B. Schenn traded to Blues for J. Lehtera and a Conditional 1st in 2018

[jammer2]

 I tell ya what Flyer fans, a TON of talent available at the top of the 2nd round. If I'm the Flyers, I trade our 2nd rounder and 2 of our 3 3 rounders to draft either Ratcliffe or Alex Formenton, both of whom has HUGE upside. Both will be top 6 forwards in the NHL. 

[hf101]

2 minutes ago, vis said:

Honestly, some of my frustration would be blunted if the pick didn't seem off-board to me.  

 

I hear ya on the pick. But as someone else pointed out Frost just turned 18 a few weeks ago.   That right there would probably drop him to the 2nd round 

 

 

[RJ8812]

4 minutes ago, vis said:

I did?  Where was that?

"I'm officially done with Hextall"

 

Why? Because he actually has the balls to realise that this core isn't going to get it done and do a proper rebuild?

 

Schenn was not going to be part of the core when this team is ready to contend. Provorov, Nolan, Sanheim, etc..that is the core that will be leading us. Not Schenn. Not Simmonds. And probably not even Voracek or Giroux.

[mojo1917]

29 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Having Schenn in the top 6 plays into the other teams hands. He is not quick, does not produce 5 on 5 and lacks vision. He's not elite in any way. He gets pts because of the top pp. I wanted him moved, actually thought he was going to be traded? Why, cause we have seen the best B.Schenn that you will get

I agree here, I don't  think he thinks or skates as quickly as an NHL player needs to today.

Schenn does a lot of things decently but excels at nothing, his lines consistently get pinned in the d-zone and chase the play. I used to blame that on Simmonds but now that I've seen 17 on the PK I'm pretty sure that he's not the problem.  I don't think we will miss Schenn much more than PEB if I am being honest.  

[Philly29]

7 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Ratcliffe

This ^

[hf101]

 

[Philly29]

7 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

"I'm officially done with Hextall"

 

Why? Because he actually has the balls to realise that this core isn't going to get it done and do a proper rebuild?

 

Schenn was not going to be part of the core when this team is ready to contend. Provorov, Nolan, Sanheim, etc..that is the core that will be leading us. Not Schenn. Not Simmonds. And probably not even Voracek or Giroux.

Me thinks he took his ball and went home for the night.

[jammer2]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I agree here, I don't  think he thinks or skates as quickly as an NHL player needs to today.

Schenn does a lot of things decently but excels at nothing, his lines consistently get pinned in the d-zone and chase the play. I used to blame that on Simmonds but now that I've seen 17 on the PK I'm pretty sure that he's not the problem.  I don't think we will miss Schenn much more than PEB if I am being honest.  

 

 Along with the other stuff you mentioned, his compete level was not high. That is a guaranteed ticket out of town in Philly. Classic case of addition by subrtraction, because whoever takes his spot on the 1st or 2nd line will be faster and more tenacious. I really liked this move by Hexy....PLUS next year, we package both those picks together next year, we get to move WAY up and draft a true impact player, at least it gives us those kinda options, and options like that are nice to have in your back pocket. 

 

 Schenn was one of those kids who GREATLY profited for a fantastic World Jr's....never ever lived up to expectations. He should not have been top 10 much less 5th overall.

[Philly29]

Hey Jammer when it comes to Ratcliffe, could you compare him to Anthony Mantha from Detroit. Just a shot in the dark kinda question. I always liked Mantha, big 6'5" Left Wing scorer. Would love to see that in Ratcliffe if we drafted him or not either way.

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Along with the other stuff you mentioned, his compete level was not high. That is a guaranteed ticket out of town in Philly. Classic case of addition by subrtraction, because whoever takes his spot on the 1st or 2nd line will be faster and more tenacious. I really liked his move by Hexy....PLUS next year, we package both those picks together next year, we get to move WAY up and draft a true impact player, at least it gives us those kinda options, and options like that are nice to have in your back pocket. 

I think the picks Hextall got were great, but how are you and the others who like the trade thinking they're going to replace 25 goals? Who picks up the slack?

[RJ8812]

1 minute ago, Philly29 said:

Me thinks he took his ball and went home for the night.

Im all for people disagreeing with moves our GM makes, but he's acting like he just traded a franchise player for nothing.

 

Hextall just got 2 1st round picks for a 55pt PP specialist winger. For a rebuilding team, that's priceless. I don't dislike Schenn, but we just got great value for him.

[NoVaFlyerFan]

10 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

He's a playmaker who takes a lot of nights off, and if you think Schenn disappeared from the scoring sheet, this guy makes Schenn looks like Gretzky. They need more scoring on the team, not less. They also don't save really any cap room at all. I agree that getting the picks was a big plus, though.

 

For the sake of argument, let's agree to value the additional cap room and acquisition of Lehtera at zero.  Aren't we then effectively trading 20 pp goals a year for two late 1st round picks?  Why is that a bad deal?

[RJ8812]

Just now, FD19372 said:

I think the picks Hextall got were great, but how are you and the others who like the trade thinking they're going to replace 25 goals? Who picks up the slack?

Maybe not 25 goals, but the 2nd overall pick is pretty damn good...just saying 

[Philly29]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

to replace 25 goals? Who picks up the slack?

Konecny in his second year. Lindblom, a full year of Filppula, who knows maybe Giroux and Vorachek will wake the hell up also.

[FD19372]

Just now, NoVaFlyerFan said:

 

For the sake of argument, let's agree to value the additional cap room and acquisition of Lehtera at zero.  Aren't we then effectively trading 20 pp goals a year for two late 1st round picks?  Why is that a bad deal?

Maybe in the long term, it's a good deal, but until then, you've traded 25 goals away from a team that doesn't put the puck in the net much.

[Philly29]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Maybe in the long term, it's a good deal, but until then, you've traded 25 goals away from a team that doesn't put the puck in the net much.

Do not forget though yes the team had a bad year in putting the puck in the net but maybe that was because of Schenn and all the bouncing between the lines that he has done this year. Every line he is on dip in production, he does not make the players around him better. So addition by subtraction.

[RJ8812]

3 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

Konecny in his second year. Lindblom, a full year of Filppula, who knows maybe Giroux and Vorachek will wake the hell up also.

Nolan....

[jammer2]

 If you watch the video of Frost, the first thing that comes to mind is how very fast the puck comes off his stick. Nice slapper, nice wrister and just finds way to get it done down low. His linemate Sensysen (a Boston first rounder) was a perfect fit on Frost's line....the Bruins got a star there. Frost has NHL hands and an NHL work ethic. 

[RJ8812]

3 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Maybe in the long term, it's a good deal, but until then, you've traded 25 goals away from a team that doesn't put the puck in the net much.

Good. Get a high draft pick in a good 2018 draft class

[Philly29]

3 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 If you watch the video of Frost, the first thing that comes to mind is how very fast the puck comes off his stick. Nice slapper, nice wrister and just finds way to get it done down low. His linemate Sensysen (a Boston first rounder) was a perfect fit on Frost's line....the Bruins got a star there. Frost has NHL hands and an NHL work ethic. 

Could you compare Ratcliffe to Anthony Mantha from Detroit?

[mojo1917]

3 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I think the picks Hextall got were great, but how are you and the others who like the trade thinking they're going to replace 25 goals? Who picks up the slack?

how about Lindblom, and Filppula for a whole year ?

I don't think Schenn is going to become the guy that leaves town and finds his game.  We saw it, it is okay.  We don't need "okay" in our top 6.

I think Hextall didn't think he was coming to Philly when Ron traded Schenn out of LA, I think he was fixing a reach there and then, "well ****, here that *****' guy is again"...

[jammer2]

7 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

Hey Jammer when it comes to Ratcliffe, could you compare him to Anthony Mantha from Detroit. Just a shot in the dark kinda question. I always liked Mantha, big 6'5" Left Wing scorer. Would love to see that in Ratcliffe if we drafted him or not either way.

 

 I think Mantha is more polished and more dynamic than Ratcliffe, but Rats is 6'5 and still growing. He is gonna make a VERY nice power forward for somebody, and even at his huge size, his skating is solid....his skating gets even a tad better, some GM's will be PISSED at themsleves for passing him up. This kid can only get better when he gets used to his size, he grew 3 inches last year. 

[hf101]

@vis

 

How can you not like this kid?

 

 

[Philly29]

4 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I think Mantha is more polished and more dynamic than Ratcliffe, but Rats is 6'5 and still growing. He is gonna make a VERY nice power forward for somebody, and even at his huge size, his skating is solid....his skating gets even a tad better, some GM's will be PISSED at themsleves for passing him up. This kid can only get better when he gets used to his size, he grew 3 inches last year. 

I want him, Flyers make it happen.

 

Also thank you for the info on the comparison, it was a shot in the dark kinda question.

[vis]

Just now, NoVaFlyerFan said:

If the blues get a top 10 pick then we do NOT get a pick in 2018.

Think I mis-worded it.

 

The pick is top 10 protected in 2018.  If the Blues end up with a top 10 pick in 2018, they can elect to push the pick to a non-protected 2019 pick and would also have to give the Flyers a third rounder. 

 

The Flyers have to bank on STL having bad seasons next year and the following for the pick to be top 10 at any point.  I don't think that's going to be the case.  Frankly, I think it's highly unlikely that STL ends up with a top 10 pick next season.  So, this is likely to be a moot point.  But in the off-chance STL does end up with a top 10 pick, the Flyers wouldn't get the benefit of that in what is expected to be a good draft year.  Rather, STL would likely defer the pick to 2019 (I don't know if 2019 is supposed to be a good year; if it is, maybe that changes things somewhat).  As mentioned, I think it would be unlikely that STL would have another bad season, meaning that the Flyers would likely end up with a later round pick.  So, in the two most likely scenarios, the Flyers are likely to end up with a later round pick.

 

Clear as mud?