Death, taxes and the Flyers playing like **** after Christmas

[Samifan]

All things you can count on!

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, Samifan said:

All things you can count on!

 

Yeah, pretty much.

[Samifan]

#Dynasty

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, Samifan said:

#Dynasty

 

 

Well can't break tradition!!!!

 

 

Got to make the other teams backup look good!!!!

[radoran]

Honestly they have to stop trying to get this "definitely a playoff team" Island of Misfit Toys into the playoffs and worry about getting better toys and improving the young ones they have (Patrick played eight minutes last night. Eight.)

 

This roster isn't doing much of anything. And I don't see a point where that is likely to change in the near future.

 

Quite frankly, Claude Giroux is the most invisible point per game player in the league. I remember the last time he took a game over and it's going on five years ago now. 

 

Oh, wait, I forgot about Voracek... Which is, you know, far too easy to do.

 

I saw a comment that they were three points ahead of Florida  and "needed the win" tonight. For what? To hold onto 8th in the Metropolitan? Seriously!?

 

Rolling Elliott out there over and over just might be better than playing Neuvirth. Fine. But talk about damning with faint praise. And let's recall Neuvirth is the guy they decided to re-sign.

 

No, Mason isn't any better. Great. He's just the guy they decided to go with before now. The guy who was part of what Some arojnd here called one of the bsst goalie tandems in the league at the start of last season.

 

No, seriously.

 

That light at the end of the tunnel is a train and we're all Wile E. Coyote.

 

I know I said hold onto Simmonds in another thread. Fine. Screw that. Trade all the things, take this down to rock bottom and start over.

 

What's that? They're already rock bottom in the division? Right. But at least they've got "the core" of this last place team under contract for another five years. 

 

#winning?

[ruxpin]

@radoran

 

I just noticed your "Favorite team" and "2nd Favorite" thing on the left under your screen name.  

God, your hockey life sucks.

 

Mine has Flyers & Senators.

Mine also sucks.

[radoran]

15 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

@radoran

 

I just noticed your "Favorite team" and "2nd Favorite" thing on the left under your screen name.  

God, your hockey life sucks.

 

Mine has Flyers & Senators.

Mine also sucks.

 

Honestly, I feel like I'm watching Vancouver at times.

 

And the record bears that out.

 

This meticulously crafted team is last in the division and a team that was patched together with a player from each team last season is leading the West with two games in hand.

 

I'm sick of the fool's gold we've been served. Sick of it. And the idea that they MIGHT be good three years from now is nonsense poppycock.

 

they've consistently signed the wrong players and dealt the wrong players and when they deal Simmonds for a handful of magic beans that will be borne out yet again.

 

And, Jesus, please don't get me started on $10M man Eichel...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

Island of Misfit Toys

 

 

That would be so funny if it weren't true.

 

1 hour ago, radoran said:

Quite frankly, Claude Giroux is the most invisible point per game player in the league. I remember the last time he took a game over and it's going on five years ago now. 

 

 

5 years ago that must be the last time he drove to the net then....because he is just a perimeter player now.

 

Any time he gets within 5 foot of the net he shoots or passes it nothing else doesn't even try to make a play with the puck anymore in close.

 

49 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'm sick of the fool's gold we've been served. Sick of it. And the idea that they MIGHT be good three years from now is nonsense poppycock.

 

I am tired to. Too tired to defend it, understand it or even watch it anymore. I just don't see any incremental growth to support there is any.

 

Sure there are some nice pieces on the team but they lack direction and any fire from the guys who are suppose to be showing/teaching them.

 

1 hour ago, radoran said:

Oh, wait, I forgot about Voracek... Which is, you know, far too easy to do.

 

And yeah this guy. I'm am so done with him.

 

And i know as soon as i stop typing this someone will come back with a "he is one of the top point getters this year" crap. Ok so what.

 

Dude does some of the most brain dead **** out there i have seen in years.

 

He is 1A the first guy i would try to move.

 

It just sucks i won't have anything else to watch the rest of the year. F**k baseball.

 

All right i'm done i am just fresh out of give-a-f**k!

 

Goodnight all.

[brelic]

I’m not sure i understand the Giroux criticism. Most invisible ppg player? He’s the only one that’s actually visible on the ice and one of a few players who actually makes things happen. 

 

You want to talk about invisible? Nolan Patrick. Rookie or not, if he was pencilled into the lineup, he needs to produce. He’s got 1 point in the last 13 games. That’s not acceptable for a #2/3 center, rookie or not. That’s why we have no secondary scoring. He’s been a line and possession killer so far. And when he is on the ice, he’s mostly invisible. Yes, he played 8 minutes last night. In 10 of the last 13 games, he’s hovered around 12 minutes a night - so there have been 3 games around the 8 minute TOI mark. He’s on pace for 17 points - disappointing any way you slice it for a #2 overall.*

 

Filppula hasn’t been much better. 5 points over the last 13 in about 17 minutes per night, often playing with one of the league’s leading point getters. 

 

Our middle six is centered by two underwhelming players. That’s why we’re not getting any secondary scoring.  Moving Giroux to wing has done wonders for his game and the new top line, but it has created a huge hole down the middle.

 

 

*Keep in mind I’m talking about the here and now. This is not a statement about future performance lol. 

[radoran]

25 minutes ago, brelic said:

I’m not sure i understand the Giroux criticism. Most invisible ppg player? He’s the only one that’s actually visible on the ice and one of a few players who actually makes things happen. 

 

You want to talk about invisible? Nolan Patrick. Rookie or not, if he was pencilled into the lineup, he needs to produce. He’s got 1 point in the last 13 games. That’s not acceptable for a #2/3 center, rookie or not. That’s why we have no secondary scoring. He’s been a line and possession killer so far. And when he is on the ice, he’s mostly invisible. Yes, he played 8 minutes last night. In 10 of the last 13 games, he’s hovered around 12 minutes a night - so there have been 3 games around the 8 minute TOI mark. He’s on pace for 17 points - disappointing any way you slice it for a #2 overall.*

 

Filppula hasn’t been much better. 5 points over the last 13 in about 17 minutes per night, often playing with one of the league’s leading point getters. 

 

Our middle six is centered by two underwhelming players. That’s why we’re not getting any secondary scoring.  Moving Giroux to wing has done wonders for his game and the new top line, but it has created a huge hole down the middle.

 

 

*Keep in mind I’m talking about the here and now. This is not a statement about future performance lol. 

 

He has four goals in the past 21 games. Is that the guy he is or is the 9 in 16 to start the season guy him? He's not terrible, but at this point he's the third Sedin twin and ask Vancouver how that played out for them. Remember when he was  hart finalist and had the "most points over a period of time until that wasn't true"? That's ages ago. Does he "do things"? Sure. Has he ever taken over a game in the past five years? I just don't remember it if so.

 

Agreed on Patrick - who allegedly "played his way onto the team". Is he really better off playing garbage minutes on a last place team than he would have been having a chance to dominate in junior? I just don't see it.

 

But your post describes the island of Misfit Toys perfectly. They have two of the most overpaid Finns in the league and an assortment of second rate "talent" playing forward. They built the team around two guys who simply don't score enough to justify the position. Not "points" with Daniel and Henrik - I mean claude and jake - passing to each other in losses.

 

You have two "top ten" points guys who are 45th and  - I'm not kidding - 133rd in goals. There are five PLAYERS with as many or more goals then them COMBINED.

 

And their goaltending remains woeful no matter how many times Bill Clement calls Elliott "their best player on the ice". Which, I mean, says volumes don't you think?

 

They have two rounds of playoffs in five years and are staring at another year without a real shot at competing for the playoffs, much less the Stanley Cup. It's arguably the worst stretch of hockey in franchise history and we're being sold a bill of goods about how they're about to be good. Again. And again. Soon. No, really.

 

Six points out of a wild card. Fine. Would you put them ahead of Pittsburgh in a chance to make a run at the playoffs? I'm not even sure they're better than the Rangers or the freaking islanders and that leaves them so far out of actual contention that you can't even see it from here.

 

It's not "Giroux's fault" but he's just not good enough to make it better and the team as a whole just isn't good enough either. 

 

That's the unfortunate fact. 

[murraycraven]

So glad I decided not to watch this one....    Felt like this would be a big ol' dud to watch.   

 

& also... What @radoran said in his earlier post.   Spot on IMO...

[murraycraven]

10 hours ago, radoran said:

Honestly they have to stop trying to get this "definitely a playoff team" Island of Misfit Toys into the playoffs and worry about getting better toys and improving the young ones they have (Patrick played eight minutes last night. Eight.)

 

And here come the Hakstol supporters of playing the 2nd overall pick 8 minutes a game... 

 

Great for his development 

 

Give the kid minutes and develop him.  He was not good enough to make the team in camp but St Ronnie penciled him in right away and traded Schenn as a result.   

 

And here is the thing w NP....   The kid has played limitex hockey over the past 2 years.   He is recovering from tough surgeries and had a rough start to the NHL.   Playing 8 minutes a night is doing nothing for his development...   Again, St Ronnie sold the fans a pile of **** when he kept him on this team out of camp ~ he was not good enough in the preseason. 

[radoran]

14 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

Give the kid minutes and develop him.  He was not good enough to make the team in camp but St Ronnie penciled him in right away and traded Schenn as a result.   

 

And that's another thing. All the guys that "needed a change of scenery" when they left Philadelphia? Fine. May have been the case.

 

But what does that say about "the scenery" IN PHILADELPHIA?

 

Scenery that, by all accounts, isn't going to change for five more years?

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

And here come the Hakstol supporters of playing the 2nd overall pick 8 minutes a game... 

 

Great for his development 

 

Here's the thing:  PLAY HIS ASS OFF. 

 

Give him 19-20 minutes. Good or bad, run him out there again the next game. And again. And again. 

 

What the flipping hell are you losing? Ice time for Lehtera? Filppula? Weise? 

 

He's suffering a little bit from the same thing Couturier did until this year:  crap wingers and worse coaching. 

 

The first handful of games, this team looked fast. Nearly without exception, we all commented on it.  Patrick looked like a rookie but he did show speed and he did show some creativity. 

 

What happened to all of that?  The speed just turned off. I know some injuries and jumbled lines, but it was night and day palpable. 

 

Speed doesn't fit whatever idiotic game plan Hakstol has? You bury the kid with crap on the bottom six? 

 

I buy the island of misfit toys thing. That's absolutely part of it. But I also blame the failure of the coach and his staff.  That, too, ultimately is on the GM. 

 

Honestly, this year is still close to what I was expecting in terms of record. But the compete level should be better. And I blame coach. And I blame the GM for the coach (and some personnel missteps). 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

And that's another thing. All the guys that "needed a change of scenery" when they left Philadelphia? Fine. May have been the case.

 

But what does that say about "the scenery" IN PHILADELPHIA?

 

Scenery that, by all accounts, isn't going to change for five more years?

Right? 

 

There are other examples, but the most glaring is Schenn.  

[flyercanuck]

12 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

 

 

 

I buy the island of misfit toys thing. That's absolutely part of it. But I also blame the failure of the coach and his staff.  That, too, ultimately is on the GM. 

. 

 

 

 So what are you saying? That Nolan Patrick really wanted to be a dentist?

 

 

[murraycraven]

22 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Here's the thing:  PLAY HIS ASS OFF. 

 

Give him 19-20 minutes. Good or bad, run him out there again the next game. And again. And again. 

 

What the flipping hell are you losing? Ice time for Lehtera? Filppula? Weise? 

 

He's suffering a little bit from the same thing Couturier did until this year:  crap wingers and worse coaching. 

 

The first handful of games, this team looked fast. Nearly without exception, we all commented on it.  Patrick looked like a rookie but he did show speed and he did show some creativity. 

 

What happened to all of that?  The speed just turned off. I know some injuries and jumbled lines, but it was night and day palpable. 

 

Speed doesn't fit whatever idiotic game plan Hakstol has? You bury the kid with crap on the bottom six? 

 

I buy the island of misfit toys thing. That's absolutely part of it. But I also blame the failure of the coach and his staff.  That, too, ultimately is on the GM. 

 

Honestly, this year is still close to what I was expecting in terms of record. But the compete level should be better. And I blame coach. And I blame the GM for the coach (and some personnel missteps). 

 

Agree 100 percent.   People like to not recognize this kid was not NHL ready just from a conditioning standpoint.   He literally lost over a season was on the shelf at the beginning of camp.   Now the kid is trying to get in game shape and learn the NHL game all while getting 8 minutes a game {I won't even get into TKs TOI}. 

 

Bad coaching and bad management from St Ronnie.   Everything about Patricks situation flies in the face of what Hextall preaches.    It is totally BS frankly and it is the exact reason this Organization is. Like groundhog day... 

[murraycraven]

This should tell you about this team (from a comment on HB).   Pathetic:

 

 

Going back to December 22nd of last season, the Flyers have played 82 games. 

They have a record of 33-36-13 good for 79 points. 

Thats terrible.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

This should tell you about this team (from a comment on HB).   Pathetic:

 

 

Going back to December 22nd of last season, the Flyers have played 82 games. 

They have a record of 33-36-13 good for 79 points. 

Thats terrible.

 

But their Corsi and fibbonacci numbers are good!

 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

Agree 100 percent.   People like to not recognize this kid was not NHL ready just from a conditioning standpoint.   He literally lost over a season was on the shelf at the beginning of camp.   Now the kid is trying to get in game shape and learn the NHL game all while getting 8 minutes a game {I won't even get into TKs TOI}. 

 

Bad coaching and bad management from St Ronnie.   Everything about Patricks situation flies in the face of what Hextall preaches.    It is totally BS frankly and it is the exact reason this Organization is. Like groundhog day... 

 

He’s not getting 8 minutes per game. He’s averaging over 12 for the season.

 

And those nights he’s gotten 8ish, he’s been one of the worst players on the ice. 

 

So what are you supposed to do? I mean, Hischier is averaging 15-16 per night, and he’s on the top line producing. Patrick doesn’t even look like he could produce on the top line - so why should he be given those minutes over Couturier, who is having a career year? He hasn’t looked any better between Jake and Raffl.

 

It’s increasingly clear that he’s not NHL ready. They made a mistake by keeping him. I’m sure he’ll be fine in the long run, and that ship has sailed, but this can certainly hurt a young player’s confidence. And his lack of foot speed has me worried a bit. At this point, you can’t blame conditioning - he’s just kinda slow. 

 

All in all, he’s playing like a 4th line forward on this team right now. 

 

We all knew this team would be mediocre with all these rookies in the lineup, and it seems like coaching hasn’t helped at all. Elliott has the longest straight game streak in the NHL. There’s no reason for this foolishness. And on top of that, would he really start Neuvirth against the league’s best team in his first game back from injury?

 

Hakstol is a hot mess too. I’m not absolving the players. It’s like Hakstol is playing to win and make the playoffs while the roster is constructed as a transitional one with building blocks for the future. The alignment is off.

 

 

[murraycraven]

49 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

He’s not getting 8 minutes per game. He’s averaging over 12 for the season.

 

And those nights he’s gotten 8ish, he’s been one of the worst players on the ice. 

 

So what are you supposed to do? I mean, Hischier is averaging 15-16 per night, and he’s on the top line producing. Patrick doesn’t even look like he could produce on the top line - so why should he be given those minutes over Couturier, who is having a career year? He hasn’t looked any better between Jake and Raffl.

 

It’s increasingly clear that he’s not NHL ready. They made a mistake by keeping him. I’m sure he’ll be fine in the long run, and that ship has sailed, but this can certainly hurt a young player’s confidence. And his lack of foot speed has me worried a bit. At this point, you can’t blame conditioning - he’s just kinda slow. 

 

All in all, he’s playing like a 4th line forward on this team right now. 

 

We all knew this team would be mediocre with all these rookies in the lineup, and it seems like coaching hasn’t helped at all. Elliott has the longest straight game streak in the NHL. There’s no reason for this foolishness. And on top of that, would he really start Neuvirth against the league’s best team in his first game back from injury?

 

Hakstol is a hot mess too. I’m not absolving the players. It’s like Hakstol is playing to win and make the playoffs while the roster is constructed as a transitional one with building blocks for the future. The alignment is off.

 

 

 

Nico and Patrick can't be compared.   He is playing top line minutes on a team that is actually playing really good hockey.   He has also been playing a lot more hockey over the past year while Nolan has been hurt.   Is Nicole more skilled IMO?   Absolutely, and that is why he was the #1 but to write this off after 1/2 a season is ridiculous.   It's not like we could have actually drafted Nico anyway. 

 

If Ron is true to his word Nolan would be back in Jr's but bc he had him penciled in as a starter before camp, knowing that he was recovering from a serious injury, he needs more minutes.    This is not a playoff team and if they are committed to giving this kid a roster spot give him minutes.    He is not going to get any confidence sitting the pine.   And yes, he is averaging [nearly] 12 mins a game yet Wealthy averages more and has yet to score an even strength goal this year.  

 

If Patrick is your future then he needs to get minutes IMO.   But hey if they feel they are a true playoff team this year then we have more to be worried about. 

 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

 

Nico and Patrick can't be compared.   He is playing top line minutes on a team that is actually playing really good hockey.   He has also been playing a lot more hockey over the past year while Nolan has been hurt.   Is Nicole more skilled IMO?   Absolutely, and that is why he was the #1 but to write this off after 1/2 a season is ridiculous.   It's not like we could have actually drafted Nico anyway. 

 

If Ron is true to his word Nolan would be back in Jr's but bc he had him penciled in as a starter before camp, knowing that he was recovering from a serious injury, he needs more minutes.    This is not a playoff team and if they are committed to giving this kid a roster spot give him minutes.    He is not going to get any confidence sitting the pine.   And yes, he is averaging [nearly] 12 mins a game yet Wealthy averages more and has yet to score an even strength goal this year.  

 

If Patrick is your future then he needs to get minutes IMO.   But hey if they feel they are a true playoff team this year then we have more to be worried about. 

 

 

I think they can be compared. Obviously, they are different players, but they can be compared as to their NHL readiness. Hischier was contributing from the preseason on. He didn’t start on the top line but worked his way there through his play. 

 

Patrick has done the opposite, and is getting 2nd line opportunities when his play doesn’t warrant it. 

 

I’m not writing him off. But it’s fair to say Patrick is being outplayed by Laughton. That won’t be the case long-term,  but it is the case right now, which is a fair observation. 

 

I get what you’re saying that if he is the future, he needs minutes. The issue I have with that is that he hasn’t even shown he belongs on the 3rd line, let alone 2nd line. Weal plays wing and the occasional stint as a C. Patrick just plays C, which can explain some TOI differences. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Well one thing is for sure he is here and isn't going to be sent back.

 

So play him more. He should be getting 14-16 minutes a night period.

 

F**K THE SEASON!

 

Give him more minutes and let him play at no less than the 2nd line center production be damned....if this team is going to miss the playoffs the way it looks let him at least develop. 

 

And sure he may struggle but you just have to stick with it.

 

They won't play the goddamn backup up goalie so by the time Mach rolls around Elliott should be coming apart at the seams anyways.

 

So F**K it trade everyone you can.

 

This will be just a another season without playoffs.

 

So let the kids of the future play as much as they can.

[murraycraven]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I think they can be compared. Obviously, they are different players, but they can be compared as to their NHL readiness. Hischier was contributing from the preseason on. He didn’t start on the top line but worked his way there through his play. 

 

Patrick has done the opposite, and is getting 2nd line opportunities when his play doesn’t warrant it. 

 

I’m not writing him off. But it’s fair to say Patrick is being outplayed by Laughton. That won’t be the case long-term,  but it is the case right now, which is a fair observation. 

 

I get what you’re saying that if he is the future, he needs minutes. The issue I have with that is that he hasn’t even shown he belongs on the 3rd line, let alone 2nd line. Weal plays wing and the occasional stint as a C. Patrick just plays C, which can explain some TOI differences. 

 

 

 

Sorry but you truly believe Nolan should have made this team based on his preseason play?    I'm sorry but that just is not true.   He was nothing more than "meh" and clearly trying to find hi conditioning and game. 

 

He should have went back to Jr given his injuries and his absence of play

 Again, St Ronnie had him penciled in the lineup before he was even drafted.   

 

I completely respect your opinion and usually am in total agreement with you but this topic we just disagree on...   Has he been meh?   Yup...   Has Hak really given hi. And opportunity to play out of the meh?   No.... 

[Jam1986]

6 hours ago, murraycraven said:

This should tell you about this team (from a comment on HB).   Pathetic:

 

 

Going back to December 22nd of last season, the Flyers have played 82 games. 

They have a record of 33-36-13 good for 79 points. 

Thats terrible.

Hextall blowing this team. Tk and Patrick need more seasoning. Simmons is not worth 6 or 7 mil. Jake. G same thing.