jose.

 

Well, that takes care of that then!

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The fly in the ointment - as always - is MacDonald. He's still under contract and will eat up $4-5M in cap space regardless. He's 30, so he's got "elder" down pat.

 

I just can't see them putting out a pair with zero NHL experience on it. Defensive mentor or no defensive mentor, that pair would likely get roasted which ain't a good thing for young players.

 

 

Burns signed an 8 year, $64M contract with San Jose.

 

Dude it can't get any worse. They have Streit and Mcdud and lead the NHL in goals against....so maybe just maybe they could improve.

 

I'd have to think Sanheim could help onto the puck more than what they have now. Besides Mcdud can be buried and it would be enough to cover Morin or Sanheim cap hit.

 

Go sign a vet on a 1 year deal. Hell no to a 7 year deal to any of those guys.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Well, we have the Ferrari-priced version of Russell in MacDud, and I'm not sure Russell brings anything better. Unless we can get rid of MacDud, I think that just adds redundancy.

 

Oduya is ok, but not a guy I would sign. He's not the leader / statesman you mention. He's a decent complementary player.

 

I don't know much about Tyutin.

 

Tyutin is the guy i like becuase he'd add some size and grit back there too.

 

And he skates well still. They need a mobile guy....not a stay at home like GrossmanN was.

 

Like i said Mcdud can be buried it has been done once before it can be done again.

 

You won't get all his money back on the cap but you can get 950K of it to use elsewhere.

 

Only reason he is being played now is to reach his 40 games so they can expose him just to met the percentage of their roster cap they must expose.

 

I forget the percentage it must be.

 

[King Knut]

On 1/16/2017 at 0:29 PM, radoran said:

 

That's an awful lot of youth on the blue line. Gudas and Manning are the elder statesmen at 26 each. Gudas will essentially be in his fourth season (237 total NHL games now). Manning in his third (116 total NHL games). The other four guys will have a grand total of three NHL seasons under their belts - total - and your bottom pairing has no NHL experience at all.

 

Not saying it's impossible, just not so sure it's advisable... You'd be counting on a lot of things to go right.

 

I like the kids and all, but that could be like throwing them to the wolves.

 

Yeah... imagine if you replaced Manning with Shattenkirk.  

Now things truly start to get interesting and these kids are truly playing with greatness. 

Right now, Ivan is playing great because he is.  He has NOTHING to guide him and no one to help him.

 

I'll be happy to not have to worry about Stret, MDZ, Schultz or their contracts, but They have to sign someone who's a leader and an example before next season.  And a pairing of two rookies is just bonkers IMHO.  Setting them up for failure won't help anything.  

 

 

[King Knut]

23 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Tyutin is the guy i like becuase he'd add some size and grit back there too.

 

And he skates well still. They need a mobile guy....not a stay at home like GrossmanN was.

 

Like i said Mcdud can be buried it has been done once before it can be done again.

 

You won't get all his money back on the cap but you can get 950K of it to use elsewhere.

 

Only reason he is being played now is to reach his 40 games so they can expose him just to met the percentage of their roster cap they must expose.

 

I forget the percentage it must be.

 

 

I don't know much about Tyutin either, but I tend to think that a stay at home guy is exactly what they need.   

Ghost needs to be able to be Ghost.  He can't abandon what makes him great 100% in the name of being responsible.

 

By stay at home, i don't mean slow, I just mean a responsible position playing hockey vet.  This, I hope is eventually Morin (who I hope can also make a good first pass once in a while).  But in the mean time there is way too much youth, inexperience and defensive liability in the projected lineup.  

 

MacDonald playing relating to the Vegas draft isn't about percentages.  The Flyers are required to expose at least one defenseman with 40 NHL games this season or 70 across the last two.  As of right now they have only three players under contract who meet this requirement:  Manning and Gudas and Ghost (who will be have to be protected even without a new contract in place).  

 

They can protect 3 D-men and while Manning isn't necessarily a guy you'd be desperate to protect, you'd certainly prefer to be able to have him on your team to MacDonald, so it makes more sense to get Mac to the requirement so he can be exposed. 

 

Vegas will never take him, but it'll at least prevent them from taking someone we'd rather keep.  

 

The further reason this becomes important is in trade scenarios.  

Say the Flyers are offered a good deal on a decent Forward that some other team can't protect, but doesn't want to lose for nothing in the draft and they want Manning as part of the deal.

 

If Ghost doesn't meet the requirement, suddenly you can't protect one of Gudas or Ghost.  That's not okay, so you have to pass up the deal.  

 

In two more games, Hextall will have a lot more wiggle room in how he handles his lineup heading into the Vegas draft and the off season.  

 

For the first time in a long time the Flyers are going to have both cap space and Roster Room.   They'll fill a few holes (a Vet D-Man and a Vet goalie), but Hextall is going to be in position to take advantage other teams desperate to get at least SOMETHING for some of their assets heading into the impending draft.  

 

This is further compounded when you realize that Vegas is required to take a player from every other team, which means they might end up with a lot more NHL players than they can ice.  While we assume they'll take some minor leaguers as well, they're certainly not going to be able to get many "prospects" and it's totally feasible Vegas could draft a guy and then trade him to us for a prospect or pick after the dust settles.  

 

 

 

[King Knut]

23 hours ago, radoran said:

 

The fly in the ointment - as always - is MacDonald. He's still under contract and will eat up $4-5M in cap space regardless. He's 30, so he's got "elder" down pat.

 

I just can't see them putting out a pair with zero NHL experience on it. Defensive mentor or no defensive mentor, that pair would likely get roasted which ain't a good thing for young players.

 

 

Burns signed an 8 year, $64M contract with San Jose.

 

I thought Wilson didn't give out contracts over 5 years in length?  

 

I'm really warming to this Shattenkirk idea.  if he wants 8 million for 8 years, that's right on the edge of acceptable to me.  I really wouldn't want to do it, but it's close enough that I'd have to think long and hard.

 

If he wants more money for notably fewer years I'd consider it.

 

  

[King Knut]

On 1/16/2017 at 1:22 PM, brelic said:

 

I don't disagree with this premise, but tell me who from this list you would be willing to give a 7 year contract?

 

Shattenkirk (likely traded, so it will cost a truckload of assets plus a 7 year, $8-9M/year commitment).

 

I'm almost all in on Shatty right now.  But I don't make the trade unless it helps the team somehow or gets him to sign for a better deal somehow.  There's no point to it and frankly, I think St. Louis's asking price is going to change by the deadline.  They're over a barrel.  They'll take what they can get.  A team like the Rangers might deal a few picks to make a run, but they won't be able to sign him long term in all likelihood.  Not unless they can somehow dish Henrik to protect Raanta.  

 

The Capitals are in a much better position next year to make a play for Shattenkirk.  They could attempt to include the likes of Oshie (send the poor SOB back to St. Louis) who is UFA himself.  But presumably, Oshie and WIlliams come off their books this summer, so they'll probably be in the hunt.  

 

On 1/16/2017 at 1:22 PM, brelic said:

The rest are... 

 

Streit

Markov

Wideman

Pronger (bahahaha!)

Kulikov

Stone

Del Zotto

Oduya

Smid

Scuderi

Franson

Daley

Ference

Michalek

Russell

Alzner

 

 

 

We'll need to sign one of them.  

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I thought Wilson didn't give out contracts over 5 years in length?  

 

I'm really warming to this Shattenkirk idea.  if he wants 8 million for 8 years, that's right on the edge of acceptable to me.  I really wouldn't want to do it, but it's close enough that I'd have to think long and hard.

 

If he wants more money for notably fewer years I'd consider it.

 

  

 

 

Funny i'm warming up to a Matt Duchene for Coots swap....i have to look at the pay scale though...

 

...two more years after this one at 6 mill per.............HHHhhhhhhhhhmmmm kind of expensive...

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Funny i'm warming up to a Matt Duchene for Coots swap....i have to look at the pay scale though...

 

...two more years after this one at 6 mill per.............HHHhhhhhhhhhmmmm kind of expensive...

 

I don't see him play enough, but on paper, I don't trade him for Coots.  His possession and entry numbers just aren't there.  I don't think it buys you anything.   Coots needs a winger who can take what he creates and turn it into something.

 

Replacing him with a center who scores, but gives up more opportunities than he creates isn't going to move the needle in the right direction.

 

I don't see Colorado that much though.  If Matty D is obviously and very clearly hurting due to the rest of his line and he's just a fantastic play maker with two god awful wingers, then I'd be willing to talk.  

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't see him play enough, but on paper, I don't trade him for Coots.  His possession and entry numbers just aren't there.  I don't think it buys you anything.   Coots needs a winger who can take what he creates and turn it into something.

 

Replacing him with a center who scores, but gives up more opportunities than he creates isn't going to move the needle in the right direction.

 

I don't see Colorado that much though.  If Matty D is obviously and very clearly hurting due to the rest of his line and he's just a fantastic play maker with two god awful wingers, then I'd be willing to talk.  

 

 

Well he could be your 2nd line center they are looking for....for now....

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Well he could be your 2nd line center they are looking for....for now....

 

Yeah, I just don't think based on what Hextall thinks is important, a center isn't what the 2nd line is looking for right now.  

 

Like I said, I don't know Duchene's play and numbers alone can lie in both directions, so I could be wrong about that.  But I don't think Hextall's likely to give up zone entry and puck carrying straight up for goals in his 2C.

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Yeah, I just don't think based on what Hextall thinks is important, a center isn't what the 2nd line is looking for right now.  

 

Like I said, I don't know Duchene's play and numbers alone can lie in both directions, so I could be wrong about that.  But I don't think Hextall's likely to give up zone entry and puck carrying straight up for goals in his 2C.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah but what good is zone entry when a Nick GrossmanN can catch you and take time space and the puck from you???

 

As has been said a quadrillion times Coots is as slow as a runny turd rolling up hill....(my apologies to all runny turds everywhere)...

 

...Hak system is predicated on speed and puck support cycle down to cover Dmen pinching supporting the forcheck...

 

...by the time Coots is IN the zone the puck is going the other way...

 

...my hangup is the money...

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah but what good is zone entry when a Nick GrossmanN can catch you and take time space and the puck from you???

 

As has been said a quadrillion times Coots is as slow as a runny turd rolling up hill....(my apologies to all runny turds everywhere)...

 

...Hak system is predicated on speed and puck support cycle down to cover Dmen pinching supporting the forcheck...

 

...by the time Coots is IN the zone the puck is going the other way...

 

...my hangup is the money...

 

The numbers literally defy this assertion.  

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

The numbers literally defy this assertion.  

 

F**k the numbers!

 

I go by what i see. I don't have to see numbers.

 

I'm sure you may find numbers that say Mcdud is useful...i don't care! I paid for this season on Gamecenter so i want to see competitive hockey. 

 

Coots has skills i'm not a hater i'm just calling him out for not giving effort!

 

So yeah i would entertain a trade for him.

 

And Giroux has disappeared since right aftee the streak ended it seems but he is it seems a golden boy....and well that is another conversation but i hold him accountable to.