Mrazek traded to the Flyers

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I think that's accurate. Really just someone to play out this year to give the team a chance to compete. I don't think there's a possibility they'll resign him. They have to do $4 million just to qualify him and given recent history and other personnel salary needs upcoming, I just don't see Hextall dedicating that kind of salary to that position. 

 

If he plays well, I think $4M is pretty cheap for a starting goaltender. I'm sure they can find a way to make things work - that part doesn't worry me with Hextall. He seems to be the anti-Homer when it comes to actually understanding the cap and finances.

 

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

If he plays well, I think $4M is pretty cheap for a starting goaltender. I'm sure they can find a way to make things work - that part doesn't worry me with Hextall. He seems to be the anti-Homer when it comes to actually understanding the cap and finances.

 

I actually agree. And if they can move Neuvirth it's really not that huge for a year "show me" contract.  Even a 2 year wouldn't be horrible. They'd just let Elliott go next June and bring up a kid or a cheaper back up. 

 

First, I want to see Mrazek not be Mrazek. 

 

@yave1964, is it possible the Wings brought Mrazek up too soon? 

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

With Stolarz missing nearly an entire year I don't see him being in the NHL next season unless due to injury of either Elliot or Mrazek.  

 

Don't count him out so soon.

 

In fact if Mrazek lites it on fire he could (sure highly unlikely) Stolie could be Mazek' backup and the Flyers could move both Elliott and Neuvy (that would free up 5.25 mill) and they could turn around and qualify Mrazek at 4.5 mill and hand Stolie a deal for say around 1 mill. So still only have 5.5 mill tied up in net.

 

Crazier things have happened. 

 

Teams who will need a backup next year as of right now:

 

Dallas

Isles

Canes

Devils

Avs

Sabres

Montreal

Rags

Bruins

Blues

 

Sure some of those teams could sign their own free agents back but Flyers will have some good options at the draft to gets some pick for Elliott and Neuvy if they chose to do something like this.

 

I'm not saying they will but they will have options.

 

 

[brelic]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I actually agree. And if they can move Neuvirth it's really not that huge for a year "show me" contract.  Even a 2 year wouldn't be horrible. They'd just let Elliott go next June and bring up a kid or a cheaper back up. 

 

First, I want to see Mrazek not be Mrazek. 

 

@yave1964, is it possible the Wings brought Mrazek up too soon? 

 

Yeah, I hear ya. He's got about 20 games to show us what he's got. Really, though, other than last season, his numbers have been very good. Even his numbers this year - which people consider bad - are like Elliott's. And the Flyers are a lot better than the Wings.

 

People talk about his off-ice issues, but that stuff can sort itself out. He's not Evander Kane lol.

 

As a side note, I heard on SOP Radio that a part of Sanheim's demotion was off-ice related. This is from a source in the know. So, you have an immature 21 year old kid that just wasn't ready for the professional life of the NHL. I'm sure it happens more than we know.

 

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

And if they can move Neuvirth it's really not that huge for a year "show me" contract.

 

 

Exactly if just for this conversation's sake they could trade Neuvy to the Yotes to backup Raanta he would be an up grade over Wedgewood right now once he is healthy. 

[yave1964]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I actually agree. And if they can move Neuvirth it's really not that huge for a year "show me" contract.  Even a 2 year wouldn't be horrible. They'd just let Elliott go next June and bring up a kid or a cheaper back up. 

 

First, I want to see Mrazek not be Mrazek. 

 

@yave1964, is it possible the Wings brought Mrazek up too soon? 

No he won a Calder Cup with the Griffins as a cocky brash kid,  I loved him in Grand Rapids, he earned his shot and ran with itunto he seemed to fall apart two years ago. Whispers are he drinks, whispers are that he and Howard hated each other and that Blashill didn't like him. It could be a case of when you have two goalies you have none and he just needs and deserves his shot. He doesn't lack for confidence and the talent is there, playing behind a putrid Detroit D he may find new life with your boys. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, yave1964 said:

No he won a Calder Cup with the Griffins as a cocky brash kid,  I loved him in Grand Rapids, he earned his shot and ran with itunto he seemed to fall apart two years ago. Whispers are he drinks, whispers are that he and Howard hated each other and that Blashill didn't like him. It could be a case of when you have two goalies you have none and he just needs and deserves his shot. He doesn't lack for confidence and the talent is there, playing behind a putrid Detroit D he may find new life with your boys. 

 

 

Hey question........so who will backup Howard now??

 

Not familiar with your goalie system.

 

Maybe we could interest you in Neuvy at the draft!!! 

[yave1964]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Hey question........so who will backup Howard now??

 

Not familiar with your goalie system.

 

Maybe we could interest you in Neuvy at the draft!!! 

Jared Coreau is a behemoth, a giant of a man in net, he is not much of a prospect but okay as a backup and will do for the next year and a a half. He helps clarify our goalie situation as instead of two starts who don't like each other we have a clear pecking order.

[OccamsRazor]

So looking at Cap Friendly with Elliott and Neuvy on IR it looks like Flyers have 7 mill in cap space so could they make another move and utilize some of that??? 

 

Make me want to say...

 

 

 

...that has to be wrong or they can use all that...right??

[RJ8812]

Mrazek has no leverage to ask for more and he knows he won't get more than his QO in the open market.

[brelic]

From Meltzer:

 

Allegedly, coachability issues and a high-maintenance presence in the locker room contributed to the Red Wings souring on Mrazek amid his roller coaster performances. Craving a chance to become an undisputed number one goalie, Marzek supposedly chafed over splitting playing time with Jimmy Howard.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

From Meltzer:

 

Allegedly, coachability issues and a high-maintenance presence in the locker room contributed to the Red Wings souring on Mrazek amid his roller coaster performances. Craving a chance to become an undisputed number one goalie, Marzek supposedly chafed over splitting playing time with Jimmy Howard.

 

It is why they wouldn't trade a 3rd for him....they knew there were some issues there...it is why Ron refused to trade him straight up for a 3rd round pick. He wanted some protection in case this gamble goes south....worse case you're out a 4th round pick.

 

Me likey this insurance.

 

Smart GM.

 

Best case he leads them deep (extreme case to a Cup becoming the hockey version of Nick Foles)...

 

..and Elliott and Neuvy are traded for ********** fill in the blank.

[RJ8812]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

It is why they wouldn't trade a 3rd for him....they knew there were some issues there...it is why Ron refused to trade him straight up for a 3rd round pick. He wanted some protection in case this gamble goes south....worse case you're out a 4th round pick.

 

Me likey this insurance.

 

Smart GM.

 

Best case he leads them deep (extreme case to a Cup becoming the hockey version of Nick Foles)...

 

..and Elliott and Neuvy are traded for ********** fill in the blank.

 

They aren't going to trade both Elliot and Neuvirth if they decide to extend Mrazek. It would be one or the other, likely Neuvirth 

[OccamsRazor]

And realistically Elliott could be done for the year he was given 6 week time of recovery but it was a core muscle those take time to get back to 100%. So we may not see him till next camp/preseason worse case.

 

 

 

Soit may come down to Mrazek vs. Neuvy....

 

...may the best Czech win!!!!!!

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

 

They aren't going to trade both Elliot and Neuvirth if they decide to extend Mrazek. It would be one or the other, likely Neuvirth 

 

You don't know that.

[RJ8812]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You don't know that.

It's one or the other that would get moved, not both. Makes little sense to move both. If Mrazek falters next season (if they re-sign him) they have a goalie capable of stepping in (Elliot)

 

The Flyers know what they get with Elliot, who is likely very well liked in the locker room and we already know how much Hextall likes those locker room guys 

[OccamsRazor]

Hope this trade end s up working more like Peter Forsberg and not Petr Nedved!!!! 

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, RJ8812 said:

It's one or the other that would get moved, not both. Makes little sense. If Mrazek falters next season (if they re-sign him, they have a goalie capable of stepping in (Elliot)

 

The Flyers know what they get with Elliot, who is likely very well liked in the locker room and we already know how much Hextall likes those locker room guys 

 

Yeah you're speculating.

 

No one is saying what will happen just what could.

 

You don't know what will happen.

 

He hasn't even played a game yet. 

 

Prove it!

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, yave1964 said:

And last thought on the deal, Mrazek has been stuck trying to play net with one of the worst defenses in the game (hard truth froma wings fan) in front of him.

 

 

Yeah no doubt my how far you guys have fallen...

 

...and now he goes to playing in front of a Norris candidate!!!!!!!

 

 

#theCupisours

[OccamsRazor]

Elliott last two years of playoff stats vs Mrazek's.

 

Elliott

 

15-16 9-9 2.44 gaa 921% 1 SO

16-17 0-4 3.89 gaa 880%

 

Mrazek

 

15-16 1-2 1.36 gaa 945% 1 SO

16-17 3-4 2.11 gaa 925% 2 SO

 

No matter what Neuvy is as good as gone.

[OccamsRazor]

A Red Wing's fans opinion on the trade:

 

@yave1964

 

Mixed. Mrazek is a divisive topic (just like all Wings goalies in my lifetime have been, aside from Hasek in 2002.) The arc of his NHL career so far has been good-bordering-on-great for a season and a half, then abysmal last year, and now crazy streaky this year. I try to look at the "big picture" when it comes to goalies since even good ones have bad years from time to time, and Mrazek's career numbers suggest he's about league average. But man, it's been a roller coaster getting there.

Personally, I'm irritated and even a little sad about the move, but I'm not completely objective here -- I live in Grand Rapids, where Mrazek won an AHL championship, so he's always been one of my favorites.

That said, Mrazek was the only goalie in the system who had any real shot at being a high level goalie any time in the near term future. Howard is old and is what he is (until he starts getting way worse, which could be anytime now). Coreau and McCollum are journeymen at best. Machovsky is 24 and until this trade was stuck in the ECHL. They've got a 21-year-old who is a backup in Switzerland. It's not pretty.

I get why the trade was necessary in context. There were surely no takers for Howard. They probably decided they couldn't afford to qualify Mrazek, carry two goalies for $9+ million next year, and resign all their young forwards. Considering how awful the goalie market is generally, the fact that they could have lost him for nothing to Vegas, and they'd probably have lost him for nothing next offseason if they didn't trade him now, two conditional picks is nothing to sneeze at.

But you can file it under the list of "necessary" sacrifice trades that are the continuing fallout from Ken Holland's complete roster mismanagement over the last several years. It was necessary only because the team spent so extravagantly and foolishly on mediocre support players during the last gasps of the playoff streak, and has built a roster that is somehow both one of the worst in the league AND in cap hell for the next several years. If the team had begun the rebuild a year or two ago, instead of being dragged into it kicking and screaming, they could have easily qualified Mrazek, kept both goalies another year, walked away from one or both afterward. Instead they have to give up early on useful players while dead weight like Abdelkader, DeKeyser, Ericsson and Howard grind out their stupid contracts.
 

This just to add to our fellow Red Wing fans here too.

[flyer4ever]

Welcome to the goalie graveyard Peter Mrazek. All the best to you. 

[vis]

Good thoughts in this thread.  I think the consensus is that this was a good trade by Hextall, particularly since he was in a tough spot.  I think he got the goaltender with the most "upside" while leaving himself flexibility down the line.

 

Barring a crash, it seems they will end up paying at least a 3rd for Mrazek, which was the ask by Detroit per earlier reports.  That seems reasonable.  I think it's fair that it bumps to a 2nd if they reach the conference finals and Mrazek has won 75% of the games that got them there.  Again, that be would be worth it (though perhaps unlikely).  

 

In addition, Hextall leaves himself some flexibility for down the line.  If he works out, then for a 2019 3rd the Flyers could qualify him and negotiate a longer term deal if they think he could be a bridge to Carter Hart or not qualify him and negotiate with him anyway if he wouldn't get that much from another team in UFA.  Either way, that seems reasonable for a 3rd rounder if they think he's worth a longer term deal.  Or they could trade his RFA rights to a team that wants him long term.  Or just not resign him and let him become a UFA.  And if he doesn't resign him, he's got Elliott, Neuvirth and Stolarz heading into next year -- which was probably the plan in the first place.

 

Obviously the hard part will be deciding whether Mrazek warrants a longer term deal.  Even if he plays well, you worry a little about streakiness.  And his demeanor if you believe the rumors -- especially if Elliott is still on the scene and Stolarz/Hart are coming up.  Should be interesting if they sign him.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, vis said:

 If he works out, then for a 2019 3rd the Flyers could qualify him and negotiate a longer term deal if they think he could be a bridge to Carter Hart or not qualify him and negotiate with him anyway if he wouldn't get that much from another team in UFA.  Either way, that seems reasonable for a 3rd rounder if they think he's worth a longer term deal.  Or they could trade his RFA rights to a team that wants him long term.  Or just not resign him and let him become a UFA.  And if he doesn't resign him, he's got Elliott, Neuvirth and Stolarz heading into next year -- which was probably the plan in the first place.

 

Exactly. Options........unlike what Homer would do by painting himself into a corner....

 

 

...smart move Ron!

[brelic]

Some discussion on the trade...

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/HockeyBuzz-Hotstove/Evaluating-the-Petr-Mrazek-trade-between-the-Flyers-and-Red-Wings/187/91134

 

Seems to favour the Flyers pretty unanimously. OF course, the Wings are getting nothing but magic beans, so who knows? If they pick up a Gostisbehere, they did good, and so did we for our needs at the time.