Flyers Trade Deadline Thread

[brelic]

A few thoughts.

 

1. Call up Weal

 

I was listening to the broadcast while doing some chores last night, and noticed them talking about the hotshot AHLer the Blues called up... can't remember his name now. He was leading the AHL in points.

 

So, why not call up Weal? He's tearing it up, and the NHL club is having trouble scoring. Not only that, we do not have six legitimate top 6 players. There is Voracek, Giroux, Simmonds, and Schenn. The rest of the club is not top 6. Konecny might be in the future, and he's done well so far this year.

 

2. Send down Ghost

 

I would also send Ghost down for a while. He's just got too many holes in his game, and when he's not putting up points, he's a huge liability. He needs to round out his game and get his confidence back. And I don't buy the mental resiliency angle - if he can't handle it, he doesn't belong in the NHL. Period. A trip to Lehigh Valley should reignite the fire to get back to Philly.

 

3. Trade a goalie

 

Trade Neuvirth or Mason, and bring up Stolarz in the back up role. We won't keep both, so may as well get the young guy some more experience in the NHL. 

 

4. Trade deadweight / expiring contracts

 

Major or minor trade, doesn't really matter much. But it would be a good time to shed some of the deadweight / expiring contracts in return for assets and picks. I'm thinking Streit, Read, Weise, Del Zotto, etc. Not all, mind you, but it's worth exploring, and I'm sure Hextall has been doing that all year.

 

EDIT: Was in the Blues gameday thread, but decided to split it to a new thread on the deadline.

[murraycraven]

56 minutes ago, brelic said:

1. Call up Weal

 

I dont see this happening... the Phantoms have a very real chance at the Calder.

 

56 minutes ago, brelic said:

2. Send down Ghost

 

Doesn't Ghost have to go through waivers?  If so this is not even an option...

56 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

3. Trade a goalie

 

I think this is the only deal you are going to see from Hexy at the deadline.   Can't keep both and both are heading into FA

 

56 minutes ago, brelic said:

. Trade deadweight / expiring contracts

 

Well, yeah of course and I want to hit the lottery...   but you need to have a dancing partner.  Not sure Read and Weise are trade targets for other Teams.  Weise is terrible and on a long term deal so I highly doubt there is going to be any takers for his bloated contract.  Read has another year on his contract but he still can provide solid defensive play.   

 

Streit and MDZ should both be gone at the deadline...   they can be useful to a contending Team.  

 

As for making a big trade I dont think you will see it...   I am not sure G is going to get you all that much in terms of top end prospects and talent.  You will get something for him but not what he is truly worth - could be a Rick Nash/ Phil Kessel trade type return.  He is making an enormous paycheck and not producing.  On top of that he is nothing more than a PP specialist who seems to be declining.   Plus, he has a full NMC...

 

The only Player I think you could move and get a big return is Simmonds.  I would hate to see it happen b/c he is the only player worth watching not name Prov these days.  This Team would be even more lifeless without Simmonds...   If Hextall is planning on listening to offers they better get a huge haul.

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

I dont see this happening... the Phantoms have a very real chance at the Calder.

 

Good point - but is that a reason to not call up help at the NHL level when you need it?

 

4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

Doesn't Ghost have to go through waivers?  If so this is not even an option...

 

Hmm, I thought he was waiver exempt based on all the discussion threads lately... if he is, send him down. If not, then I agree it's not an option.

 

4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

I think this is the only deal you are going to see from Hexy at the deadline.   Can't keep both and both are heading into FA

 

Exactly. I think both goalies have diminished their values this year, unfortunately. We could get a 2nd for Mason or Neuvirth.

 

4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

Well, yeah of course and I want to hit the lottery...   but you need to have a dancing partner.  Not sure Read and Weise are trade targets for other Teams.  Weise is terrible and on a long term deal so I highly doubt there is going to be any takers for his bloated contract.  Read has another year on his contract but he still can provide solid defensive play.   

 

Streit and MDZ should both be gone at the deadline...   they can be useful to a contending Team.  

 

As for making a big trade I dont think you will see it...   I am not sure G is going to get you all that much in terms of top end prospects and talent.  You will get something for him but not what he is truly worth - could be a Rick Nash type return.  He is making an enormous paycheck and not producing.  On top of that he is nothing more than a PP specialist who seems to be declining.   Plus, he has a full NMC...

 

The only Player I think you could move and get a big return is Simmonds.  I would hate to see it happen b/c he is the only player worth watching not name Prov these days.  This Team would be even more lifeless without Simmonds...   If Hextall is planning on listening to offers they better get a huge haul.

 

I would look at moving the guys on D first and see what you can get. Possibly a 1st, but I doubt it. You'd be looking at a 2nd rounder, and maybe a mid-tier prospect in the case of MDZ.

 

 

 

[murraycraven]

Just now, brelic said:

Good point - but is that a reason to not call up help at the NHL level when you need it?

 

Frankly, I rather the young kids get some experience in the playoffs and compete for a championship.  Weal is not going to change the makeup of this Team so let him play and compete for the Calder.   That is the type of experience I would want our young guys to have - not playing on a terrible NHL team at the moment.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

A few thoughts.

 

1. Call up Weal

 

2. Send down Ghost

 

3. Trade a goalie

 

4. Trade deadweight / expiring contracts

 

 

Calling up Weal is probably not going to happen specifically because of the Vegas draft.  Vegas may draft him anyway, but because he's not on an entry level contract anymore he's fair game.  Do we really want to give them more reason to take a good long look at the kid?  The alt argument is that the Flyers really won't have a good idea whether to protect him or not unless they've seen him in the pros for a decent stretch.  With TK out, I think it does make a little bit of sense, but I expect Weise and Cousins to keep playing for the duration because Hexy is a cautious chap.

 

I know it's crazy because at this point he'll be a 25 year old rookie next season, but unless they're willing to expose bigger chips, I'm just not sure it's in their interest for the kid.

 

I just don't see sending down Ghost.  What's the point?  I'm all for him getting rest and lost of practice to work on his game in now so he's more prepped for the (hopefully) eventual trades of Streit and MDZ.    Also, they haven't scored in two games.  TWO GAMES without a goal.  Frankly, they friggin' need Ghost. 

 

I totally agree with trading the goalie.  In my head it's mason (if you can find a taker, it'll be hard because historically better goalies will be on the block from Pitt and Chicago)

 

I hope Streit and MDZ can be traded.  I wouldn't trade Read necessarily as he's still helping the team (if not on the score sheet) in a lot of ways.  Also, Read is a strong candidate to be drafted by Vegas.  I suppose you could trade him for picks, but then you limiting the pieces Vegas might want that you're willing to part with (Weal, Cousins, etc)

 

I expect the "protecteds" to be 

Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Coots, Raffl, Cousins/Weal (Whether it's Cousins or Weal remains to be seen).  

Gudas Ghost Manning

Stolarz

[King Knut]

37 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Good point - but is that a reason to not call up help at the NHL level when you need it?

 

 

Hmm, I thought he was waiver exempt based on all the discussion threads lately... if he is, send him down. If not, then I agree it's not an option.

 

 

Exactly. I think both goalies have diminished their values this year, unfortunately. We could get a 2nd for Mason or Neuvirth.

 

 

I would look at moving the guys on D first and see what you can get. Possibly a 1st, but I doubt it. You'd be looking at a 2nd rounder, and maybe a mid-tier prospect in the case of MDZ.

 

 

 

 

Ghost is still Entry Level (this year) so he should be waiver exempt.  

 

I'm just not sure I see the point of sending him down.  It'll boost his confidence?  It'll destroy his confidence?  It'll get him used to skating with smaller slower competition?  

 

I'm just not sure I get the logic.  Hopefully he'll be needed for the lineup regardless of how he's playing because MDZ and Streit have been traded.  

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Depth forwards usually get moved at the trade deadline, so I could see the Flyers being active there.

 

I'm also hopeful that Streit, Schultz and MDZ are moved. Might as well get something.

 

In the cases of Mason and Neuvirth, move them both and call up Stolarz and let him ride out the year. Get a backup like Carter Hutton or someone of that ilk.

 

As for moving a big name, can't see that happening until the off-season, once the salary cap has been set. I suspect that's when the Flyers will make their move, if they do.

[brelic]

54 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Ghost is still Entry Level (this year) so he should be waiver exempt.  

 

I'm just not sure I see the point of sending him down.  It'll boost his confidence?  It'll destroy his confidence?  It'll get him used to skating with smaller slower competition?  

 

I'm just not sure I get the logic.  Hopefully he'll be needed for the lineup regardless of how he's playing because MDZ and Streit have been traded.  

 

The point as I see it is to have him learn how to play defense in a league where he can focus on that and not get burned every time. 

 

He is probably at the bottom of our D pile in terms of defensive skills, and he's a waiver-exempt rookie. Cousins, Laughton, Weal, Leier, Alt - all guys who have been called up and sent back to work on their games. 

 

Why is Ghost different? He's 23 and has a lot of warts in his game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with sending him down to round out the season.

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

The point as I see it is to have him learn how to play defense in a league where he can focus on that and not get burned every time. 

 

He is probably at the bottom of our D pile in terms of defensive skills, and he's a waiver-exempt rookie. Cousins, Laughton, Weal, Leier, Alt - all guys who have been called up and sent back to work on their games. 

 

Why is Ghost different? 

 

Because that's not why we're upset with Ghost.  Plain and simple.  If it is, we're just stupid.  We're upset with Ghost because he's not scoring.  

 

Believe it or not, he was even worse defensively last year.  But we didn't care.  He was a Calder finalist.  If the expectation had been for him to play D like Provo does now, he never would have stayed in the lineup.  It was his offense.  he won games.  plain and simple.  He cost goals too, but we didn't care.  

 

He's actually far more responsible this year on D than he was his rookie campaign.  Which is probably a big part of why he's not scoring (that and the sophomore slump is a legit real thing).  

 

We're essentially saying, well shoot, if he ain't gonna score, we need him to play D well and if he ain't gonna do that, send him back to the minors to learn.

 

We're ignoring the fact that D wasn't what made him good.  It wasn't even in his tool bag as a pro.  

If Ghost were putting up 40 points, no one would care that his D is so weak.  And now is where I get all the responses that say "Is it too much to ask that  a D man play D?"  No, it's not.  but you didn't care last year and frankly it didn't matter.

 

Last year Ghost and his offense pretty much single handedly woke up the team and get them into playoffs.  It wasn't happening before him.  

 

This year Hak is so desperate to make him responsible both ways that he's taking away the part of Ghost's game that made him so damn good and effective for the team last year. 

 

This is the part where people say, "Hak doesn't make him miss the net."  to which I say, yeah... I think Hak doesn't make him miss the net, but he contributes to it a great deal.  I think the big mistake that's happening with Ghost is that in trying to make him into the player Hakstol wants, the team is taking the Ghost out of Ghost and it's just making him ineffective completely.

 

If he were to be sent to the Phantoms, I'd pray it would be to get his swagger back so he can get back to doing what he does well instead of getting frustrated with himself for not doing well the things he doesn't do well. 

 

He's a very unique player.  He's not Subban.  He's going to make for many dangerous situations.  But if unleashed appropriately, he'll generate even more for you.  If you can work with that, work with that and encourage that... but by killing that you're just taking away an asset, you're not strengthening anything.  

 

On the current path, in 3-5 years you'll have an extremely mediocre 29 year old D man with a fun name.  That's a STUPID waste of talent.  Trade him before doing that to him.  

 

 

[brelic]

28 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Because that's not why we're upset with Ghost.  Plain and simple.  If it is, we're just stupid.  We're upset with Ghost because he's not scoring.  

 

Believe it or not, he was even worse defensively last year.  But we didn't care.  He was a Calder finalist.  If the expectation had been for him to play D like Provo does now, he never would have stayed in the lineup.  It was his offense.  he won games.  plain and simple.  He cost goals too, but we didn't care.  

 

He's actually far more responsible this year on D than he was his rookie campaign.  Which is probably a big part of why he's not scoring (that and the sophomore slump is a legit real thing).  

 

We're essentially saying, well shoot, if he ain't gonna score, we need him to play D well and if he ain't gonna do that, send him back to the minors to learn.

 

We're ignoring the fact that D wasn't what made him good.  It wasn't even in his tool bag as a pro.  

If Ghost were putting up 40 points, no one would care that his D is so weak.  And now is where I get all the responses that say "Is it too much to ask that  a D man play D?"  No, it's not.  but you didn't care last year and frankly it didn't matter.

 

Last year Ghost and his offense pretty much single handedly woke up the team and get them into playoffs.  It wasn't happening before him.  

 

This year Hak is so desperate to make him responsible both ways that he's taking away the part of Ghost's game that made him so damn good and effective for the team last year. 

 

This is the part where people say, "Hak doesn't make him miss the net."  to which I say, yeah... I think Hak doesn't make him miss the net, but he contributes to it a great deal.  I think the big mistake that's happening with Ghost is that in trying to make him into the player Hakstol wants, the team is taking the Ghost out of Ghost and it's just making him ineffective completely.

 

If he were to be sent to the Phantoms, I'd pray it would be to get his swagger back so he can get back to doing what he does well instead of getting frustrated with himself for not doing well the things he doesn't do well. 

 

He's a very unique player.  He's not Subban.  He's going to make for many dangerous situations.  But if unleashed appropriately, he'll generate even more for you.  If you can work with that, work with that and encourage that... but by killing that you're just taking away an asset, you're not strengthening anything.  

 

On the current path, in 3-5 years you'll have an extremely mediocre 29 year old D man with a fun name.  That's a STUPID waste of talent.  Trade him before doing that to him.  

 

 

 

\I don't disagree with what you're saying at all... in fact I agree with most of it. 

 

What I still don't understand is why it's such a bad thing for Ghost to go back to Lehigh Valley. He's not helping the team very much, he's struggling right now, and he's a defensive mess. He can continue his development and regain his confidence. 

 

You'd think I was advocating taking him out to the woodshed lol!

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

\I don't disagree with what you're saying at all... in fact I agree with most of it. 

 

What I still don't understand is why it's such a bad thing for Ghost to go back to Lehigh Valley. He's not helping the team very much, he's struggling right now, and he's a defensive mess. He can continue his development and regain his confidence. 

 

You'd think I was advocating taking him out to the woodshed lol!

 

 

I'm fine with it, I'm just not sure I see it as terribly helpful to the problem at hand.  He's actually much less of a defensive mess than he was last year.  The difference is he's actually close enough to being in position for us to see it this year.  That's how bad he was defensively last year.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

He's a very unique player.  He's not Subban.  He's going to make for many dangerous situations.  But if unleashed appropriately, he'll generate even more for you.  If you can work with that, work with that and encourage that... but by killing that you're just taking away an asset, you're not strengthening anything.

 Yeah, he won't be Subban.  Subban is better on defense.

 

Maybe not to the level, but he could be more like Karlssson, who was not good in his own end and is still better on offense than defense.

 

I'll take Karlsson-lite from him.

[OccamsRazor]

Flyers Need to Be Sellers at Trade Deadline

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-need-to-be-sellers-at-trade-deadline/

[brelic]

50 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Flyers Need to Be Sellers at Trade Deadline

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-need-to-be-sellers-at-trade-deadline/

 

I'm not sure what the point of the article is because it is exactly what Hextall has said all along, and reiterated in the STH town hall meeting. 

 

What's misleading with these bloggers and writers is that they throw around definitive terms like "fan base" and how they are growing irritated, impatient, etc. Social media is one component, and even if there are a few, dozens, or hundreds of people chiming in on an issue, that is not the 'fan base.' It is a subset.

 

 

 

[radoran]

Looking at the waiver exemption, I think Ghost has blown past it - which makes Lehigh Valley not an option.

 

He signed his deal at 21 and has played more than 80 NHL games.

[King Knut]

25 minutes ago, radoran said:

Looking at the waiver exemption, I think Ghost has blown past it - which makes Lehigh Valley not an option.

 

He signed his deal at 21 and has played more than 80 NHL games.

 Insufficient information. Do the 80 games supercede the three years?  If so, then yeah, he's an NHLer or a waiver casualty. 

 

 

[King Knut]

42 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I'm not sure what the point of the article is because it is exactly what Hextall has said all along, and reiterated in the STH town hall meeting. 

 

What's misleading with these bloggers and writers is that they throw around definitive terms like "fan base" and how they are growing irritated, impatient, etc. Social media is one component, and even if there are a few, dozens, or hundreds of people chiming in on an issue, that is not the 'fan base.' It is a subset.

 

 

I think it's safe to say the fan base is getting impatient.  I have no problems with that.  It's Philly.  Whether they're on social media or not, the fan base is almost ALWAYS impatient.   Our natural state is impatient and frustrated.  Is it a day that ends in the letter "y"?  Well then we're impatient.  

 

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 Insufficient information. Do the 80 games supercede the three years?  If so, then yeah, he's an NHLer or a waiver casualty.

 

This is the important line:

 

Quote

The following table indicates when a player is no longer exempt from waivers. For example, a skater who signs their entry-level contract at 18 will become exempt after playing 160 NHL games, or after 5 seasons (whichever comes first). CBA Reference 13.4

 

So it's either 80 NHL games or three years, whichever comes first.

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

This is the important line:

 

 

So it's either 80 NHL games or three years, whichever comes first.

 

Then he's a Flyer for good!  Can we end the debate now and move on?

[brelic]

53 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I think it's safe to say the fan base is getting impatient.  I have no problems with that.  It's Philly.  Whether they're on social media or not, the fan base is almost ALWAYS impatient.   Our natural state is impatient and frustrated.  Is it a day that ends in the letter "y"?  Well then we're impatient.  

 

 

Yes I get what you're saying. But I'm not impatient. There are a lot of others on here who aren't impatient. And the fan base is millions of people who fall somewhere along the continuum.

 

I'm just saying that speaking in generalities like they speak for the entire fan base is misleading. I am a fan and I completely disagree with how they characterize things lol. They should say that they themselves are getting impatient and not speak for the millions of other fans.

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

11 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yes I get what you're saying. But I'm not impatient. There are a lot of others on here who aren't impatient. And the fan base is millions of people who fall somewhere along the continuum.

 

I'm just saying that speaking in generalities like they speak for the entire fan base is misleading. I am a fan and I completely disagree with how they characterize things lol. They should say that they themselves are getting impatient and not speak for the millions of other fans.

 

 

 

 

 

Did they say "All Fans" are getting impatient?

 

And seriously, how the hell are you not getting at least a little impatient.  Paxil?  Xanex?  Captain Morgan?  

I'm not saying I'm "let's win a cup!" impatient.  Bu let's just say I'm, "Holy crap we're so much better than the damn Devils and Hurricanes, how the hell are we getting blown out by crappy teams?!" impatient.  

[brelic]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

Did they say "All Fans" are getting impatient?

 

And seriously, how the hell are you not getting at least a little impatient.  Paxil?  Xanex?  Captain Morgan?  

I'm not saying I'm "let's win a cup!" impatient.  Bu let's just say I'm, "Holy crap we're so much better than the damn Devils and Hurricanes, how the hell are we getting blown out by crappy teams?!" impatient.  

 

Well, fan base. Whatever that means haha! 

 

I totally get it, I really do! I guess I've just accepted that it's a multi-year non-linear process. There will be a ton of ups (10 game winning streak) and downs (can't score, losing streak) over multiple years. 

 

But taking a macro view, I see that Hextall is setting up the team well to compete in the future with solid homegrown assets, the most important of which are a franchise defenseman that we are seeing develop before us, and hopefully a franchise goaltender. And they are drafting a ton of upper and second-tier complementary pieces like Sanheim, Morin, Lindblom, Rubtsov, Konecny. 

 

And the more of those you have and develop, the more you can trade some of them from a position of strength to address an organizational weakness. 

 

So, in a nutshell, I have absolutely no expectations That keeps me sane lol.

 

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Well, fan base. Whatever that means haha! 

 

I totally get it, I really do! I guess I've just accepted that it's a multi-year non-linear process. There will be a ton of ups (10 game winning streak) and downs (can't score, losing streak) over multiple years. 

 

But taking a macro view, I see that Hextall is setting up the team well to compete in the future with solid homegrown assets, the most important of which are a franchise defenseman that we are seeing develop before us, and hopefully a franchise goaltender. And they are drafting a ton of upper and second-tier complementary pieces like Sanheim, Morin, Lindblom, Rubtsov, Konecny. 

 

And the more of those you have and develop, the more you can trade some of them from a position of strength to address an organizational weakness. 

 

So, in a nutshell, I have absolutely no expectations That keeps me sane lol.

 

 

 

I left any expectations to remain sane behind me long ago.  Maybe in 1983.  No, '87.  Must have been '95 or maybe '97.  Definitely by 2000.  '04 for sure. '10 Absolutely...

 

I look at the big picture, I see a team that could compete next year with two additional pieces added and STILL have a bright future with that core defense... OR I see a team woefully out of sync with itself that will need to replaced aged and overpriced offensive talent by the time the defensive core you're talking about is mature and ready to be premiere.  

 

I think with two small adjustments the team is competitive next year (competitive, not contender) and then it just gets better from there for another 4 years, leaving them one and two years of an (at this point) aged and probably mostly ineffective and almost certainly unmovable Jake and G to burn off.  

 

 

[RJ8812]

Gostisbehere is not waiver exempt anymore, so he is not going to be demoted.

 

Our plan for the trade deadline is simple: move every asset that you can if they don't have a future with this team. Personally, I think they should be shopping VandeVelde, Bellemare, Streit, Del Zotto, Schultz, Read, Cousins, and one of the goalies. Get draft picks and prospects for them. Once those guys are moved, you bring up some players from the Phantoms so that they can show us what we are working with going into next season (Morin, Hagg, Laughton, Leier, Stolarz). Giving these guys a month up with the Flyers won't hurt the Phantoms playoff chances

[King Knut]

8 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Gostisbehere is not waiver exempt anymore, so he is not going to be demoted.

 

Our plan for the trade deadline is simple: move every asset that you can if they don't have a future with this team. Personally, I think they should be shopping VandeVelde, Bellemare, Streit, Del Zotto, Schultz, Read, Cousins, and one of the goalies. Get draft picks and prospects for them. Once those guys are moved, you bring up some players from the Phantoms so that they can show us what we are working with going into next season (Morin, Hagg, Laughton, Leier, Stolarz). Giving these guys a month up with the Flyers won't hurt the Phantoms playoff chances

 

I'd hang on to Read.  There needs to be someone viable and remotely attractive to Vegas.  In their current situation, if they sign a goalie, Read, Weise and one of either Cousins, Weal or Laughton will be the only exposable forwards.   

 

You could trade Read and increase the likelihood that Vegas takes Weise, but I think it's more likely they take Weal, Laughton or Cousins don't you?   Read's a safe bet for Vegas.  Solid team building acquisition.  The other kids, you really don't know what you're going to get.  If Vegas has filled out their reliable lineup by the time they get to Philly maybe they'll take a chance on one of the two younger guys that isn't protected.  But if they haven't, they're probably going to opt for Read.

I understand the instinct to dump Vandy and Belly, but I think it's less likely that you'll get a taker on them, but additionally, because of the scenario outlined above, the Flyers are almost definitely going to need at least one of these guys next year.

 

If Vegas takes Read, you'll have Laughton, Leier & Weal to bring up, but these are not really 4th line type guys.  

Maybe Weal plays on the 3rd replacing Read, leaving you Laughton and Leier to play with Lyuby on the on 4th. Aside from the "catchy names like "H.E. Triple Hockey Sticks Line" it feels a little sketchy for Hakstol who relies so heavily on these punks to have a 4th line with 2 guys he's refusing to play now and a second year guy.  Also, do we really see Leier and Laughton as 4th liners?  Maybe.  I guess they could be.  I don't know.  

 

Anyway, I keep Read to dangle as golden knight bait and I see if I can resign Belly on 7/1.  The rest can go.