Flyers (now drafting #2 overall) and the 2017 NHL Draft (now with Poll)

[flyercanuck]

16 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I am by no means an expert on either guy, but from what very little I've seen, neither one seems to skate terribly well or is very quick on the ice.

 

Patrick has some size advantage, but is that an advantage in the NHL?  Especially today's NHL?  

He does seem to have a pretty accurate shot.  But to me he looks almost like a JVR type skill set.  Good shot, big, but not physical.  Not a particularly good or fast skater.  Is he good because he's good or because he's bigger than the other guys in juniors?  

 

Hischier seems like he plays something closer to the kind of game a prototypical "modern" forward.  But even so he doesn't seem like a particularly great skater either. 

 

I don't see NHL D men having trouble keeping up with or getting beat by them a whole lot at this point.  Both seem like projects.  

 

Again I've said I know little to nothing about either one and have only seen a little.  If I had to pick between them, I'd go with whoever is faster.   Hischier seems to have more maneuverability and play making potential.  Just my very ignorant take.

 

 

Neither player skates like McDavid. Then again, neither does ANYONE else in hockey.

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I doubt we could come up with 'tons' of top 2 picks that didn't amount to much. They are generally good to great. Not sure what 'game changer' means to you, but getting a #1 centre or LWer over a ? to me changes the game for the Flyers.

 

 

 The Flyers used to be a pretty good team, so they picked later in the 1st most of the time (or not at all). That'd be the biggest reason our best picks would be later. JVR came in a lame draft. Ricci came at a time when Europe wasn't scouted as well as now (or stars like Hischier didn't play CHL) Forsberg went 6th I believe...again because of poorer scouting. We also got Pitkanen 4th overall in another not-so-great draft (teams are more likely to trade a top pick in a lame draft)

 

 I'd have a hard time believing Vegas is going to get much worthy of the 2nd overall pick.

 

 

 

I have zero confidence that the #2 overall pick will yield a 1C or 1LW.  Could be, but by no means a given or even a likely possibility.

 

I will say that I think Homer screwed up trading away JVR and that JVR was very poorly handled.  He'll never have been a better pick than Shattenkirk or Turris, but you know... his development was handled poorly in my estimation.  It's 50/50 at best.  And granted.  50/50 is better than the chances at #13, I'm just saying I'm tempering my excitement.  We're not drafting McDavid or Matthews.  The press and the blogs and some folks here need to be prepared.  

 

Still, if we end up with a Seguin or a Landeskog, I will be very happy.  I'd even be happy if we ended up with a JVR and simply helped him develop properly.  The problem is that we could also end up with a Yakupov or a Taylor Hall.  Obviously both are NHL players, but are either what the Oilers thought they were getting?  I sure hope not. 

 

Let's definitely change our list of "meh" picks to top 5's and add Joni.  I still think Pitkanen could have had a much better career had he had a bit of training and development and not come up under a coach and a system that specifically downplayed his natural skill set.  But either way, it didn't pan out.  

 

I agree on Vegas, but I think it's absolutely possible that they could end up with a goalie and a D man we'd want, but there are teams that at this point will have to expose guys they'd probably not want to.  Chicago and Nik Hjamlarsson come to mind.  Maybe they lost him in the draft or maybe they decide to trade him rather than lose him outright.  Is he worth the #2 pick? No, but in a package with some other missing pieces?  I'm just saying it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.  

 

Mostly, I was trying to say that thinking about that kind of thing will keep us entertained while the Penguins and Caps keep playing hockey.  

 

But let's not stop there.  Let's get really creative.  Say The Islanders decide to go full rebuild and trade Tavares for the #2 overall rather than blowing a ton of money trying to sign him. Or what about all those fans here who were so desperate for Duchene and Landeskog....  Maybe Hextall swings a deal for the #2 overall that convinces someone to take MacDonald off our hands while bringing something good in return... see, this is fun.  

 

Back to reality though, I just want them to draft someone who can skate like a demon on ice.

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

37 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Hischier seems like he plays something closer to the kind of game a prototypical "modern" forward.  But even so he doesn't seem like a particularly great skater either. 

 

Not sure where you read that.  Everything I have read states he has above average skating skills.  See below:

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/nico-hischier-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

Strengths:

• Above-average skater
• Ability to switch gears, speed the play up or slow it down
• Excellent creativity and puck skills
• Offensive vision and awareness

In the offensive zone, Hischier shines brightly. His head is up as he carries the puck up ice with above-average speed. His passing skills are among the best of the draft class, and he has a sneaky, accurate shot that he is patient with allowing the play and the goalie to open up

 

https://futureconsiderations.ca/player/nico-hischier/

A smooth-skating, playmaking center…good skating agility and top speed, but is more quick than fast…is able to make quick turns and displays good lateral movement.......

 

not big or strong, but still shows willingness to take hits and battle for space…goes into board battles and uses his body to fight for pucks…excellent playmaking instincts, vision and passing skills…puts puck where his linemates can best utilize the chance…an incredible stickhandler who thrives in possession and can make defenders look foolish…competitive and driven…poise is a major standout attribute…dangerous when given time, especially on the power play as he takes full control of the play from the half wall with the puck, using his impressive agility, hands and vision to make plays…plays a responsible defensive game

 

From the hockey scouts themselves, they do not consider his skating skills as a detriment.

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

If I believe one thing about Hextall, it's that after 30 years of dealing with Flyers Fans, he could kinda give a crap what we think.  He's doing what's best for the team as far as his ability to ascertain and that's all he's worried about.

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless those fans will be the ones calling for his job too.

 

Just like they screamed for him to be yanked from the net.

 

I think he'll do his job on the due diligence side of it so it's moot right now.

[sekkes85]

For those who voted for "Trade pick to highest bidder", what are your thoughts on who we could get?

 

It might be foolish but I would be tempted to trade for a teams 1st next year that has potential to be a high pick (Vegas, Colorado, etc.) and maybe a 2nd this year + prospect (or another pick for Vegas).  This could backfire but how sweet would it be to have a top pick next year in a "stronger" draft?

[King Knut]

2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Not sure where you read that.  Everything I have read states he has above average skating skills.  See below:

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/nico-hischier-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

Strengths:

• Above-average skater
• Ability to switch gears, speed the play up or slow it down
• Excellent creativity and puck skills
• Offensive vision and awareness

In the offensive zone, Hischier shines brightly. His head is up as he carries the puck up ice with above-average speed. His passing skills are among the best of the draft class, and he has a sneaky, accurate shot that he is patient with allowing the play and the goalie to open up

 

https://futureconsiderations.ca/player/nico-hischier/

A smooth-skating, playmaking center…good skating agility and top speed, but is more quick than fast…is able to make quick turns and displays good lateral movement.......

 

not big or strong, but still shows willingness to take hits and battle for space…goes into board battles and uses his body to fight for pucks…excellent playmaking instincts, vision and passing skills…puts puck where his linemates can best utilize the chance…an incredible stickhandler who thrives in possession and can make defenders look foolish…competitive and driven…poise is a major standout attribute…dangerous when given time, especially on the power play as he takes full control of the play from the half wall with the puck, using his impressive agility, hands and vision to make plays…plays a responsible defensive game

 

From the hockey scouts themselves, they do not consider his skating skills as a detriment.

 

Literally just from looking at him in what game play I could find.  He looked like a better and faster skater than Patrick in what I could see from him, but not stunning.   

 

I could get a sense of his creativity and puck skills though.  So I'm glad scouts seemed to see that too and I wasn't imagining it.  

 

Long story short, from what little info I have to inform myself, if the Devils take Patrick and we're "stuck" with Hischier, I might even be tempted to think we got the better player.

 

[King Knut]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Regardless those fans will be the ones calling for his job too.

 

Just like they screamed for him to be yanked from the net.

 

I think he'll do his job on the due diligence side of it so it's moot right now.

 

I think Hextall's been doing his job better than anyone in that role has for a while now.

 

Homer's first 9 months notwithstanding, I think Hextall is making all the right moves with the exception of a contract or two that were bigger than they needed to be.  

 

My story might change if Neuvy is our 1G in October, but still, not enough to call for his job.  Anyone blaming their woes on Hextall (SO FAR) isn't paying attention to many details. 

 

 

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, sekkes85 said:

For those who voted for "Trade pick to highest bidder", what are your thoughts on who we could get?

 

It might be foolish but I would be tempted to trade for a teams 1st next year that has potential to be a high pick (Vegas, Colorado, etc.) and maybe a 2nd this year + prospect (or another pick for Vegas).  This could backfire but how sweet would it be to have a top pick next year in a "stronger" draft?

 

Is next year thought to have a better draft class?  

If so, I'd actually be very cool with this and I believe it will make a lot more sense.  Though picking who is going to be the worst team and then who is going to do well in the lottery (Joe Sakic must really hate us right now and I can't blame him because hell, we've been there).

 

But you could say, trade the #2 overall and Andrew MacDonald to Colorado for their first round picks the next two years.  

 

I know nothing about what's expected from next year's draft class though.

 

The other idea in my head (because I'm a broken record) would be for the likes of Tavares.  Granted, you have to deal with the same B.S. to resign him during the year, but the team would likely become an instant competitor and all four lines get better instantly.  Of course then you're unable to protect one more player (bye bye Raffl) and you have two 2C's and a Coots to play somehow, so there's that.... but you never know.  

 

This is just for fun.  They're drafting someone.  Probably Hischier.

 

If Jersey takes him though, I'm honestly not sure Patrick is lighting my world on fire.

 

 

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

19 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Long story short, from what little info I have to inform myself, if the Devils take Patrick and we're "stuck" with Hischier, I might even be tempted to think we got the better player.

 

Honestly, IMO, I don't think the Flyers can wrong here.  I trust Hexy in drafting and evaluating talent a lot more than Homer.  With that being said, I was initially in the Nolan Patrick camp.  However, after reading many posts on here with many different opinions AND reading and researching every shred of material I can lay my eyes on, I am slowly changing my mind towards Nico. 

 

Frankly the Flyers could use the traits of BOTH players.  Patrick seems to be your typical 1C who eventually could replace Giroux.  In Nico, the Flyers would have that "playmaker" they have been so desperately missing all these years.  It certainly is a hard choice.  From what I have read, both have a tremendous work ethic.

[flyercanuck]

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I have zero confidence that the #2 overall pick will yield a 1C or 1LW.  Could be, but by no means a given or even a likely possibility.

 

 No means a given....likely possibility? Absolutely.

 

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I will say that I think Homer screwed up trading away JVR and that JVR was very poorly handled.  He'll never have been a better pick than Shattenkirk or Turris, but you know... his development was handled poorly in my estimation.  It's 50/50 at best.  And granted.  50/50 is better than the chances at #13, I'm just saying I'm tempering my excitement.  We're not drafting McDavid or Matthews.  The press and the blogs and some folks here need to be prepared.  

 

 JVR may have been handled poorly...but I had no problem whatsoever trading him away. The return was what sucked. JVR doesn't have the heart to be the player he could be. He just doesn't care most of the time. Leaf fans will be the first second to tell you this.

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Still, if we end up with a Seguin or a Landeskog, I will be very happy.  I'd even be happy if we ended up with a JVR and simply helped him develop properly.  The problem is that we could also end up with a Yakupov or a Taylor Hall.  Obviously both are NHL players, but are either what the Oilers thought they were getting?  I sure hope not. 

 

 I'll take any of the above not named Yakupov. Hall may not be a superstar, but he'd be the best LW we have.

 

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Let's definitely change our list of "meh" picks to top 5's and add Joni.  I still think Pitkanen could have had a much better career had he had a bit of training and development and not come up under a coach and a system that specifically downplayed his natural skill set.  But either way, it didn't pan out.  

 

 Agreed. 

 

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I agree on Vegas, but I think it's absolutely possible that they could end up with a goalie and a D man we'd want, but there are teams that at this point will have to expose guys they'd probably not want to.  Chicago and Nik Hjamlarsson come to mind.  Maybe they lost him in the draft or maybe they decide to trade him rather than lose him outright.  Is he worth the #2 pick? No, but in a package with some other missing pieces?  I'm just saying it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.  

 

 I want quality, not quantity. We have quantity.

 

 

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Mostly, I was trying to say that thinking about that kind of thing will keep us entertained while the Penguins and Caps keep playing hockey.  

 

 Agreed. That's what we're doing.

 

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

But let's not stop there.  Let's get really creative.  Say The Islanders decide to go full rebuild and trade Tavares for the #2 overall rather than blowing a ton of money trying to sign him. Or what about all those fans here who were so desperate for Duchene and Landeskog....  Maybe Hextall swings a deal for the #2 overall that convinces someone to take MacDonald off our hands while bringing something good in return... see, this is fun.  

 

 Fun, sure. But I'm not dealing an 18 year old potential top line player for a 26 year old when our future at defence and goaltending are all closer to 18 than 26. It's already our dilemma with Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds.

 

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Back to reality though, I just want them to draft someone who can skate like a demon on ice.

 

 

 

 

I want a good player. Going in, I thought we were picking 13th. I'm pretty confident we're getting a better player than originally thought.

[pilldoc]

23 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Is next year thought to have a better draft class?

 

The jury is still out and WAY TOO early to tell.  Outside of the names of Andrei Svechnikov (RW) and Sweden's Rasmus Dahlin (D), right now it appears there will be no generational talent (McDavid / Matthews / Eichel) in the mix.

 

Some suggest that if Nico and Nolan were drafted next year, then they would be #3 and #4 behind the 2 names I listed above.

 

From what I have read, the draft includes some insane talent. Defenseman Rasmus Dahlin leads the pack, he is the best D prospect since Hedman at least. Then there is Andrei Svechnikov, who looks like a franchise winger in the making. Jared McIsaac looks like a future 1d. Joey Veleno also has been noted to have a very high upside.  (I know very little except for some readings here and there).  Some are claiming it has the potential to be a very deep draft for high end players.

 

Lastly I found this statement:

 

"2018 has a lot of guys that have possible Patrick level or slightly below him potential talent at forwards; Veleno, Whalstrom, Groulx, Wise, Svechnikov, Wernblom, Levin, Petterson, MacDonald, Khovanov, Jenkins and McLeod.
Then on defence you have guys like McIsaac, Dahlin, Smith, Merkley, Woo, Addison, Bokvist, Hughes and Alexeyev.

2018 might not have a McDavid level talent but it might be even deeper in terms of overall talent that 2015. Heck it might be one of the deepest drafts in the first round we've had since 2003. The fact that there are some really talented kids already playing really well in Junior leagues all over the world as well as the fact that no one can seem to agree on who the best is. We might even have one of the best 1st overall races we've ever had."

 

Hope this answers your question .....

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 No means a given....likely possibility? Absolutely.

 

 

I'm sticking with 50/50.  Maybe 60/40.

 

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 JVR may have been handled poorly...but I had no problem whatsoever trading him away. The return was what sucked. JVR doesn't have the heart to be the player he could be. He just doesn't care most of the time. Leaf fans will be the first second to tell you this.

 

In hindsight, and I wasn't paying close enough attention at the time, JVR just wasn't a great pick.  Seems like Homer was still barking up the Clarke tree.  I only question the trade because the team has been lacking a LW since.  As you say below Re: Hall, JVR might not care half the time, but he still puts up as many goals as Simmonds (and has with and without Matthews on the team) and the vast majority of them are even strength (what the Flyers are so lacking).  Again, he's produced consistently.  We complained about him not getting it and now he doesn't put in the effort, but he produces anyway.   I'm not saying I wouldn't have traded him for anything, but this team has had a huge hole at LW since before he was traded and trading him only made it bigger.  It was just never addressed and still hasn't.  You're right, the return was asinine.  But the long and short for me is that for Homer to have traded JVR the same off season as he lost Jagr to Free agency for nothing was just insanely stupid.  

 

He gets Erik Karlson or a first rounder, sure go for it.  But for Luke Schenn?  This is why I theorize that this off season is when Homer had a stroke or something.  

 

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 I'll take any of the above not named Yakupov. Hall may not be a superstar, but he'd be the best LW we have.

 

 

Agreed, but would you call Hall a win at #2 overall?

 

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 I want quality, not quantity. We have quantity.

 

Of course you always want quality... but you never know.  A guiding force with some experience on Defense for a few years could be incredibly invaluable to these kids.  OR maybe Hextall should just try to sign Oduya for a couple of years.

 

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Agreed. That's what we're doing.

 

More fun than watching the Penguins Captials highlights for me personally. 

 

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Fun, sure. But I'm not dealing an 18 year old potential top line player for a 26 year old when our future at defence and goaltending are all closer to 18 than 26. It's already our dilemma with Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds.

 

If I had any glimmer of belief that we could be getting a kid who could turn into a Tavares, I'd agree.  I just don't see it or read it from the scouting reports... yet.  Maybe someone disagrees with me.  I'm no expert.  I'm just not banking on hoping these kids are good.

 

I'm not saying it's what should be done... I'm just having fun.  

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I want a good player. Going in, I thought we were picking 13th. I'm pretty confident we're getting a better player than originally thought.

 

I would agree, but then I think about things like 

Legwand #2 over Gange in 1998

Horton #3 over Carter and Richards 2003

JVR #2 over Pacioretty, Voracek, Couture and McDonagh in 2007

 

It's a good shot, odds are a much better shot, but not a definite and we've been burned before.

 

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

2018 might not have a McDavid level talent but it might be even deeper in terms of overall talent that 2015. Heck it might be one of the deepest drafts in the first round we've had since 2003. The fact that there are some really talented kids already playing really well in Junior leagues all over the world as well as the fact that no one can seem to agree on who the best is. We might even have one of the best 1st overall races we've ever had."

 

Hope this answers your question .....

 

Thanks.  If it's "deeper" then maybe having a higher pick in it isn't as important as it would be in a shallower year.  

[elmatus]

49 minutes ago, King Knut said:

But you could say, trade the #2 overall and Andrew MacDonald to Colorado for their first round picks the next two years.  

 

I'd consider this.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Neither player skates like McDavid. Then again, neither does ANYONE else in hockey.

 

Clearly.  

 

It's just that if I'm choosing between three top prospects, I'm choosing the guy who skates the most like him.  

[AJgoal]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Agreed, but would you call Hall a win at #2 overall?

 

42, 53, 50, 80, 38 (in 53), 65, 53 points. .33 goals per game and .84 points per game over his career. Better than two thirds of his goals and three quarters of his assists at even strength. Yeah, that's pretty good production.

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

Clearly.  

 

It's just that if I'm choosing between three top prospects, I'm choosing the guy who skates the most like him.  

 

It's nigh impossible to compare via video, but this is a pretty good look at Hischier's straight line speed. For example (about 6:30 in), in game, Hischier is about a stride behind Dylan Larkin, blue line to blue line, when compared to Larkin's skills competition fastest skater run. From a speed perspective, that's pretty darned good.

 

 

Now there's more to skating than speed, but everything I've read is that Hischier is an above average to very good skater. I wouldn't worry about his skating. He does seem to be more likely than Patrick to end up as a winger, though. But he's still an excellent prospect.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm sticking with 50/50.  Maybe 60/40.

 

 Well, that's better than no means ...a likely possibility 

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

In hindsight, and I wasn't paying close enough attention at the time, JVR just wasn't a great pick.  Seems like Homer was still barking up the Clarke tree.  I only question the trade because the team has been lacking a LW since.  As you say below Re: Hall, JVR might not care half the time, but he still puts up as many goals as Simmonds (and has with and without Matthews on the team) and the vast majority of them are even strength (what the Flyers are so lacking).  Again, he's produced consistently.  We complained about him not getting it and now he doesn't put in the effort, but he produces anyway.   I'm not saying I wouldn't have traded him for anything, but this team has had a huge hole at LW since before he was traded and trading him only made it bigger.  It was just never addressed and still hasn't.  You're right, the return was asinine.  But the long and short for me is that for Homer to have traded JVR the same off season as he lost Jagr to Free agency for nothing was just insanely stupid.  

 

He gets Erik Karlson or a first rounder, sure go for it.  But for Luke Schenn?  This is why I theorize that this off season is when Homer had a stroke or something.  

 

 Agreed...other than don't compare JVR with Simmonds. I'd go to war with Simmonds. Somehow I picture JVR just not showing up. 

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

Agreed, but would you call Hall a win at #2 overall?

 

 Hall was 1st overall....  he's better than JVR. He's no superstar but he's a very good winger. I get that we're not going to get a generational player here, and I'm not saying we are. I'm saying Patrick OR Hischier is a heck of a lot better prospect than what we thought we were getting. 

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

Of course you always want quality... but you never know.  A guiding force with some experience on Defense for a few years could be incredibly invaluable to these kids.  OR maybe Hextall should just try to sign Oduya for a couple of years.

 

 Provorov can be the guiding force for the kids. He's a 34 year old grizzled vet in a 20 year olds body.

 

 How about we take our future #1 centre that we had zero clue how we were going to replace instead?

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

More fun than watching the Penguins Captials highlights for me personally. 

 

 Tis.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

If I had any glimmer of belief that we could be getting a kid who could turn into a Tavares, I'd agree.  I just don't see it or read it from the scouting reports... yet.  Maybe someone disagrees with me.  I'm no expert.  I'm just not banking on hoping these kids are good.

 

 I think the ceiling for Patrick is Tavares...if he stays healthy. He'll likely not quite reach that though. Hischier to me is more of a wild card. He could end up the better player. He could end up just being a good LWer. 

 

 Right now we're just bringing in our defensive prospects that we've been drafting for years. None of them are in their prime. Most of them aren't even NHL ready yet. Our goalies haven't even really played in the NHL period. So why trade your 2nd overall for a centre in his prime NOW and who'll also want to get paid in his next contract (think $9-10 mil) and who'll likely be going the Giroux route when all those other pieces (including the 2nd overall) should be starting to click?

 

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm not saying it's what should be done... I'm just having fun.  

 

I would agree, but then I think about things like 

Legwand #2 over Gange in 1998

Horton #3 over Carter and Richards 2003

JVR #2 over Pacioretty, Voracek, Couture and McDonagh in 2007

 

 Hindsight is 20/20. Those picks happen every draft, where someone taken in the 3rd, 4th, 5th ends up better than a top ten pick.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

It's a good shot, odds are a much better shot, but not a definite and we've been burned before.

 

 

 Look how many kicks at the can Edmonton had before they got McDavid. It didn't shy them away from taking them though. And it's finally paying off.

[King Knut]

 

42 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

42, 53, 50, 80, 38 (in 53), 65, 53 points. .33 goals per game and .84 points per game over his career. Better than two thirds of his goals and three quarters of his assists at even strength. Yeah, that's pretty good production.

 

Yeah.  Aside from the 80 point season it's a lot like like JVR production with slightly fewer goals and slightly more assists.  

 

42 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

It's nigh impossible to compare via video, but this is a pretty good look at Hischier's straight line speed. For example (about 6:30 in), in game, Hischier is about a stride behind Dylan Larkin, blue line to blue line, when compared to Larkin's skills competition fastest skater run. From a speed perspective, that's pretty darned good.

 

Cool video though that music almost made me jump out the window.  Not a fusion kind a guy.  But your point is taken.  Just don't post this on any forum that Shero can see.  I think at this point I want the Devils thinking Nolan is their guy.

 

I'm not sure I'm worried about him being a winger.  

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I'd consider this.

 

But you need Colorado to....and they wouldn't.

[Howie58]

I will keep fingers crossed that either of these dudes amounts to at least an upper-tier forward within 2-3 years.  But my mother always warned not count chickens before they're hatched.  Would we trade down to relieve ourselves of an ostrich contract (let's say relief from AMac), who knows?  My other concern here is another Center....OK, fine.  But don't we need some wings?  

 

We shall see.  I guess the absence of playoffs makes for "other" filling the airwaves or blogs.  If we take the Swiss dude, he could fill the "Streit Slot."  Maybe Hexy wants a designated neutral for negotiating with Putin....or easy access to a bank account left uncovered by the Patriot Act.  

 

 

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I will keep fingers crossed that either of these dudes amounts to at least an upper-tier forward within 2-3 years.  But my mother always warned not count chickens before they're hatched.  Would we trade down to relieve ourselves of an ostrich contract (let's say relief from AMac), who knows?  My other concern here is another Center....OK, fine.  But don't we need some wings?  

 

We shall see.  I guess the absence of playoffs makes for "other" filling the airwaves or blogs.  If we take the Swiss dude, he could fill the "Streit Slot."  Maybe Hexy wants a designated neutral for negotiating with Putin....or easy access to a bank account left uncovered by the Patriot Act.  

 

 

 

You trade a 3rd round pick....or a 3rd line player to get out of a contract. You don't trade down from 2nd overall.

 

The Flyers aren't in cap hell anymore. They aren't a contender yet. There's no hurry to get out of McDuds contract....especially at the expense of a high pick. After next season he might even be tradeable.

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 Agreed...other than don't compare JVR with Simmonds. I'd go to war with Simmonds. Somehow I picture JVR just not showing up. 

 

 

And I totally agree.  But for a guy who doesn't try to be scoring on par with a guy who busts his ass pretty much every shift...

 

I just get tired of people hating on JVR AND the fact that this team has no 1LW.  They had a scoring LW and traded him for a dude that was a mediocre D man at his best.  It was a stupid deal. And I suspect like the Richards and Carter deals was born out of Homer being immature and vindictive and not him trying to ice the best team possible.   

 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Hall was 1st overall....  he's better than JVR. He's no superstar but he's a very good winger. I get that we're not going to get a generational player here, and I'm not saying we are. I'm saying Patrick OR Hischier is a heck of a lot better prospect than what we thought we were getting. 

 

You're totally probably right about that.  

 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Provorov can be the guiding force for the kids. He's a 34 year old grizzled vet in a 20 year olds body.

 

 

Provorov is due for a Sophomore slump.  and yes. it's a real thing.  And as much as I love the kid, I'm tired of many of us pretending he's infallable.  He's not Lidstrom yet.  The kid screws up.  Not just a little. So does Burns, it's not a bad thing.   He's amazing but he's not superman.  We don't need a Hjalmarsson or an Oduya (especially not an Oduya), but the orange and black blue line is going to be very very green next year.  

 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 How about we take our future #1 centre that we had zero clue how we were going to replace instead?

 

 

That would be my preference too and what I expect, I'm just saying there are possibilities.  

 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 I think the ceiling for Patrick is Tavares...if he stays healthy. He'll likely not quite reach that though. Hischier to me is more of a wild card. He could end up the better player. He could end up just being a good LWer. 

 

Tavares had a bit more steam coming out of Juniors.  Might have just been hype at the time, but while he wasn't being heralded like a Kane or a Crosby, he was certainly the clear #1 that year and there were many high hopes for him.  

 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Right now we're just bringing in our defensive prospects that we've been drafting for years. None of them are in their prime. Most of them aren't even NHL ready yet. Our goalies haven't even really played in the NHL period. So why trade your 2nd overall for a centre in his prime NOW and who'll also want to get paid in his next contract (think $9-10 mil) and who'll likely be going the Giroux route when all those other pieces (including the 2nd overall) should be starting to click?

 

I'm not sure I know what the Giroux route is.  I personally don't think Giroux is declining the way most others do.  The years of his "decline" have been marked by the team's being mired in roster hell and them not being able to play any particular system.  His high mark was the year with Jagr.  The next season was an impressive captain like performance rebounding from an awful start and carrying his team to the playoffs.  But that year and everything since have been beholden to the fact that this team's roster was in terrible shape.  We joke about not being able to find a home for Schenn, and how great Simmonds is, and Voracek is overpaid, but scored 83 points or whatever, but for all of that, Giroux hasn't found a steady line mate on either side and that's because without shifting those guys around on lines 2-3, lines 2- are absolutely god awful.  Raffl is the closest he's gotten.  How are we expecting Giroux to be in anything but decline when he's been saddled with stone hands line mates and all three of them have to start each rush inside their own blue line? Let's resign Weal and give Lindblom a shot see what Giroux does with some speed and spark and some kind of a remotely capable Defense protecting his blue line so he doesn't have to skate 200ft 4 times every shift.  

 

Giroux may very well be "in decline" but I for one am not buying it until the team actually starts to play like a team again and he still sucks.  

 

What I will say that is if he resigns with the Islanders, because they don't seem to have much of a personnel plan at this point.

 

No matter what, you're not wrong.  Even if we get an eventual decent to good 2C out of this, it will have been worth it.  

 

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Look how many kicks at the can Edmonton had before they got McDavid. It didn't shy them away from taking them though. And it's finally paying off.

 

No one's shying away from taking th #2 overall pick.  People are just acting like this makes up for losing Kane or that we're going to get a Matthews or McDavid type guy.  

It's a bonus.  It's not a game changer.  That's all I'm saying.  That and positing pointlessly about possible trades Hextall could make because what the hell else am I going to do regarding hockey right now?

 

Though I admit, I'm totally behind Lavvy and these Preds (Subban notwithstanding).  I have no particular issues with Subban, I just don't have to like him.  

 

 

[King Knut]

25 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

But you need Colorado to....and they wouldn't.

 

They're planning on being this bad again next year?

 

Bird in the hand.

[King Knut]

25 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I will keep fingers crossed that either of these dudes amounts to at least an upper-tier forward within 2-3 years.  But my mother always warned not count chickens before they're hatched.  Would we trade down to relieve ourselves of an ostrich contract (let's say relief from AMac), who knows?  My other concern here is another Center....OK, fine.  But don't we need some wings?  

 

I really only suggested the AMac thing to get some guys here going because I know how much he (or rather his salary) bugs them.  There is no reason to trade him now.  His cap hit is just an annoyance to guys on this board.  It is not hindering them at all at this point.  There's no one they're not signing because they have AMac on the books.  The trade for Filppula demonstrates this.  There wasn't going to be a better option out there.

 

In a year they can buy him out and his cap hit will be nominal and that's only something to do if there's a UFA out there they'd really want (or some radical trade for one of the kids on the table).  

 

If he's not good enough they can bury him or carry him as the #7 or #8.  getting him off the books holds little advantage at this point.

 

 

[Howie58]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You trade a 3rd round pick....or a 3rd line player to get out of a contract. You don't trade down from 2nd overall.

 

The Flyers aren't in cap hell anymore. They aren't a contender yet. There's no hurry to get out of McDuds contract....especially at the expense of a high pick. After next season he might even be tradeable.

FC:

 

I wouldn't trade that far down...maybe our usual 10th to 13th....But if we got a recent high draft pick or high end prospect, I would consider.  If these guys aren't "generational," should we turn the radar off?