Bring in the Youth!

[icehole]

I mentioned this a few month ago.  I want Hextall to have every youngster that's part of the big plan to make the team next year.  Now, I know there's cap complications, but if there's ANY way of making it happen, Hextall should do everything he can to make it happen.

 

I also mentioned that there were some young teams trending in a better direction than the flyers, and one of those teams is the leafs.  Some scoffed at the theory since the flyers had a better record, and they werent far removed from their 10 game win streak.  The leafs now have 85 points and are 3rd in their division.  Flyers have 76 points and are 6 points out of the playoffs.

 

I knew the leafs have some young players that are doing well this year, so I did a little research to support my argument.  On their roster, they have 4 rookies and 6 players with 1 year experience.  I thought they played more rookies than that, but that's the info from hockey-reference.com.  They have 6 players over 50 points.  Their leading scorers are Austin Matthews (60), mitch marner (57), and Nylander (56).  Their ages are 19, 19, and 20 respectfully. 

 

Do you think Lou was worried about having young kids play in the NHL?  He wanted a young team, and he was OK with putting them right in the NHL, playing for the team that is one of, if not the team with the most pressure to win in the NHL.  Meanwhile, the flyers are trotting this garbage out there every night because hexy doesn't want to rush anything.

 

That's why I don't care who is ready and who isn't.  The only way to find out is to give them the opportunity.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

17 minutes ago, icehole said:

I mentioned this a few month ago.  I want Hextall to have every youngster that's part of the big plan to make the team next year.  Now, I know there's cap complications, but if there's ANY way of making it happen, Hextall should do everything he can to make it happen.

 

I also mentioned that there were some young teams trending in a better direction than the flyers, and one of those teams is the leafs.  Some scoffed at the theory since the flyers had a better record, and they werent far removed from their 10 game win streak.  The leafs now have 85 points and are 3rd in their division.  Flyers have 76 points and are 6 points out of the playoffs.

 

I knew the leafs have some young players that are doing well this year, so I did a little research to support my argument.  On their roster, they have 4 rookies and 6 players with 1 year experience.  I thought they played more rookies than that, but that's the info from hockey-reference.com.  They have 6 players over 50 points.  Their leading scorers are Austin Matthews (60), mitch marner (57), and Nylander (56).  Their ages are 19, 19, and 20 respectfully. 

 

Do you think Lou was worried about having young kids play in the NHL?  He wanted a young team, and he was OK with putting them right in the NHL, playing for the team that is one of, if not the team with the most pressure to win in the NHL.  Meanwhile, the flyers are trotting this garbage out there every night because hexy doesn't want to rush anything.

 

That's why I don't care who is ready and who isn't.  The only way to find out is to give them the opportunity.

 

 

 

I think they should bring in their 2020 1st round pick...just to see if he'll be ready when they pick him.

[icehole]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

 

I think they should bring in their 2020 1st round pick...just to see if he'll be ready when they pick him.

Now you're using your noggin!  I expect nothing less from you.

[flyercanuck]

3 minutes ago, icehole said:

Now you're using your noggin!  I expect nothing less from you.

 

I do...

[brelic]

Ladies and gentlemen, Comcast is proud to introduce your 2017-2018 Philadelphia Flyers!

 

 

Sponsored by Pampers - Scaring the crap out of the opposition is our business. 

[Philly29]

56 minutes ago, icehole said:

That's why I don't care who is ready and who isn't.  The only way to find out is to give them the opportunity

Yeah because Dman and Goalie prospects if they are not NHL ready by age 20 they are busts....

 

So if they are not ready and you throw them in the deep end before they learn to swim and they drown I guarantee you would complain about how we have no more prospects in the cupboard.

[flyercanuck]

This kids going to be awesome...in 2039

 

 

[radoran]

8 of 15 Leaf forwards are 26 or older.

 

6 of 8 Leaf defensemen are 25 or older

 

Both Leaf goalies are 27 or older.

 

What "youth movement" are we talking about?

[icehole]

4 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

Yeah because Dman and Goalie prospects if they are not NHL ready by age 20 they are busts....

 

So if they are not ready and you throw them in the deep end before they learn to swim and they drown I guarantee you would complain about how we have no more prospects in the cupboard.

Stop being a Sally!

 

I'm assuming the leafs have some defense in their system.  Maybe they're being held back to develop.  It looks like they are fine with throwing the forwards into the mix though.  Are they drowning?  If they struggle a little, are they all used up and worthless after that?  I guess when a prospect struggles in his first year in the NHL he is forced to leave the cupboard?

 

If any of that is true, I don't want such frailty on this team, and I'd be glad to see them drown.  

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, icehole said:

Stop being a Sally!

 

I'm assuming the leafs have some defense in their system.  Maybe they're being held back to develop.  It looks like they are fine with throwing the forwards into the mix though.  Are they drowning?  If they struggle a little, are they all used up and worthless after that?  I guess when a prospect struggles in his first year in the NHL he is forced to leave the cupboard?

 

If any of that is true, I don't want such frailty on this team, and I'd be glad to see them drown.  

 

The Leafs have 4 rookies? One is a 1st overall pick...if we had one of those, he'd likely be on the team. One is a 23 year old rookie. You think players are busts if they haven't made it by then. They have 2 other rookies...so do the Flyers.

[icehole]

9 minutes ago, radoran said:

8 of 15 Leaf forwards are 26 or older.

 

6 of 8 Leaf defensemen are 25 or older

 

Both Leaf goalies are 27 or older.

 

What "youth movement" are we talking about?

So you gave me 14 players out of 23 that are younger than 26.  Or 14 out of 25 if you count the goalies.  Is that young or old in the NHL?

 

They're top 3 scorers average 19.33 years and 57.6 points.  Seems like they're doing ok.

[Claude Monet]

The Laffs have drafted # 1,4, & 8 the last 3 drafts.  All forwards which reach the NHL faster.

 

Flyers....22, 7 & 17.  Two of whom are Dmen....Provy being in the NHL.

 

As you are using the three recent first rounders of the Laffs from a points perspective, it is difficult to correlate against the Flyers....especially considering the position of the players in the draft AND where they play on the ice.

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

41 minutes ago, icehole said:

So you gave me 14 players out of 23 that are younger than 26.  Or 14 out of 25 if you count the goalies.  Is that young or old in the NHL?

 

They're top 3 scorers average 19.33 years and 57.6 points.  Seems like they're doing ok.

 

I'm not entirely on board with the VDV/PEB/Weise/Raffl/Reads of the roster. But they've brought up Laughton who didn't show it was essential to keep him up.

 

That said, Konecny is playing as a first year. Gotstobehere got his chance in Y2 and showed he had to stay. Provorov is playing in Y1 of eligibility. Nick Cousins has certainly gotten his share of playing time. Jordan Weal has finally gotten his "shot" (due to injury). And they did commit early to a certain top 10 draft pick named Sean Couturier...

 

So that's six (under 25) players on the Flyer roster. And I believe that Lindblom will get a good look next season and several of the young defencemen as well with Rubstov "in the system".

 

When you look at the Kings example you brought up "in another thread" - only Doughty (a top pick) played immediately for the Kings. Voynov, Martinez and Muzzin all played significant time in the AHL. As did Brayden McNabb (in the Sabres organization).

 

Who should the Flyers bring up?

Aube-Kubel has all of 17 points in the AHL. Leier hasn't played much of this season. Martel? Goulboune?

 

I don't see any of those guys being equivalent to Matthews or Nylander (who played parts of the past two seasons in the AHL) and when you add Martell, all four of them are Top 10 picks.

 

The Flyers made their "youth movement" change when they traded Richards and Crater and went with the core of Simmonds/Voracek/Schenn/Couturier to add to Giroux. Like it or not, that was the decision the franchise made.

 

"Why didn't they 'tank' and get a top pick?" you might/probably will ask. Well, you've also advocated that the team needs to be "entertaining" for fans such as yourself. How would you feel about one playoff round over eleven seasons to get where the Leafs are today?

 

As for this season, I get why the Flyers haven't gone with Stolarz/Morin/Haag/whoever in the past few weeks - they still believe they have a chance at the playoffs (and, mathematically, at least - they do). They could just tell the other players that they're packing it in and looking for the future, but they went in a different direction.

[icehole]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The Leafs have 4 rookies? One is a 1st overall pick...if we had one of those, he'd likely be on the team. One is a 23 year old rookie. You think players are busts if they haven't made it by then. They have 2 other rookies...so do the Flyers.

The Leafs have 4 rookies? One is a 1st overall pick...if we had one of those, he'd likely be on the team. One is a 23 year old rookie. You think players are busts if they haven't made it by then. They have 2 other rookies...so do the Flyers.

The flyers will never have the #1 pick because the GM doesn't understand that certain players just won't get them there.  Do you think the leafs get the #1 pick with Phil Kessel on the team?  Go back and look at their trades.  I see a lot of similar players on the flyers that the leafs shipped out.  I also see a lot of draft picks coming back.

 

I didnt say anything about busts (in this thread).  Are you referring to the 25 year old rookie that's a defenseman?  Let me see 5 19-23 year olds play.  I'll give them 3 or 4 years to see if they're busts.  How would I even know if they're busts if I've never seen them play???

 

Listen, we could put most of our beefs to rest if we would see these kids play.  You could say "see, Hexy knows how to draft" or I could say "way to go schmuck...you just wasted 8 years of my hockey life".

[radoran]

1 minute ago, icehole said:

The flyers will never have the #1 pick because the GM doesn't understand that certain players just won't get them there.  Do you think the leafs get the #1 pick with Phil Kessel on the team?

 

Well, they did get the #4 (Marner), #5 (Reilly) and #8 (Nylander) overall picks with Phil Kessel on the team...

[icehole]

48 minutes ago, Claude Monet said:

The Laffs have drafted # 1,4, & 8 the last 3 drafts.  All forwards which reach the NHL faster.

 

Flyers....22, 7 & 17.  Two of whom are Dmen....Provy being in the NHL.

 

As you are using the three recent first rounders of the Laffs from a points perspective, it is difficult to correlate against the Flyers....especially considering the position of the players in the draft AND where they play on the ice.

 

 

 

 

Why did the flyers draft so far back?  Is it because Hextall didn't have the foresight to make some moves to get up higher?  The leafs missed the playoffs for like 10 years straight until they stumbled in with guys JVR and Kessel.  They lost and knew they wouldn't get any further with Kessel, so they shipped he and his 8 years off to Pittsburgh.  The next year they had the #1 pick.  

 

Oh, and Pittsburgh won the cup with Kessel.  Two teams that know what they are doing.  Kessel wasn't going to win squat in Toronto so it wasn't a big deal to lose him.  Pittsburgh needed him to win the cup so they thought it was worth it to take on his contract.

[icehole]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Well, they did get the #4 (Marner), #5 (Reilly) and #8 (Nylander) overall picks with Phil Kessel on the team...

Those look like some good players.  Do you think they are doing what they are doing without matthews, or would they look like good players on a bad team?

 

And Kessel was the piece that probably got them the #1, but they made other moves to get those other high picks.  They didn't sign voracek, couturier, Schenn, MacDonald (I'm still using it), Bellemare, Neuvirth (has he played since they have him a raise?).  They got rid of players like that because they were headed in a different direction.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, icehole said:

That's why I don't care who is ready and who isn't.

 

 

And this statement alone proves you have no idea how to run a organization.

 

The kids need to be left alone doing what they are doing learning how to become pros. They are striving for it all in the AHL.

 

I as many here are ok with that. The Flyers are playing for nothing but a draft pick at this point.

 

Let the kids win and develop the skills they will need to chase Lord Stanley for the rest of their NHL careers how ever long that is.

 

I believe the Phantoms wining the Calder Cup the year Richie and Crater were together down there was pivotal in the learing to win in the NHL. Which they almost done i believe had they had a goalie in 2010.

 

Most of the youth the Flyers are counting to be a huge part of the core are on the Phantoms. Not all of them but a big chunk.

 

This will be a great learning experience for them. I believe they will be joined by Lindblom and Vorobyov before the playoffs start.

 

So no. Let the kids play a big role in the Calder Cup race. 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, icehole said:

Those look like some good players.  Do you think they are doing what they are doing without matthews, or would they look like good players on a bad team?

 

And Kessel was the piece that probably got them the #1, but they made other moves to get those other high picks.  They didn't sign voracek, couturier, Schenn, MacDonald (I'm still using it), Bellemare, Neuvirth (has he played since they have him a raise?).  They got rid of players like that because they were headed in a different direction.

 

Right, which has to do with where they are in "the process" - which is where the Flyers were when they had 94 points in 13-14 and 96 points last year.

 

They did sign Kadri (under contract for the next five years) and have one more year on the five year deal they gave Bozak and on the deal the Flyers gave JVR. Two more on the five year deal to Gardiner.  And they have their own deal for five more years to a defenseman who has scored more than 30 points once in his career...

 

They will soon be at the point where they have to make the decision on what to do with their "youth movement." I don't like the Voracek deal even a little bit. IMO the jury is out on Schenn and Couturier is - as I've demonstrated over and over and over - a solid value for his current production and likely a bargain by the end (whether you or I like it or not).

 

And for all that the Leafs are all of nine points ahead of the Flyers.

[icehole]

21 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

And this statement alone proves you have no idea how to run a organization.

 

The kids need to be left alone doing what they are doing learning how to become pros. They are striving for it all in the AHL.

 

I as many here are ok with that. The Flyers are playing for nothing but a draft pick at this point.

 

Let the kids win and develop the skills they will need to chase Lord Stanley for the rest of their NHL careers how ever long that is.

 

I believe the Phantoms wining the Calder Cup the year Richie and Crater were together down there was pivotal in the learing to win in the NHL. Which they almost done i believe had they had a goalie in 2010.

 

Most of the youth the Flyers are counting to be a huge part of the core are on the Phantoms. Not all of them but a big chunk.

 

This will be a great learning experience for them. I believe they will be joined by Lindblom and Vorobyov before the playoffs start.

 

So no. Let the kids play a big role in the Calder Cup race. 

Sorry.  I can't take pointers from someone that doesn't even watch the games most of the time.  I don't know how much you can evaluate from highlights and YouTube videos, but I actually have to watch these guys play night in and night out.  I want change.

 

I guess I should go down the street to the PPL center.  That's the team everyone is concerned about anyway.  I have access to a suite and everything.

[icehole]

17 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Right, which has to do with where they are in "the process" - which is where the Flyers were when they had 94 points in 13-14 and 96 points last year.

 

They did sign Kadri (under contract for the next five years) and have one more year on the five year deal they gave Bozak and on the deal the Flyers gave JVR. Two more on the five year deal to Gardiner.  And they have their own deal for five more years to a defenseman who has scored more than 30 points once in his career...

 

They will soon be at the point where they have to make the decision on what to do with their "youth movement." I don't like the Voracek deal even a little bit. IMO the jury is out on Schenn and Couturier is - as I've demonstrated over and over and over - a solid value for his current production and likely a bargain by the end (whether you or I like it or not).

 

And for all that the Leafs are all of nine points ahead of the Flyers.

Did the current leafs regime sign those players or did they inherit them?  Either way, Kadri and JVR outperform just about every flyer but make below $5m.  So it's not a huge deal to have them on the team playing with the young kids.  They are also 27, so they're not on the downside like giroux is.

 

And the leafs are in a playoff spot being led by two 19 year olds and a 20 year old.  They weren't expected to do much this year, and 9 points is a pretty big spread.

[pilldoc]

59 minutes ago, icehole said:

Kessel wasn't going to win squat in Toronto so it wasn't a big deal to lose him.  Pittsburgh needed him to win the cup so they thought it was worth it to take on his contract.

 

The Pens won despite Kessel.  Having an actual goalie not have a meltdown during the playoffs help.  MAF is notorious for having Playoff meltdowns.  Murray went 15-6 with a 0.923 SV% and an incredible 2.08 GAA

 

Yes Kessel led the team in scoring during the Playoffs last year, but when you have such stellar goaltending it makes it much easier.

 

Besides the Pens are in Win Now mode ...they could afford to take a risk on Kessel. 

 

49 minutes ago, icehole said:

Those look like some good players.  Do you think they are doing what they are doing without matthews, or would they look like good players on a bad team?

 

From Hockeys Future:

Marner is a dynamic, small forward who dominated at the major junior level during the London Knights' Memorial Cup run in 2015-16. An opportunistic scorer and excellent playmaker with the vision and stick and passing skills to create chances, he plays a high octane game.

 

Marner's offensive skill set and playmaking ability suggest he can be a consistent scorer and top line forward one day.
Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mitch-marner/#Y9Lo6UbviuPfmeaq.99

 

Nylander is a gifted forward. He is incredibly strong at pivoting with speed, both with and without the puck. He can turn on a dime, but tends to curl at full speed while making very fluid crossovers so as to generate speed through primarily the neutral zone. He is a strong puck handler who rarely loses the puck on his own accord and can dangle and deke out opponents with ease, using his body to protect the puck when opponents get physical.

 

Nylander's overall hockey sense is special and he has a feeling and understanding for the game that few players enjoy

His combination of skill and offensive instincts project that he can be a consistent scorer. His small stature is a concern but his productivity is not.
 

Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/william-nylander/#XqlJKde2Fye6cbY3.99

 

Oh and by the way ...

He was one of the top scorers for the AHL's Toronto Marlies as a 19-year-old as the club reached the Eastern Conference finals.
 

So yes....they can do this even without Matthews..... With Matthew, these 3 players will give the NHL headaches for years to come.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

40 minutes ago, icehole said:

Sorry.  I can't take pointers from someone that doesn't even watch the games most of the time.  I don't know how much you can evaluate from highlights and YouTube videos, but I actually have to watch these guys play night in and night out.  I want change.

 

I guess I should go down the street to the PPL center.  That's the team everyone is concerned about anyway.  I have access to a suite and eve

 

 

 

Fine by me.

 

And i can't follow a couch GM who doesn't even watch highlight videos only reacts to the box score or what the neighbor does.

 

43 minutes ago, icehole said:

I guess I should go down the street to the PPL center.  That's the team everyone is concerned about anyway.  I have access to a suite and everything.

 

Yes i recommend getting your head out the sand and look around.

 

 

[icehole]

22 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

The Pens won despite Kessel.  Having an actual goalie not have a meltdown during the playoffs help.  MAF is notorious for having Playoff meltdowns.  Murray went 15-6 with a 0.923 SV% and an incredible 2.08 GAA

 

Yes Kessel led the team in scoring during the Playoffs last year, but when you have such stellar goaltending it makes it much easier.

 

Besides the Pens are in Win Now mode ...they could afford to take a risk on Kessel. 

 

 

From Hockeys Future:

Marner is a dynamic, small forward who dominated at the major junior level during the London Knights' Memorial Cup run in 2015-16. An opportunistic scorer and excellent playmaker with the vision and stick and passing skills to create chances, he plays a high octane game.

 

Marner's offensive skill set and playmaking ability suggest he can be a consistent scorer and top line forward one day.
Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/mitch-marner/#Y9Lo6UbviuPfmeaq.99

 

Nylander is a gifted forward. He is incredibly strong at pivoting with speed, both with and without the puck. He can turn on a dime, but tends to curl at full speed while making very fluid crossovers so as to generate speed through primarily the neutral zone. He is a strong puck handler who rarely loses the puck on his own accord and can dangle and deke out opponents with ease, using his body to protect the puck when opponents get physical.

 

Nylander's overall hockey sense is special and he has a feeling and understanding for the game that few players enjoy

His combination of skill and offensive instincts project that he can be a consistent scorer. His small stature is a concern but his productivity is not.
 

Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/william-nylander/#XqlJKde2Fye6cbY3.99

 

Oh and by the way ...

He was one of the top scorers for the AHL's Toronto Marlies as a 19-year-old as the club reached the Eastern Conference finals.
 

So yes....they can do this even without Matthews..... With Matthew, these 3 players will give the NHL headaches for years to come.

 

 

Did you just say the pens won despite Kessel in one paragraph and then say he led the team in scoring in the next paragraph?  I don't think they win the cup without him.

 

I wouldnt take him on the flyers because it would be the same situation as what the leafs used to be, and his contract would just weigh the team down.

 

I think the leafs would still be making waves without Matthews, but I'm not sure they get into the playoffs yet.  A special player like that makes an entire team move sometimes.  I don't think the flyers will be able to compete with them even when they do have their complete team.

[Philly29]

Guys he is just a half educated troll. Just stop responding to him.