flyer4ever Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I am disappointed that the Flyers won't be releasing Nolan Patrick to play in the world junior tournament. I think it would be good for his development. In MHO, Hextall is putting corporate ahead of future. Putting a player like Patrick in a position to be a dominant player is good for his confidence and puts him in a position to succeed, neither of which he will get under Haxtol. Attempting to limp into the playoffs and get buried in the first round for the sake of two home gates is counter productive to the goal of winning a cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I'm with you...I think he needs to have his confidence stroked a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Agreed. At the very least, Hakstol could shuffle the lines and flank him with Voracek or Filppula to get him going a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Should have sent him back before he played his 10th game. That would of helped get his confidence back. Too late now. His 6 points -4 in 20 games have been pivotal in his maturity!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Should have sent him back before he played his 10th game. That would of helped get his confidence back. Too late now. His 6 points -4 in 20 games have been pivotal in his maturity!!!!!! along with being benched in the 3rd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, flyer4ever said: I am disappointed that the Flyers won't be releasing Nolan Patrick to play in the world junior tournament. I think it would be good for his development. In MHO, Hextall is putting corporate ahead of future. Putting a player like Patrick in a position to be a dominant player is good for his confidence and puts him in a position to succeed, neither of which he will get under Haxtol. Attempting to limp into the playoffs and get buried in the first round for the sake of two home gates is counter productive to the goal of winning a cup. Yeah except Myers got injured there last year and I think that might have more to do with this than anything. Personally I'd send him just because I would LOVE to see three weeks of Vecchione. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 20 minutes ago, murraycraven said: along with being benched in the 3rd.... 23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Should have sent him back before he played his 10th game. That would of helped get his confidence back. Too late now. His 6 points -4 in 20 games have been pivotal in his maturity!!!!!! Right. Hey kid. I know you're the #2 overall pick and we're sticking you with Weise, Lehtera and another 19 year old who's struggling all season... but we're going to send you back to Juniors where you'll learn nothing, be poorly coached, have your injuries misdiagnosed some more, so we can play crappier older players and convey the message that you're simply not good enough for the NHL.. BECAUSE THAT WILL DO WONDERS FOR YOUR CONFIDENCE. Keep drinking guys. Maybe it makes sense if you're lit. They benched him in the third for two games and have been inching his minutes back up. And guess what? IT WORKED. They've been winning. They've also had an improved PK which is important as well. The long story short is that technically there's no reason they can't still send him back to juniors, they'll just burn a year off his entry level contract. The fact is that he's LEARNING the NHL game. Maybe a year in the AHL would have been the thing for him. Too bad he couldn't do that. I'd love to see him go to the WJC so we can get a look at Vecchione, but I doubt that's happening either. So we might as well look on the bright side because I highly doubt he's going anywhere. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, King Knut said: Keep drinking guys. Maybe it makes sense if you're lit. not sure where I said he should go back to Jrs but feel free to put words in my mouth... my point is playing 8 mins a night with stiffs really is not helping him right now either. Playing WJs could increase his confidence so I am not totally against it. no matter what anyone says (I think @ruxpin may have said this before) Hextall had him penciled in the minute he was picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, King Knut said: Right. Hey kid. I know you're the #2 overall pick and we're sticking you with Weise, Lehtera and another 19 year old who's struggling all season... but we're going to send you back to Juniors where you'll learn nothing, be poorly coached, have your injuries misdiagnosed some more, so we can play crappier older players and convey the message that you're simply not good enough for the NHL.. BECAUSE THAT WILL DO WONDERS FOR YOUR CONFIDENCE. Keep drinking guys. Maybe it makes sense if you're lit. No offence King, but again, I've NEVER heard an NHL coach, GM or player say sending someone down to the minors or junior was detrimental to their development. On the other hand I've heard plenty of coaches, GMs and players say rushing them into the NHL has hurt their development considerably. So I'll side with the pros here, and not you. And it's one tournament...not a lifelong banishment. A tournament that pretty much everyone who's ever played in says was a great experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, murraycraven said: not sure where I said he should go back to Jrs but whatever... my point is playing 8 mins a night with stiffs really is not helping him right now either. That part was for Occam and his Emogi. I think playing 8 minutes a night doesn't bother me at all. He wasn't ready to dive into the NHL and the Flyers didn't have the roster to hold his hand (they could have put him between Giroux and Voracek if they really wanted him to look good his rookie year and I bet he would have). Playing those 8 minutes with sub par line mates is the thing that bugs me. Taylor Hall is simply ridiculously better than Weise or Lehtera. But is he better enough than Weise or Lehtera to explain why the Devils can have Hischier and Bratt playing their most minutes every night? Are Hischier and Bratt simply that much better than Weise and Lehtera? Why is Lindblom having so much trouble adjusting to the smaller ice and the north american game, but Bratt (who wasn't even in the same zip code as far as Swedish prospects go) is having a grand old time? These are the things that bug me. Is there a fundamental problem of development in the Flyers system at forward right now or are all of these just special and unique circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, King Knut said: where you'll learn nothing Thank you for my morning laugh. It don't get any better.... ...where 19 year olds go to NOT get any better wonder why they even have it... ...right??? C'mon bro you're just typing nonsense crap he is 19. You are telling me a kid who is 19 playing against other 19 year old and playing well wouldn't help his confidence??? You are out of your mind. He would be in the best place to play at the top of his game instead of 8 minutes a night in the NHL on the 3rd line where he gets benched late in the 3rd. Yeah coach thanks for the confidence you show in me by NOT even putting me out there. And as far as injury goes don't even get me started on the Flyers comical medical staff....who puts a guy on a plane with a GODDAMN punctured lung and almost kills him....really try harder next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, murraycraven said: no matter what anyone says (I think @ruxpin may have said this before) Hextall had him penciled in the minute he was picked. It was @radoran but yeah we know it's the same guy or (gal) !!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: No offence King, but again, I've NEVER heard an NHL coach, GM or player say sending someone down to the minors or junior was detrimental to their development. On the other hand I've heard plenty of coaches, GMs and players say rushing them into the NHL has hurt their development considerably. So I'll side with the pros here, and not you. And it's one tournament...not a lifelong banishment. A tournament that pretty much everyone who's ever played in says was a great experience. I agree with you on the tournament. And THEY SCREWED UP HIS HERNIA in juniors and had him playing on a bad one for half a season for no reason. This alone is reason to keep him away from them. Beyond that, it doesn't matter what you've ever heard or have never heard of... HE's HERE and he's not going anywhere. You might as well join me and try to start seeing the bright side of things because they're not going to change. Like you, I wish he could go to Juniors, but with the injury possibility I could see why they don't want to lend him, especially after what happened to Myers last year in Worlds or whatever that dumb tournament was called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, King Knut said: Playing those 8 minutes with sub par line mates is the thing that bugs me. Yeah well that is what you get can't have it both ways. It's what you think is best.........than playing on the top line in juniors and playing with great teammates of equal talent levels...because you know it will set him back a decade and all from your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, King Knut said: That part was for Occam and his Emogi. I think playing 8 minutes a night doesn't bother me at all. He wasn't ready to dive into the NHL and the Flyers didn't have the roster to hold his hand (they could have put him between Giroux and Voracek if they really wanted him to look good his rookie year and I bet he would have). Playing those 8 minutes with sub par line mates is the thing that bugs me. Taylor Hall is simply ridiculously better than Weise or Lehtera. But is he better enough than Weise or Lehtera to explain why the Devils can have Hischier and Bratt playing their most minutes every night? Are Hischier and Bratt simply that much better than Weise and Lehtera? Why is Lindblom having so much trouble adjusting to the smaller ice and the north american game, but Bratt (who wasn't even in the same zip code as far as Swedish prospects go) is having a grand old time? These are the things that bug me. Is there a fundamental problem of development in the Flyers system at forward right now or are all of these just special and unique circumstances? Patrick is to the day one yr older than my son so I can't imagine the difficulty adjusting to the NHL when he played very limited hockey over the last year. I am not in favor of putting him back in Jrs but I also think he probably should have not made the team. Given the fact that he was hurt prior to the season and played no hockey I also don't think him playing another year of Jr is a bad thing. IMO, development of a top prospect is paramount. The league has proven over and over again that rushing a prospect can hurt their development and not the other way around. I want him to go to WJs to get some confidence. As for Lindblom it is easy to point to one player and compare. Some prospects take longer than others. I think it is near-sighted to compare 2 players in the development phase. Players develop at different times and it is not always an upward trajectory. As for putting words in my mouth... reread you comment again b/c it was in response to both me and OR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: C'mon bro you're just typing nonsense crap he is 19. You are telling me a kid who is 19 playing against other 19 year old and playing well wouldn't help his confidence??? You are out of your mind. He would be in the best place to play at the top of his game instead of 8 minutes a night in the NHL on the 3rd line where he gets benched late in the 3rd. Yeah coach thanks for the confidence you show in me by NOT even putting me out there. And as far as injury goes don't even get me started on the Flyers comical medical staff....who puts a guy on a plane with a GODDAMN punctured lung and almost kills him....really try harder next time! It might help him feel better about himself, but if it bolsters his confidence it will be FALSE confidence because once he gets back here next year, he'll still be slower than the NHL competition, he'll still be weaker in the corners, and unless he's got better line mates miraculously, he will still be unprepared for the NHL game. He's not struggling because he's weak on the fundamentals of the game. He's not struggling because he's undersized. He's struggling because he's not used to how much better, bigger, faster and more aggressive the NHL competition is than the competition in juniors. What he NEEDS is AHL time to learn to play professional systems against slightly bigger, faster and more aggressive competition, but he's not allowed. In sending him back to juniors, the Flyers would simply get a very similar Nolan Patrick next summer that they would likely have to do all the same leg work with. Now don't get me wrong, I would love to send him to the WJC as well. That really seemed to do well for other players and it would give the Flyers the chance to play some youth that is likely MORE NHL ready than Patrick (Vecchione e.g.) There's still time for that though I know they say it won't happen... but at least complaining about that doesn't require a time machine to make itself relevant because ... oh yeah, in case i forgot to mention, HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah well that is what you get can't have it both ways. It's what you think is best.........than playing on the top line in juniors and playing with great teammates of equal talent levels...because you know it will set him back a decade and all from your thinking. I said it would set him back a year, possibly two (because he would be AHL eligible next fall and they'd be tempted... they'll be tempted as it is) , not a decade. Don't exaggerate. And he doesn't need to be playing against "equal talent" to get better, he needs to be playing against SUPERIOR talent to get better. Occ, seriously. He's a Flyer for the duration this year. It really doesn't matter whether you think I'm right in theory. Sad as it may be, the fact is I'm right in reality. He's here. He ain't going. Sorry. It's not all bad though! These are growing pains we were going to see no matter when he broke into the league. He's getting them out of the way now. It might have been better to get them out of the way with better line mates, and it definitely would have been better to do it in the AHL and ease him up. But that's not what happened because of the under 20 rule. Just try to see the bright side of it and you'll be a lot happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, King Knut said: Why is Lindblom having so much trouble adjusting to the smaller ice and the north american game, but Bratt (who wasn't even in the same zip code as far as Swedish prospects go) is having a grand old time? Dude no two prospects are the same. Some mature quicker than others. Some can just get lucky and have a good year. Jim Carey sure did....how did that work out for him??? I'll tell you he basically had one stellar year and a half won the Vezina and a gold medal and was later traded to Boston and was never the same crashed and burned....it can happen. All this after playing in college and then dominating in the AHL too. So no two prospects are the same....it is not an exact science no matter how much we want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, King Knut said: It might help him feel better about himself, but if it bolsters his confidence it will be FALSE confidence because once he gets back here next year, he'll still be slower than the NHL competition, he'll still be weaker in the corners, and unless he's got better line mates miraculously, he will still be unprepared for the NHL game. How in God's name do you know all this??? Are you asking your magic 8 ball or something....this is so crazy i can't/won't even comment on it....just crazy as f**k i tell ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, OccamsRazor said: Dude no two prospects are the same. Some mature quicker than others. Some can just get lucky and have a good year. Jim Carey sure did....how did that work out for him??? I'll tell you he basically had one stellar year and a half won the Vezina and a gold medal and was later traded to Boston and was never the same crashed and burned....it can happen. All this after playing in college and then dominating in the AHL too. So no two prospects are the same....it is not an exact science no matter how much we want it to be. No one said it was an exact science. It is however a kind of science, and I would love to hear some analytics on what Lindblom, Konecny & Patrick are faltering on that Hischier and Bratt aren't. I know jack about Bratt. Hischier I know what always touted as the far better skater than Patrick (which is why I always leaned toward him in that debate). I also know that Lindblom had some skating issues which is why he fell so deep in the draft... however, he didn't have any skating issues last spring in the AHL. He tore it up. And Konecny certainly doesn't have any skating issues... though he is undersized and doesn't seem to grasp his role defensively yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, King Knut said: Don't exaggerate. HA HA i'll follow your lead. PUFF PUFF PASS that **** and stop Bogarting it!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: How in God's name do you know all this??? Are you asking your magic 8 ball or something....this is so crazy i can't/won't even comment on it....just crazy as f**k i tell ya. I know a thing or two about talent development in general. But once again... the reality of the situation is that Patrick is here and he is more than likely staying here for the time being. Get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: HA HA i'll follow your lead. PUFF PUFF PASS that **** and stop Bogarting it!!!!! Got an emogi for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, King Knut said: I know a thing or two about talent development in general. But once again... the reality of the situation is that Patrick is here and he is more than likely staying here for the time being. Get used to it. I am use to it. I was when they played him for his 10th game. You need to get use to him not flourishing with 8 minutes a night. It could set him back a while. Guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, King Knut said: Got an emogi for that? Just for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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